What if the Kraken traded for Marner?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Headshot77

Bad Photoshopper
Feb 15, 2015
3,887
1,822
With 30 picks and only 20 spots on an opening lineup, 1/3rd of the Kraken picks will be either scratched, on the taxi squad, or in the AHL. With the generous rules afforded to Seattle they will be able to pick up an NHL level talent from every team except for a few teams like Detroit. I feel like it would make a ton of sense for Seattle to draft a few excess NHL starters and trading quantity for quality with Toronto for Mitch Marner.

The problems with Toronto are obvious: 4 players taking up 50% of the cap. They will never go anywhere in a playoff bracket where refs swallow their whistles and dead puck hockey returns for the most important part of the season. I think they need to use Marner's 10.9 million on an entire LINE of forwards, not just one guy.

My Longshot prediction is that Seattle takes some extra NHL caliber talent (more than would fit on a 20 man roster) and trades three quality players to Toronto for Marner.

Something like:
Pavelski@50% (RW, 3.5m)
Palat (LW, 5.3m)
Aston-Reese (LW, 1m)
Total 9.8 million

For:
Taking Marner (RW, 10.9) in the ED, so Toronto keeps Kerfoot.

would make a TON of sense for both parties. Toronto gets all-important depth so they can actually win a playoff series and Seattle gets a marketable star that will get them some serious offensive production. I specifically picked out players who have gone on lots of playoff runs as key contributers. Pavelski was the leading scorer for the Stars. Palat has a great game and was instrumental for the Lightning's cup run. Aston-Reese is one of the best shutdown bottom 6 defensive forwards in the game. Toronto also saves a bit over 1 million which can go towards re-signing Zack Hymen. In return, Seattle starts their existence with a top 5 NHL scorer.

Hymen-Matthews-Nylander
Palat-Tavares-Pavelski

For the record, im mainly a Pens fan who has an interest in the leafs and the expansion draft. If I'm off on player evaluation or the trade value I'm all ears. What do you guys think about this?
 
Last edited:

Jdodd

Registered User
Jun 24, 2017
72
28
It’s pretty fair would prefer the 3 players over the 1. Plus the 3 are more playoff type players IMO. I am just not that high on Morner or his salary.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,202
8,913
Whidbey Island, WA
With 30 picks and only 20 spots on an opening lineup, 1/3rd of the Kraken picks will be either scratched, on the taxi squad, or in the AHL. With the generous rules afforded to Seattle they will be able to pick up an NHL level talent from every team except for a few teams like Detroit. I feel like it would make a ton of sense for Seattle to draft a few excess NHL starters and trading quantity for quality with Toronto for Mitch Marner.

The problems with Toronto are obvious: 4 players taking up 50% of the cap. They will never go anywhere in a playoff bracket where refs swallow their whistles and dead puck hockey returns for the most important part of the season. I think they need to use Marner's 10.9 million on an entire LINE of forwards, not just one guy.

My Longshot prediction is that Seattle takes some extra NHL caliber talent (more than would fit on a 20 man roster) and trades three quality players to Toronto for Marner.

Something like:
Pavelski@50% (RW, 3.5m)
Palat (LW, 5.3m)
Aston-Reese (LW, 1m)
Total 9.8 million

For:
Taking Marner (RW, 10.9) in the ED, so Toronto keeps Kerfoot.

would make a TON of sense for both parties. Toronto gets all-important depth so they can actually win a playoff series and Seattle gets a marketable star that will get them some serious offensive production. I specifically picked out players who have gone on lots of playoff runs as key contributers. Pavelski was the leading scorer for the Stars. Palat has a great game and was instrumental for the Lightning's cup run. Aston-Reese is one of the best shutdown bottom 6 defensive forwards in the game. Toronto also saves a bit over 1 million which can go towards re-signing Zack Hymen. In return, Seattle starts their existence with a top 5 NHL scorer.

Hymen-Matthews-Nylander
Palat-Tavares-Pavelski

For the record, im mainly a Pens fan who has an interest in the leafs and the expansion draft. If I'm off on player evaluation or the trade value I'm all ears. What do you guys think about this?
I would take that deal and run as a Kraken fan. Marner is a legit 1st line forward who is only 24 years old. We are not going to get many 1st line forwards in the draft and Marner could be a core of the lineup for a while.

That being said, I don't know if:
a) Pavs waives his NMC. I feel like him wanting a 3 year contract and not re-signing with the Sharks for 2 was partly driven by wanting protection during the expansion draft.

b) Leafs may be able to back better value from other teams than the offer on the plate.
 

gstommylee

Registered User
Jan 31, 2012
14,400
2,742
Absolutely not. Marners at his contract is not worth taking at all. Seattle is not going to reduce how many players they have available for call ups just for one overpaid player.

Leafs also said they aren't moving him.
 

StarterHart

Waffle
Feb 2, 2018
1,250
3,479
Arlington, WA
I would take that deal and run as a Kraken fan. Marner is a legit 1st line forward who is only 24 years old. We are not going to get many 1st line forwards in the draft and Marner could be a core of the lineup for a while.

That being said, I don't know if:
a) Pavs waives his NMC. I feel like him wanting a 3 year contract and not re-signing with the Sharks for 2 was partly driven by wanting protection during the expansion draft.

b) Leafs may be able to back better value from other teams than the offer on the plate.

Agree on most of your points. However, Pavelski is available. His NMC turns into a modified NTC after this season, specifically done so that he would be available to be exposed.
 

StarterHart

Waffle
Feb 2, 2018
1,250
3,479
Arlington, WA
Absolutely not. Marners at his contract is not worth taking at all. Seattle is not going to reduce how many players they have available for call ups just for one overpaid player.

Leafs also said they aren't moving him.

Marners at his contract is not worth taking at all

He's 24 and just finished top 5 in the league in scoring. The contract is a bit too high, because it was signed with the assumption that the cap would be going up. That being said, Seattle is in a position to be able to deal with that cap hit far better than most teams, and especially more so than Toronto, who is now in a bad way due to a couple other contracts and the flat cap. He's absolutely worth it.

Seattle is not going to reduce how many players they have available for call ups just for one overpaid player.

This makes no sense. They will have plenty of players for this after the expansion draft alone, and that's not taking into account side deals, trades, free agency, and the entry draft. The idea that losing 2 extra bodies is too much to make a deal for an elite player is hilarious. I guarantee you that call ups wouldn't even be close to being a factor for Ron Francis in considering a deal like this.

Leafs also said they aren't moving him.

Teams always do what they say they're gonna do and never hide their intentions to get better value. Nope, never.


To be absolutely clear, I don't think this deal has a good chance of happening at all, but to dismiss it in this fashion is short sighted and weird.
 
Last edited:

CascadiaPenguin

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 5, 2017
4,070
3,726
The Salish Sea
With 30 picks and only 20 spots on an opening lineup, 1/3rd of the Kraken picks will be either scratched, on the taxi squad, or in the AHL. With the generous rules afforded to Seattle they will be able to pick up an NHL level talent from every team except for a few teams like Detroit. I feel like it would make a ton of sense for Seattle to draft a few excess NHL starters and trading quantity for quality with Toronto for Mitch Marner.

The problems with Toronto are obvious: 4 players taking up 50% of the cap. They will never go anywhere in a playoff bracket where refs swallow their whistles and dead puck hockey returns for the most important part of the season. I think they need to use Marner's 10.9 million on an entire LINE of forwards, not just one guy.

My Longshot prediction is that Seattle takes some extra NHL caliber talent (more than would fit on a 20 man roster) and trades three quality players to Toronto for Marner.

Something like:
Pavelski@50% (RW, 3.5m)
Palat (LW, 5.3m)
Aston-Reese (LW, 1m)
Total 9.8 million

For:
Taking Marner (RW, 10.9) in the ED, so Toronto keeps Kerfoot.

would make a TON of sense for both parties. Toronto gets all-important depth so they can actually win a playoff series and Seattle gets a marketable star that will get them some serious offensive production. I specifically picked out players who have gone on lots of playoff runs as key contributers. Pavelski was the leading scorer for the Stars. Palat has a great game and was instrumental for the Lightning's cup run. Aston-Reese is one of the best shutdown bottom 6 defensive forwards in the game. Toronto also saves a bit over 1 million which can go towards re-signing Zack Hymen. In return, Seattle starts their existence with a top 5 NHL scorer.

Hymen-Matthews-Nylander
Palat-Tavares-Pavelski

For the record, im mainly a Pens fan who has an interest in the leafs and the expansion draft. If I'm off on player evaluation or the trade value I'm all ears. What do you guys think about this?
Displaced Pens fan/ Kraken STH here, agree about Marner for sure. ZAR, not so much. As you state his metrics are good, but he just doesn’t seem to play up to the numbers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brewski420

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,202
8,913
Whidbey Island, WA
Agree on most of your points. However, Pavelski is available. His NMC turns into a modified NTC after this season, specifically done so that he would be available to be exposed.

Ahh. Did not realize the Pavs last year was a NTC and not an NMC. I have a very soft spot for Pavs as someone who used to root for the Sharks. I have 3 hockey jerseys. Joe Thornton and 2 x Pavs (USA Olympics + Sharks). Dude just keeps producing despite his age and lack of speed or physical presence. I would like him on the team but if there was a chance to move him for Marner, I would take it and run.

I understand that a lot of people balk at the money Marner makes but he is a one of the best wingers in the game. Great playmaker and kept producing on the leaves even without Matthews and Tavares.

The reason I would be interested in a deal like that is that we are not losing any real picks/prospects for getting Marner. He is a winger who could drive a top-line with 2 good 2nd line players. His contract is expensive but with his age (24), we can rest easy that he should be able to produce during the length of his contract and hopefully re-sign with us after as well.
 

mac nylander

Registered User
May 23, 2021
167
327
New York, NY
It sounds like Dubas/Shanny is going to run our core back for 1 more year so I highly doubt it unless there's an overpay.

Definitely think Seattle should take a page from VGK tho. It'll be exciting to see what they do.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,202
8,913
Whidbey Island, WA
36 year old pavelski for marner? Lol pass
That is a very simplistic view of looking at it.

While I don't see the Leafs being interested in a deal like this, you are acting like they are swimming in cap space. Marner is due 11M for another 4 seasons. Looking at the thread in the main forums, most Toronto fans will agree that Marner is overpaid for what he brings to the table. The deal may have been worth when signed with a rising cap and not a critique on Marner's production but right now, you would be hard pressed to find people simply willing to take on that much money and add players on better and/or shorter deals.

The idea behind the deal is to get 2 very useful top-6 players in Pavs and Palat with a combined cap hit 2 million less than what Marner makes and also drops off within a season as opposed to 4. When your top-3 forwards are making a combined 33M+ in salary, you are unlikely to get depth in the lineup. Maybe the Leafs can get lucky and get a team to take Marner on with a decent return but with his failings in the playoffs and high cap hit, I would be surprised.
 

Fisticuffer

Registered User
Mar 14, 2020
863
554
I’d take Marner no problem. Put him with a couple guys that can shoot and have enough hockey sense to get into open ice for a shot and he’ll deliver it right on the tape.
That’s a big yes please from me.
 

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
4,379
4,188
Pacific Northwest
I don't think that is near enough quality to get you a player like Marner.

Toronto's front office knows how good the kid is and won't let him go for cheap, despite all the current complaints about Marner's past two playoff series(one of which was a best of 5 game series) He is still a dynamic, line driving PPG+ player who is one of the top wingers in the game.

Sure, his cap hit is high for a winger, but his cap hit is probably less than 20% too much, and after his signing bonus is paid this year, he's only owed 27 million for the next 4 years. (That 6.75 million per year actual dollars is quite attractive for what he brings.)
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,202
8,913
Whidbey Island, WA
I don't think that is near enough quality to get you a player like Marner.

Toronto's front office knows how good the kid is and won't let him go for cheap, despite all the current complaints about Marner's past two playoff series(one of which was a best of 5 game series) He is still a dynamic, line driving PPG+ player who is one of the top wingers in the game.

Sure, his cap hit is high for a winger, but his cap hit is probably less than 20% too much, and after his signing bonus is paid this year, he's only owed 27 million for the next 4 years. (That 6.75 million per year actual dollars is quite attractive for what he brings.)

I agree. I think that move would wreak of desperation if Toronto did it.

I do think that picking the likes of Pavs, Henrique, etc. would be very valuable for us even if they don't work out for us. Great trade chips to have at the TDL and I bet Francis would be more than happy to retain on them to get more 1st at the TDL.
 

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
4,379
4,188
Pacific Northwest
I agree. I think that move would wreak of desperation if Toronto did it.

I do think that picking the likes of Pavs, Henrique, etc. would be very valuable for us even if they don't work out for us. Great trade chips to have at the TDL and I bet Francis would be more than happy to retain on them to get more 1st at the TDL.
Using the draft to acquire assets for deadline deals would be smart, but the 2022 draft is strong enough that i am not certain there will be many GMs willing to move their 1st rounders.

Never the less, adding a second or two for next year would still be pretty nice.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,202
8,913
Whidbey Island, WA
Using the draft to acquire assets for deadline deals would be smart, but the 2022 draft is strong enough that i am not certain there will be many GMs willing to move their 1st rounders.

Never the less, adding a second or two for next year would still be pretty nice.
I get the strength of next year draft but the playoff teams don't generally care as much. For us the key is to accumulate 1st round picks. If we can get multiple picks, stack them and move up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Irie

Pyrophorus

Registered User
Jun 1, 2009
26,197
2,905
Eastern GTA
Absolutely not. Marners at his contract is not worth taking at all. Seattle is not going to reduce how many players they have available for call ups just for one overpaid player.

Leafs also said they aren't moving him.

I would move him--for Eichel and something tiny.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,122
7,485
Bellingham, WA
I don't think that is near enough quality to get you a player like Marner.

Toronto's front office knows how good the kid is and won't let him go for cheap, despite all the current complaints about Marner's past two playoff series(one of which was a best of 5 game series) He is still a dynamic, line driving PPG+ player who is one of the top wingers in the game.

Sure, his cap hit is high for a winger, but his cap hit is probably less than 20% too much, and after his signing bonus is paid this year, he's only owed 27 million for the next 4 years. (That 6.75 million per year actual dollars is quite attractive for what he brings.)
Interesting point, they'd get better offers from a dumpster fire team like Buffalo.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->