What is Dion Phaneuf? Statistical View

[Anth93]

A statistical view (using behindthenet) of Phaneuf vs other dmen.

First let's use Calgary Phaneuf when he was all about offense and compare him to the recent Norris winners that have a similar focus.

2007-08 Phaneuf:
Offensive Zone Start %: 56.8%
Quality of Competition: -0.852
Corsi Relative: +8.0
82 Games: 17 Goals, 43 Assists, 60 Points
2011-12 Karlsson:
Offensive Zone Start %: 57.1%
Quality of Competition: -0.27
Corsi Relative: +11.3
81 Games: 19 Goals, 59 Assists, 78 Points
2012-13 Subban:
Offensive Zone Start %: 53.6
Quality of Competition: -0.89
Corsi Relative: +13.7
42 Games: 11 Goals (22), 27 Assists (54), 38 Points (76)

What's the common theme? Zone starts and competition. Phaneuf played the FIFTH toughest competition among his Dmen that year while getting a high rate of offensive zone starts. He was essentially Cody Franson of last year, 5 years earlier. Notice how his numbers match up with the other two? None of them were used as shutdown players. They had Robyn Regehr, Josh Gorges and Chris Philips for that.

Now let's look at the Toronto Phaneuf who is played in a completely opposite role where it's all about defense and efficient minutes and compare him to Zdeno Chara/Shea Weber.

2012-13 Phaneuf:
Offensive Zone Start %: 41.3%
Quality of Competition: +3.173
Corsi Relative: -7.3
48 Games: 9 Goals (15), 19 Assists (32), 28 Points (49)
2012-13 Chara:
Offensive Zone Start %: 45.8%
Quality of Competition: -0.142
Corsi Relative: +6.0
48 Games: 7 Goals (12), 12 Assists (20), 19 Points (32)
2012-13 Weber:
Offensive Zone Start %: 42.6%
Quality of Competition: +1.82
Corsi Relative: -2.1
48 Games: 9 Goals (15), 19 Assists (32), 28 Points (49)

Shocking isn't it? Dion Phaneuf and Shea Weber just had a season where their statistics mirror one another. For whatever reason, the minute he become a Toronto Maple Leaf, we gave him an entirely different role.

So the question is, what's he better suited for? He was never PK Subban or Erik Karlsson, but he was surprisingly close. Yet on the other hand, now we have to compare him to the defensive guys such as Kronwall, Chara, Weber, Girardi, etc. What role would you like to see him in moving forward?

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[WTFMAN99]

Interesting view, the thing is he's never gonna be the best at what he does, but he's still good.

I pretty much view him as a good 2 way d man who can give you good minutes and put up 30-40 pts a season.

Apparently he won't take a dime less than 6.5 and I wouldn't give him a dime over, did think 8 years might get him to 5.85 mill or something like that

 

[Tak7]

I don't care what role he plays - as long as this is his last season on the team.

We don't need him at that ridiculous salary number, and if he's expecting more money next summer, then I'd happily drive him to the airport myself.

Plenty of very good Dmen coming up in the system, and it's already a very young D-core as it is. Get rid of this guy unless his demands come down, and let's see what we have with some youth.

Kessel @ 8
Lupul and Clarkson @ 5+
Bozak and JvR @ 4+
Franson to be on 4+ next year
Kadri to be on 4+ in 2 years
Where does Gardiner fit into this?

It's time to start managing the cap, and giving Phaneuf anything close to $6 is just poor management of the cap.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Get rid of this guy unless his demands come down.

What demand?

giving Phaneuf anything close to $6 is just poor management of the cap.

This is insane.

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

I don't care what role he plays - as long as this is his last season on the team.

We don't need him at that ridiculous salary number, and if he's expecting more money next summer, then I'd happily drive him to the airport myself.

Plenty of very good Dmen coming up in the system, and it's already a very young D-core as it is. Get rid of this guy unless his demands come down, and let's see what we have with some youth.

Kessel @ 8
Lupul and Clarkson @ 5+
Bozak and JvR @ 4+
Franson to be on 4+ next year
Kadri to be on 4+ in 2 years
Where does Gardiner fit into this?

It's time to start managing the cap, and giving Phaneuf anything close to $6 is just poor management of the cap.

 

[HarrisonFord]

OP, you have such an insatiable hate for Phaneuf it's ridiculous. It's like he kicked your dog, and stole your gf. Sean Avery, is that you?

 

[Leafs Forever]

Phaneuf has matured an fits nicely as that all-around #1D, ala Chara or Weber as you compare, and he's really the only one on the team capable of that right now. We have plenty of good up-and-coming offensive defenseman to fit that more sheltered role.

And I'll never understand why people hate Phaneuf so much. He's not perfect, but he's still a great defenseman, is not old, and is a crucial part of this team. Even if we have good up-and-coming young defensemen, keeping him around just makes our defense have much more depth. I feel like even if he won the Norris, people would find something to complain about with him.

 

[Anth93]

OP, you have such an insatiable hate for Phaneuf it's ridiculous. It's like he kicked your dog, and stole your gf. Sean Avery, is that you?

You think this post is showing my hate for Phaneuf? Uh, right.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Phaneuf has matured an fits nicely as that all-around #1D, ala Chara or Weber as you compare, and he's really the only one on the team capable of that right now. We have plenty of good up-and-coming offensive defenseman to fit that more sheltered role.

And I'll never understand why people hate Phaneuf so much. He's not perfect, but he's still a great defenseman, is not old, and is a crucial part of this team. Even if we have good up-and-coming young defensemen, keeping him around just makes our defense have much more depth. I feel like even if he won the Norris, people would find something to complain about with him.

This is a city that would have eaten Bobby Orr and Nicklas Lidstrom alive if they played here yet will praise the Domi's, and Orr's of the team.

 

[CmonLeafs]

I don't care what role he plays - as long as this is his last season on the team.

We don't need him at that ridiculous salary number, and if he's expecting more money next summer, then I'd happily drive him to the airport myself.

Plenty of very good Dmen coming up in the system, and it's already a very young D-core as it is. Get rid of this guy unless his demands come down, and let's see what we have with some youth.

Kessel @ 8
Lupul and Clarkson @ 5+
Bozak and JvR @ 4+
Franson to be on 4+ next year
Kadri to be on 4+ in 2 years
Where does Gardiner fit into this?

It's time to start managing the cap, and giving Phaneuf anything close to $6 is just poor management of the cap.

I'd give Phaneuf $10M if that's what we want. If Nonis does decide to get rid of him, you and many others will see this team in the bottom of the Atlantic.

 

[HarrisonFord]

You think this post is showing my hate for Phaneuf? Uh, right.

I looked all over your posts in the Kessel thread re: Phaneuf

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

You think this post is showing my hate for Phaneuf? Uh, right.

I think he meant Tak.

 

[Parkdale]

I'd give Phaneuf $10M if that's what we want. If Nonis does decide to get rid of him, you and many others will see this team in the bottom of the Atlantic.

I think the Leafs might offer up to $6.5M and I'm afraid he might take it.

 

[rojac]

I think the Leafs might offer up to $6.5M and I'm afraid he might take it.

Most likely. It's pretty clear listening to Nonis talk about Phaneuf that they want to keep Phaneuf. Nonis also thinks that Phaneuf is treated unfairly by some fans.

 

[blueberrie]

If we can replace him with a more defensively orientated D I would be ok with letting him walk. Girardi, Schenn, Vlasic, Hamhuis, Michalek could all replace his tough ES minutes as well as replace him on our #1 PK. We already have the personal to replace his #1 PP minutes.

 

[diceman934]

Dion is a very good D man who wants to be paid as a great D-man.

We seriously need to consider our future....if we want to win the cup we need to make some tough decisions moving forward.

No Max Term contract for Dion....5-6 year deal at 6 to 6.5 we need to sign him to a contract that makes him moveable as we have a lot of young D man in our system that we will need to play and pay going forward.

I can see him being moved in the next 18 months as the time for tough decisions are coming.

 

[Parkdale]

Dion is a very good D man who wants to be paid as a great D-man.

We seriously need to consider our future....if we want to win the cup we need to make some tough decisions moving forward.

No Max Term contract for Dion....5-6 year deal at 6 to 6.5 we need to sign him to a contract that makes him moveable as we have a lot of young D man in our system that we will need to play and pay going forward.

I can see him being moved in the next 18 months as the time for tough decisions are coming.

Very logical. I can see Phaneuf balking at the term, but one never knows. Don't hate him, but think Leafs would be more than OK without him.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Phaneuf has matured an fits nicely as that all-around #1D, ala Chara or Weber as you compare, and he's really the only one on the team capable of that right now. We have plenty of good up-and-coming offensive defenseman to fit that more sheltered role.

And I'll never understand why people hate Phaneuf so much. He's not perfect, but he's still a great defenseman, is not old, and is a crucial part of this team. Even if we have good up-and-coming young defensemen, keeping him around just makes our defense have much more depth. I feel like even if he won the Norris, people would find something to complain about with him.

He gets the same treatment as Bryan McCabe got. Both got paid very well for what they brought but both are darn good Dman and in the conversation for about 10th best Dman or so in the league.

Leafs fans just get so caught up in the salary and act like other teams don't have to overpay certain players (i.e. Campbell, Wiz, Wideman, etc.). Also when Dion or McCabe make an error it's usually from being over-aggressive and fans always focus on that error but will love a player like Kaberle/Gardiner who will not be aggressive enough which also results in an error but the type that drives coaches crazy but doesn't ever show up on the highlight reel.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Please lock this thread on account of its douchebaggery.

 

[Big Papa Cheese]

Dion haters are getting out of hand. Don't pay him 6m a year? are you kidding? People seem to think finding abig strong d who plays 30+ mins a game including pp and pk while still putting up points while basically carrying an entire defence core is easy to come by.

Please don't just say 'get rid of dion'. Offer who the **** you think is gunna take his place!

The guy is in top 10 in the league

 

[Bob Lemoche]

A statistical view (using behindthenet) of Phaneuf vs other dmen.

First let's use Calgary Phaneuf when he was all about offense and compare him to the recent Norris winners that have a similar focus.

2007-08 Phaneuf:
Offensive Zone Start %: 56.8%
Quality of Competition: -0.852
Corsi Relative: +8.0
82 Games: 17 Goals, 43 Assists, 60 Points
2011-12 Karlsson:
Offensive Zone Start %: 57.1%
Quality of Competition: -0.27
Corsi Relative: +11.3
81 Games: 19 Goals, 59 Assists, 78 Points
2012-13 Subban:
Offensive Zone Start %: 53.6
Quality of Competition: -0.89
Corsi Relative: +13.7
42 Games: 11 Goals (22), 27 Assists (54), 38 Points (76)

What's the common theme? Zone starts and competition. Phaneuf played the FIFTH toughest competition among his Dmen that year while getting a high rate of offensive zone starts. He was essentially Cody Franson of last year, 5 years earlier. Notice how his numbers match up with the other two? None of them were used as shutdown players. They had Robyn Regehr, Josh Gorges and Chris Philips for that.

Now let's look at the Toronto Phaneuf who is played in a completely opposite role where it's all about defense and efficient minutes and compare him to Zdeno Chara/Shea Weber.

2012-13 Phaneuf:
Offensive Zone Start %: 41.3%
Quality of Competition: +3.173
Corsi Relative: -7.3
48 Games: 9 Goals (15), 19 Assists (32), 28 Points (49)
2012-13 Chara:
Offensive Zone Start %: 45.8%
Quality of Competition: -0.142
Corsi Relative: +6.0
48 Games: 7 Goals (12), 12 Assists (20), 19 Points (32)
2012-13 Weber:
Offensive Zone Start %: 42.6%
Quality of Competition: +1.82
Corsi Relative: -2.1
48 Games: 9 Goals (15), 19 Assists (32), 28 Points (49)

Shocking isn't it? Dion Phaneuf and Shea Weber just had a season where their statistics mirror one another. For whatever reason, the minute he become a Toronto Maple Leaf, we gave him an entirely different role.

So the question is, what's he better suited for? He was never PK Subban or Erik Karlsson, but he was surprisingly close. Yet on the other hand, now we have to compare him to the defensive guys such as Kronwall, Chara, Weber, Girardi, etc. What role would you like to see him in moving forward?

It's a fair point about Phaneuf who is probably not appreciated as much as he should.

A correction about Subban though (I know it'll be unpopular here but it's the truth): he's far and away the Habs best defensive defenseman. He was not quite used as much as he should have last year in the tough situations mainly because he missed the beginning of the season and because Michel Therrien was still learning about the team... he was used profusely in the second half of the season just like he was the year before with Jacques Martin and he excelled in those situations. You can look up every advanced stats you can find about his defensive performances and it shows top end performance. Look this up if you are still a skeptic: http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/h...2/4673148/2013-habs-top-25-under-25-pk-subban

 

[zeke]

Phaneuf is an elite #1 defenseman, across the board, in all areas.


The good news here is because his reputation has been so unfairly savaged, the Leafs have the chance to lock up a true #1 all-around defenseman in his prime, for well below market price.

Phaneuf should be getting ~$8m caphit per year, but because of all the crap he gets, and because he wants to stay here, we're luckily going to get him long term for about ~$6.5m, the same price he's at now, which is an epic bargain.


Beautiful.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If we can replace him with a more defensively orientated D I would be ok with letting him walk. Girardi, Schenn, Vlasic, Hamhuis, Michalek could all replace his tough ES minutes as well as replace him on our #1 PK. We already have the personal to replace his #1 PP minutes.

You would prefer those guys over Phaneuf?
Grass is greener or what? Luke Schenn?

 

[TheProspector]

Dion will get 7m. And that's fair compensation.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Phaneuf is an elite #1 defenseman, across the board, in all areas.


The good news here is because his reputation has been so unfairly savaged, the Leafs have the chance to lock up a true #1 all-around defenseman in his prime, for well below market price.

Phaneuf should be getting ~$8m caphit per year, but because of all the crap he gets, and because he wants to stay here, we're luckily going to get him long term for about ~$6.5m, the same price he's at now, which is an epic bargain.


Beautiful.

He finished 11th in Norris voting last year.

The season prior he was an all-star who was being talked as a Norris candidate in the the early part of the season and carried the team on his back for about 50 games until the team went into a tailspin mostly due to circumstances beyond his control like goaltending, Ron Wilson.

League wide I think people know what he is at this point. It's just fans love to hate him.

None of us know what he's looking for on his next contract either so it's only speculation but he's definitely worth more than guys who have got paid in the 5-6 range as UFAs recently like Wideman, Gonchar, Streit, Wiz, Carle, Martin.