What is Jake Gardiner??

[Visnovsky]

Gardiner is a second pairing d-man, who is completely replacable.

Toronto will hopefully upgrade him in the summer, for a more defensive minded d, which will give Dermott a bigger role and Zaitsev gets a more defensive partner in Hainsey, which will cause his numbers to rise.

 

[Menzinger]

I suspect a big variable in whether or not he’s resigned is if the Leafs opt to sign a big name UFA.

Harder to find the money for him if you’re paying JT 10+ million

 

[therealkoho]

It's not, really. There are so many areas of the game where Gardiner shows off terrific hockey iq. His vision in the offensive zone is terrific, and despite what people say, there's probably not a d-man on this team that has more smart solutions to forechecking problems in his own zone than Gardiner. Just watch how many times he manages to make a simple but well-calculated play to get the puck to someone who can move it out. Those are things that count too. It's not all about error rate.

but it's the same bone-headed errors on rinse cycle and repeat, when Jake gives himself that moment to think that's when the bad stuff happens, you can see the indecision in his body language and then the inevitable bad decision that follows...

does he make some great plays, sure no doubt he's got some good offensive IQ....

Bad Stuff

breaking up a cycle by fishing around with his stick does not solve any problems nor break's any cycle up but man it sure creates problems for his team-mates, not using his body when it will break up a play quite easily, or nullify a scoring chance also creates problems for his team-mates, nobody gets beaten to the outside more then Gardiner which creates problems for the goaltender when the attacker has momentum going around the net, a quick push on the inside shoulder of the attacker turns that play into the corner every time and allows the defense to set up.

I didn't mind those tendencies when he first started making regular appearance's if only because of his potential offensive abilities, elite skater, above average puck handling accurate shot. I really thought he'd polish all those defensive deficiencies out of his game and become a 50-55 points a year guy and if he was I could overlook the other stuff. He's 42nd in total scoring amongst Dmen over the last 5 years which is .4PPG, which is a nice accomplishment, 51st in GP 47th in PPTOI 46th in PPpts.

Just my opinion but he doesn't bring enough offense to make up for the lack of defense

 

[ShaneFalco]

I suspect a big variable in whether or not he’s resigned is if the Leafs opt to sign a big name UFA.

Harder to find the money for him if you’re paying JT 10+ million

Yup. I would think either it's him or Zaitsev that goes

 

[Nithoniniel]

breaking up a cycle by fishing around with his stick does not solve any problems nor break's any cycle up but man it sure creates problems for his team-mates

I saw stats on this a year ago or so, where Gardiner had great numbers for contested pucks in a cycle, and his success rate was just fine as well.

"Fishing around with his stick" to me looks a lot like keeping his stick in position to cover passing lanes. Something I know better minds than me has illustrated by comparing how when he goes after a player with puck control, his stick is still on the ice and covering a lane. Compared to guys like Polak that goes after guys with their stick up, which gives them an easy way to keep the puck moving even if they take a hit to do so.

nobody gets beaten to the outside more then Gardiner

Oh come on, this is the kind of thing people say when they really don't watch more than one team. But yeah, Gardiner gets beat on the outside a lot. A large part of that is because he keeps a tight gap, which is why he prevents so many controlled entries. Something that has a tremendous effect on defense.

There was a nice article a while ago that highlighted how rare his ability to give support to his partner at attempted zone entries is. When teams attack our RD with speed, forcing him to take depth, Gardiner often swings over to take away space and time and force a dump in. Very few defenders do that so successfully, and the results have apparently been great.

Don't really disagree with your other problems with him but:

Just my opinion but he doesn't bring enough offense to make up for the lack of defense

I mean, how many years of Gardiner in a top four role do we need where all results with him on the ice are positive, especially from a defensive standpoint, before we start to accept that his qualities does in fact make up for his weaknesses?

 

[connormcmuffin]

Gardiner is literally a litmus test to point out dumb fans, he's the reason Phaneuf got traded, he's 3rd in the league in 5 on 5 minutes, his numbers fancy and regular are great across the stats line.

Gardiner has never had a quality partner, his cup of tea with Hainsey made him look superb, obviously Gardiner still has his limitations in that he needs sheltered minutes. He's not a perfect defenseman but easily a top 60 defenseman in the league.

Personally have always wanted to see him and Rielly as a pair.

And for everyone that bashes him, how many better defenseman on the Leafs have you see in the cap ear? Maybe Kaberle, definitely Rielly and.... you want to let him walk?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Guy has a great offensive game.

At this point he is just lazy if he can't be a good defensive player consistently.

If you can't be trusted defensively, why are you in the top 4?

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

back to back 40 point seasons last dman to do that for the leafs was kubina ten years ago...
hes a good dman, defensively too.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If you can't be trusted defensively, why are you in the top 4?

Well, since he puts up great defensive results over many years in a top 4, why would anyone say he can't be trusted in that role?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Well, since he puts up great defensive results over many years in a top 4, why would anyone say he can't be trusted in that role?

I know high level he is a good shot suppressor, but what happens when we dig a little deeper into puck/board battles, take aways, breaking up plays in the defensive zone?

Are there stats on that?

Or is he just a good puck carrier majority of the time..

 

[Leaf Fans]

A good defenseman who gets the Larry Murphy treatment here. Mike Babcock says he has elite hockey sense.
Babcock: Gardiner ‘has elite hockey sense’ - Article - TSN

 

[Nithoniniel]

I know high level he is a good shot suppressor, but what happens when we dig a little deeper into puck/board battles, take aways, breaking up plays in the defensive zone?

Are there stats on that?

Sure, and he's not as bad at those as you'd think, as I went into earlier.

But more importantly, your assertion was that he can't be trusted defensively. You can't judge that on just a few details, unless the argument is that you need to check all boxes to be trustworthy defensively. But in that case, there are not many who you can trust.

If you want to argue that he's not as well-rounded as you'd like, then that's another discussion. That's where it makes sense to look at the details like that.

 

[Duke Silver]

So what the hell was that in OT there?

 

[al secord]

Ya he's swell.

 

[mulefarm]

Over 26 min. Boy is he bad!

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

He brutally gave away the puck in OT to cause the 4 on 3 penalty. Perfect example of what he's all about: ice in his veins and you gotta take the good with the bad in that regard and that was pretty lackadaisically bad.

 

[ryno23]

Problem with Gardiner is he is such a laid back guy there is no intensity to his game. He is calm out there one minute making great plays then that same calmness creates a Gardiner moment when you wonder why did he think that would work or just soft on a play

He doesnt have that danger awareness or ability to intense

Things wont change so you take the good and bad

 

[Nithoniniel]

He doesnt have that danger awareness

Yup. That's spot on what I think too. And I think the root of it is that he's convinced he can play his way out of any situation. He doesn't panic as much as get overly ambitious, and ignore the risk factor.

 

[Zybalto]

Good bounceback game from him outside a few costly breakdowns but he is eating some big minutes.

He'll always be a divisive player around here, thats for sure.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

When he is on he is a fantastic player. Can't wait to see playoff Jake.
I think he thrives on extremely uptempo hockey where all of his teammates are functioning at their best.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Only Gardiner could get so much hate from a puck hitting off the linesman on the dump in.

 

[Zybalto]

Only Gardiner could get so much hate from a puck hitting off the linesman on the dump in.

Pretty sure Komorov, Hyman, Zaitsev, Hainsey, Brown, and others would get it just as bad. Some folks just dont like certain players and look for reasons to go after them. I find Dmen get it especially bad around here.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Pretty sure Komorov, Hyman, Zaitsev, Hainsey, Brown, and others would get it just as bad. Some folks just dont like certain players and look for reasons to go after them. I find Dmen get it especially bad around here.

Agreed, though Gardiner is the cream of the crop for unjustified hate

 

[Duke Silver]

Only Gardiner could get so much hate from a puck hitting off the linesman on the dump in.

Gardiner gets a pass for that.

But Seguin walked through him on the rebound like he was an open door. Box out your man!

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Gardiner gets a pass for that.

But Seguin walked through him on the rebound like he was an open door. Box out your man!

Seguin's second?