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What is Jake Gardiner??

what is Jake Gardiner?

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therealkoho

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,068
8,233
the Prior
thewave said:
The OT play, sure. No harm no foul, but that play was not as bad as people think. The ref jumped into the puck and it was a gift for one of the best players in the game. The fact he even recovered as well as he did was noteworthy. If it happened to Polak, Carrick etc you know they are twisting out of shape.

Unfortunate hockey play, he could have done better, sure but he very easily could have recovered worse.

Was Polak actually sweeping the ice there??
Click to expand...

don't totally disagree the deflect of the linesman was unfortunate, it was the lack of engagement with Sequin that was the problem, all he had to do was lean on him to keep him from getting to the rebound but he drifted back flat-footed and watched him pass, what was he hoping was going to happen?

it's not just these isolated incidents, it's the continuing cycle of these kind of mental errors that happen game in and game out, 40 pts is great but it doesn't make up for giving 40 back, to me he has the capability of being a great second pairing guy, but the brain cramps just keep on coming and that keeps him in the category of meh!
 
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thewave

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,266
10,153
therealkoho said:
don't totally disagree the deflect of the linesman was unfortunate, it was the lack of engagement with Sequin that was the problem, all he had to do was lean on him to keep him from getting to the rebound but he drifted back flat-footed and watched him pass, what was he hoping was going to happen?

it's not just these isolated incidents, it's the continuing cycle of these kind of mental errors that happen game in and game out, 40 pts is great but it doesn't make up for giving 40 back, to me he has the capability of being a great second pairing guy, but the brain cramps just keep on coming and that keeps him in the category of meh!
Click to expand...

I can see that perspective but I have to give a by on the ref deflecting. That's really hard to recover. OT sure, not good but again it happens. He is still +6 so not 40/40 and his partners have all struggled, but when put with Hainsey vs tougher comp, he did better.

He is certainly an enigma and a hard read but I agree with Babcock. His skills are "high high high". He is shifty deceptive and I think some of the weird stuff is his deceptions gone wrong.

Note: Dermott is and has been stealing some of Jakes patterns because similar skill sets. Head fakes, sideways skating. Nice homage and working well.
 
Duke Silver

Duke Silver

Truce?
Jun 4, 2008
8,610
1,942
Toronto/St. John's
thewave said:
The OT play, sure. No harm no foul, but that play was not as bad as people think. The ref jumped into the puck and it was a gift for one of the best players in the game. The fact he even recovered as well as he did was noteworthy. If it happened to Polak, Carrick etc you know they are twisting out of shape.

Unfortunate hockey play, he could have done better, sure but he very easily could have recovered worse.

Was Polak actually sweeping the ice there??
Click to expand...

Polak is the right-side defenceman and Seguin is coming down the left side. How is Seguin his problem? Polak has his man (Ritchie) and has put himself between Ritchie and McElhinney on the right side of the net, taking away the pass. The rebound comes out and now all of a sudden Seguin has gone unimpeded to the front of the net. Polak's stuck now between covering his man (Ritchie) and having to compensate for Jake's lack of box-out, waves at the puck desperately but is not close enough, Seguin pots it.

You literally have me defending Polak here because you fail to concede Gardiner was the biggest problem on this play. This entire play dies with a cross-check to Seguin's chest.

I don't buy the excuse that Gardiner didn't have enough time to recover. The puck was picked up 10 feet outside the blueline and the shot isn't even taken until the top of the circles. Gardiner is engaged with Seguin at that point, even though he's kind of drifting into the corner?
 
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mulefarm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2011
1,385
365
therealkoho said:
don't totally disagree the deflect of the linesman was unfortunate, it was the lack of engagement with Sequin that was the problem, all he had to do was lean on him to keep him from getting to the rebound but he drifted back flat-footed and watched him pass, what was he hoping was going to happen?

it's not just these isolated incidents, it's the continuing cycle of these kind of mental errors that happen game in and game out, 40 pts is great but it doesn't make up for giving 40 back, to me he has the capability of being a great second pairing guy, but the brain cramps just keep on coming and that keeps him in the category of meh!
Click to expand...

Are you just randomly stating he gives 40 back, or do you have something to back up your facts?
 
Nithoniniel

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
This discussion is starting remind me of when I discussed with someone who was seriously arguing that Gardiner caused more goals against than he was even on the ice for.

It's like we should throw out the actual results and judge him based on the impression of some parts of his game and what results we think they might result in. And there's no need. It's already there to be looked at. We don't have to wonder if Gardiner can be a good top four d-man without bleeding goals against. He's done that for years and years now. We don't have to like everything about him, but there's an ocean of gray between that and just ignoring... well, reality.
 
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Duke Silver

Duke Silver

Truce?
Jun 4, 2008
8,610
1,942
Toronto/St. John's
mulefarm said:
Are you just randomly stating he gives 40 back, or do you have something to back up your facts?
Click to expand...

His point is that it always feels like one step forward, one step back.

There isn't a metric for directly establishing credit for goals for and blame for goals against so obviously speaking in conceptual terms. Don't focus on the number, focus on the point.
 
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connormcmuffin

connormcmuffin

Registered User
Feb 17, 2018
1,080
424
therealkoho said:
i pointed that out in my post so thanks for the reiteration

problem is if you want to be a SC champ that's a guy you may not trust in the line-up with 20+minutes

and no I DO NOT WANT TO "LET HIM WALK" i have no idea how your fevered mind came up with that, but it's a fabrication, what I do want to do is move him and upgrade
Click to expand...

Wasn't even responding to your post, why are you going full sperg on me? Pop a riddilin brah
 
The Hanging Jowl

The Hanging Jowl

Registered User
Apr 2, 2017
10,416
11,620
Nithoniniel said:
This discussion is starting remind me of when I discussed with someone who was seriously arguing that Gardiner caused more goals against than he was even on the ice for.

It's like we should throw out the actual results and judge him based on the impression of some parts of his game and what results we think they might result in. And there's no need. It's already there to be looked at. We don't have to wonder if Gardiner can be a good top four d-man without bleeding goals against. He's done that for years and years now. We don't have to like everything about him, but there's an ocean of gray between that and just ignoring... well, reality.
Click to expand...

I like Gardiner lately, I think he's having a great second half and that's fantastic. That doesn't mean I can't ponder and discuss the strange brain cramps he has from time to time.
 
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LeafingTheWay

LeafingTheWay

Registered User
May 31, 2014
6,726
1,855
Duke Silver said:
Polak is the right-side defenceman and Seguin is coming down the left side. How is Seguin his problem? Polak has his man (Ritchie) and has put himself between Ritchie and McElhinney on the right side of the net, taking away the pass. The rebound comes out and now all of a sudden Seguin has gone unimpeded to the front of the net. Polak's stuck now between covering his man (Ritchie) and having to compensate for Jake's lack of box-out, waves at the puck desperately but is not close enough, Seguin pots it.

You literally have me defending Polak here because you fail to concede Gardiner was the biggest problem on this play. This entire play dies with a cross-check to Seguin's chest.

I don't buy the excuse that Gardiner didn't have enough time to recover. The puck was picked up 10 feet outside the blueline and the shot isn't even taken until the top of the circles. Gardiner is engaged with Seguin at that point, even though he's kind of drifting into the corner?
Click to expand...

It was entirely his fault and he should have boxed him out. But what Gardiner does is different usually. He usually gets very close on 1-on-1s not allowing the shooter to have any shot (by using his active stick), BUT if he knows he can't prevent the shot he quickly gets out of the way to not the screen goalie. This way the goalie gets a full view of the shot, and 9.5/10 times the goaltender doesn't let a massive rebound like that (Rebound right back to where it came from). That's what you saw in that play, if you watch the replay and look at right around where Seguin takes the shot. Again, I agree he should have been quicker on the rebound but just wanted to let you know about the above ^.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,751
11,324
therealkoho said:
maybe it's me dude but the majority of his pizzas seem to end up in our net
Click to expand...
Funny, I've read the exact opposite many times on here to try and explain his string stats.

Duke Silver said:
I don't buy the excuse that Gardiner didn't have enough time to recover. The puck was picked up 10 feet outside the blueline and the shot isn't even taken until the top of the circles. Gardiner is engaged with Seguin at that point, even though he's kind of drifting into the corner?
Click to expand...
The problem is his gap is shot by the bounce, so he's in no man's land.

He gives the middle once Seguin commits to a shot, so he's not a screen, but that comes at a big cost if there's a rebound (or a snipe).

I'd rather see him force Seguin, but that's still a bad play since it's a contain situations.
 
Last edited:
81Leafs50

81Leafs50

Registered User
May 14, 2010
3,170
1,276
Toronto
Ziggdiezan said:
How many defenders put up the points that he does as well as the tough QoC, ice time and possession stats while getting paid less than 5 million? Excluding ELC defenders of course.

He is going to get paid more than 5 million and if he was willing to take 5 million AAV I would lock him up long term without hesitation
Click to expand...

I don't see it happening.

Gary Nylund said:
I hope we lock him up and I'm willing to pay a fair price to do so (4M won't do it). No more own rentals though please, if they can't or won't sign him than please trade him.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they will.
 
LoveRealHockey

LoveRealHockey

Registered User
Sep 13, 2010
145
77
Gardiner has good offensive vision e.g. stretch passes, and uses his skating ability well offensively to setup offensive opportunities. I like his shot, when he uses it as well. However, he is a mediocre to weak defensive player. Anyone watching the games can see that. He doesn't engage physically and almost always loses the puck in the corner or makes a bone-head pass or decision in the defensive zone. He needs a very strong defensive dman as his partner or it would be a disaster back in our own end. If the leafs maintain possession in the o-zone he looks spectacular at times. If we get pinned in the d-zone I cringe watching him.
 
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