What if the draft went away?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by TheOtherOne, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. ThatGuy22

    ThatGuy22 Registered User

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    He doesn't outright say it, but his idea is scrapping ELCs all together. Thats the implication of this statement.

    "Top teams competing for the Cup are already paying top dollar to the best players in the world, so they simply won't be able to offer an 18-year-old Connor McDavid a king's ransom and still make the cap work."
     
  2. Oak

    Oak Trade Lundqvist

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    Man I can watch this show every day for the rest of my life.
     
  3. ThatGuy22

    ThatGuy22 Registered User

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    I've always been in favor of the relatively free market. Keep the salary cap with a 50% player/owner split and keep guaranteed contracts, and scrap ELC and RFA systems. The cap combined with guaranteed contracts is enough regulation to stop a team or even 5 from dominating the talent distribution of new players.

    The Owners really shouldn't care, because they still get the same cut regardless. GMs will hate it, because it makes their job more important. But they can eat it, no more skating through a rebuilding being bad on purpose.
     
  4. CodeE

    CodeE step on snek

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    It's been done before and failed. Montreal grabbed all the best young talent and won a billion Stanley Cups with their superteam.
     
    Last edited by moderator garnetpalmetto: Feb 12, 2019
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  5. ThatGuy22

    ThatGuy22 Registered User

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    A league with no salary cap and basically zero free agency isn't the same as having a strict cap, and un-restricted free agency.
     
    Last edited by moderator garnetpalmetto: Feb 12, 2019
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  6. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Registered User

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    Montreal may have dominated pre-draft but that doesn't mean the pre-draft system couldn't be modified to fix that. For example with a salary cap.

    Clearly it IS broken, as the draft is continuously modified. That's why there's a lottery system, and the current iteration of the lottery system is almost brand new. So obviously someone sees a problem and has been trying to fix it.

    Granted HOW broken the problem is is in the eye of the beholder. I, personally, REALLY REALLY hate that every time my team loses I can't help but feel a little happy that the loss may directly lead to a better future player. I want to remove that connection no matter how much work it takes.

    Under my system, for every team overpaying Crosby and winning Cups for it, there will be a team overpaying Yakupov and setting themselves back for it, and a team jumping the gun on Larkin and getting themselves an earned advantage. I think you're all really underestimating how complex it would be. A GM can't just say "throw all our money at all the best 18 year olds all the time" and expect to succeed. There will be a lot of franchise skill involved in choosing which prospects to invest in. And I think that's a great thing for the league.
     
  7. tfong

    tfong Registered User Sponsor

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    Luxury taxes haven't stopped baseball teams or NBA. The same few teams dominate and there is little parity. The NHL's vision is to create parity so this is how they've run it.

    I don't know why its hilarious, fundamentally its what they aim for in order to expand the product other wise un-traditional markets. Its pretty simple, cause hockey is a niche sport for all intents and purposes due to its lack of accessibility.

    I'm perfectly fine either way, I'm ok going back to a non salary cap era too.
     
  8. SnuggaRUDE

    SnuggaRUDE Registered User

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    And here's your central conceit. You believe that your emotional reaction indicates a system is mechanically broken. They tinker with the draft to appeal to the emotional responses of audiences; not because it's a good idea.
     
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  9. SnuggaRUDE

    SnuggaRUDE Registered User

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    You're viewing the league incorrectly, it isn't 31 separate entities competing. It's one entity competing against other entertainment options. That they've formed a cartel to do so is just how capital has decided to operate in this environment.
     
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  10. justafan22

    justafan22 Registered User

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    but assuming there's a cap on the draft pool, would a prospect go to a team for less vs a bad market offering tens of millions more?
     
  11. CodeE

    CodeE step on snek

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    You're too busy fixating on the Crosbys and Yakupovs.

    Take a team like Tampa - good location, good foundation, no income tax, strong team. Stevie Y making all these 18-year-old kids starstruck. 2018 draft - bidding war for Dahlin & Svech, teams outbidding each other, alright. But then Stevie goes to work, signing Kravtsov, Boqvist, Dobson, Farabee, Kaut, Smith, Kupari, Miller, Veleno - because no team is willing to severely overpay to see what kind of players these prospects will be in 2-3 years.

    Meanwhile the Ottawa Senators sign... nobody really. Because their owner is cheap and their team isn't very good.

    It simply leads to a situation where the rich continuously get richer while the poor get poorer. Whatever bittersweet feeling you get when your team loses but it helps your draft odds is just a feeling you're gonna have to deal with - the parity of the NHL is absolutely necessary and must be protected.
     
  12. SnuggaRUDE

    SnuggaRUDE Registered User

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    Some might
     
  13. justafan22

    justafan22 Registered User

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    it's interesting. I just hate the idea of bettman still is forcing parity on this league
     
  14. SnuggaRUDE

    SnuggaRUDE Registered User

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    In general, trying to formulate economic systems is best without emotional considerations.
     
  15. Ezekial

    Ezekial Registered User

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    After about the first 15-20 players it starts to turn into a terrible option in terms of player development. The draft puts players into organizations that give them structure and guidance even while they're unsigned.
     
  16. IceNeophyte

    IceNeophyte Registered User

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    So what's the downside of eliminating the draft lottery? :laugh:
     
  17. SotasicA

    SotasicA Registered User

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    Then the PA says no. Removing ELC's is taking money away from current NHLPA members' pockets, because it's a zero sum game. Every dollar away from a rookie is a dollar in a vet's wallet.
     
  18. izzy

    izzy go

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    id lose a lot of interest in the nhl honestly

    league would become dominated by a few teams
     
  19. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Registered User

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    OF COURSE emotional response of audience is important. Why in the world would you believe otherwise?

    Product provokes poor emotional response -> fewer people willing to pay for product.
    Product provokes good emotional response -> more people willing to pay for product.

    To be perfectly honest... if a team sucks because their owner is cheap, then I don't have any ****ing sympathy for them whatsoever. The team's fans should strike and demand new ownership. And in any case, that's not an indictment of my system because those teams suck anyway and will suck no matter what system we have.

    The key here is that IF management is skilled and committed to winning, they CAN thrive in the system because everyone has a level playing field. If Ottawa gets a new owner who wants to build a real competitor, they can go out of their way to do everything they can to lure the upcoming top prospects. The ones Toronto can't afford because they're busy competing with the highest paid 25-30 year olds in the game.

    At the end of the day even if ownership sucks on purpose they're still going to be signing a bunch of what are essentially 2nd rounders for cheap, some of whom will grow into great players by accident.
     
  20. ThatGuy22

    ThatGuy22 Registered User

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    And we should reward that ownership style with high draft picks (or attempt to atleast if their incompetance didn't lead them to trading them away).

    You've illustrated perfectly why this would work. Stevie Y is a good GM, and those are the types of GMs/teams that will have success. And those are the ones that should have success. A decade ago they were a mess that would have been listed among the Coyotes and Panthers as teams this would kill. But they got strong management, who turned them around. No reason they couldn't be as strong under a free market system.

    There is no reason Ottawa shouldn't be in the hunt for all those pieces you listed, because they have more available roster spots than anyone. Opportunity is a huge selling point. And if your owner and management are too cheap to take advantage of that, that's too bad.

    I would much rather see a system that drives an mgmt team out rather than rewards them with exciting pieces to sell to their fanbase. At some point they'd hire someone who can make it work.
     
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  21. stepdad gaary

    stepdad gaary Registered User

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    im sorry but its not like a new idea
     
  22. SnuggaRUDE

    SnuggaRUDE Registered User

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    You do know that no matter what system is built some teams will 'suck'; and through no fault of their own? As a previous poster said this isn't Lake Woebegone.
     
  23. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Agreed,.

    This is the typical " solution looking for a problem" type of idea.
     
  24. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Registered User

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    ...

    Yes, that's obviously true.

    And?
     
  25. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Registered User

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    Thanks, you did a great job putting my thoughts into words.



    You guys with all your arguments are describing a league in which good management lures top talent to become competitive. ****ty management has to deal with the scraps until they're replaced by someone better who's willing to step up to improve their franchise.

    This is the league I want to see!
     

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