What if Lemieux was in his prime today?

[Hardyvan123]

You try and keep up little fella. (Since you decided to play the "mocking" card; quite feebly I might add).

As I said, (since you aren't keeping up; [makes for a real grown up conversation huh?]), the biggest factor in my opinion is not how many goals are being scored, or how many power plays are being handed out, but instead it is the type of play, and type of goals, that are scored by today's skill players.

What is the point behind the type of play and type of goals?

Some elaboration would help us understand the point better.

I get the mocking point as some guys are really sensitive.

 

[Hardyvan123]

....and you continuing to put Sid and OV in the same class as Wayne and Mario, clearly shows that your own recognition skills are juuuuuuuust a little lacking themselves.

Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
"In 05-06, a prime healthy Lemieux playing with Jagr would almost certainly have scored 140 points.

Then again put peak Crosby and Ovechkin in the same situation and I think they could do the same. Anything between 120-160 is a matter of opinion what he would score in today's game, anything higher than that is to not recognize the state of the modern NHL.

I think part of the problem is that some players get put on too high a pedestal, Wayne, Bobby and Mario without the context of era being taken into account."

Any discussion of a player from today being in the same stratosphere seems to dictate that logical arguments be dammed and those player players dominance in different times is the only criteria for measuring greatness.

This is flawed IMO as the game and players has changed dramatically in the ability of any player or team to dominate the same way as in the early 80's to mid 80's and previous times.

 

[Gobo]

This is flawed IMO as the game and players has changed dramatically in the ability of any player or team to dominate the same way as in the early 80's to mid 80's and previous times.

How many other guys dominated the 80's when Gretzky was? How many when Mario and Jaromir played? A few. Except these guys were above and beyond everyone else, and that's why there top 3 players of all time. Would Crosby even crack the Top-50 players of all-time? He's definitely not better than an Yzerman or a Sakic, and Sakic put up 100 points as a 38 year old on a pretty poor team in the post-lockout era. Lemeiux blew Sakic away in talent, and a Mario in his prime even with less PP time would absolutely destroy. You couldn't hook/hold/interfere/hack at him, and even though all those things happened during his whole career he still scored goals like this:



There's 5~ hooks, 3~ slashes and 2 holds on this play and he still scored. He carried the Nordique player the whole way to the net. He would've been untouched on that breakaway in the NHL today.



No player other than Gretzky can make that play.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't think those players you mention are put on too high a pedestal at all. I think a lot of people just have trouble accepting the notion that they might just have been far and away the best players to ever lace them up.

We're all aware of the goal per game peak in the 80s and that Gretzky wouldn't score 92 goals today but if you look at the relative dominance of their peers you see unparalleled dominance, something neither Crosby nor Ovechkin can claim.

 

[Hardyvan123]

How many other guys dominated the 80's when Gretzky was? How many when Mario and Jaromir played? A few. Except these guys were above and beyond everyone else, and that's why there top 3 players of all time. Would Crosby even crack the Top-50 players of all-time? He's definitely not better than an Yzerman or a Sakic, and Sakic put up 100 points as a 38 year old on a pretty poor team in the post-lockout era. Lemeiux blew Sakic away in talent, and a Mario in his prime even with less PP time would absolutely destroy. You couldn't hook/hold/interfere/hack at him, and even though all those things happened during his whole career he still scored goals like this:



There's 5~ hooks, 3~ slashes and 2 holds on this play and he still scored. He carried the Nordique player the whole way to the net. He would've been untouched on that breakaway in the NHL today.



No player other than Gretzky can make that play.

the 1st noticeable thing in that clip, besides the great offense play is the goalie and a lot of goalies make that stop today which is another matter when evaluating offensive prowess that often gets overlooked..

 

[Canadiens1958]

Peak

Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
In 05-06, a prime healthy Lemieux playing with Jagr would almost certainly have scored 140 points.

Then again put peak Crosby and Ovechkin in the same situation and I think they could do the same. Anything between 120-160 is a matter of opinion what he would score in today's game, anything higher than that is to not recognize the state of the modern NHL.

I think part of the problem is that some players get put on too high a pedestal, Wayne, Bobby and Mario without the context of era being taken into account.

any discussion of a player from today being in the same stratosphere seems to dictate that logical arguments be dammed and those player players dominance in different times is the only criteria for measuring greatness.

This is flawed IMO as the game and players has changed dramatically in the ability of any player or team to dominate the same way as in the early 80's to mid 80's and previous times.

At best Crosby and Ovechkin are at the upper end of their formative years. If this is their peak then your position needs revision.

 

[Rhiessan71]

the 1st noticeable thing in that clip, besides the great offense play is the goalie and a lot of goalies make that stop today which is another matter when evaluating offensive prowess that often gets overlooked..

Dude....Lemieux potted 35 goals in just 43 games only 10 years ago and not only were goalies playing the exact same style they use now but they were all wearing what would be illegally over-sized equipment today.

Gimme a break already, your "observation" is less than worthless in this case.

 

[Sens Rule]

Dude....Lemieux potted 35 goals in just 43 games only 10 years ago and not only were goalies playing the exact same style they use now but they were all wearing what would be illegally over-sized equipment today.

Gimme a break already, your "observation" is less than worthless in this case.

Gretzky and Mario scored goals with precision and accuracy, and by shooting when the goalie expected a pass. They would not score as much with the better goaltending today than it was 25 or 20 years ago, but they would be far less affected by it than most other players would be.

Mario was so good on breakaways and penalty shots, I find it hard to believe that he would not be the best in the NHL now. With the shootout, while it would not show on his stats, he would be more valuable. When the best shooters now get 40-50% goals in shootouts, I bet Mario would get 70-80% goals or better over his career. And the number of breakaways he would get with no red line and the rules the way they are, he would score on a similar percentage of those.

The rules now are so much in Mario`s favour. I really think he would have a better chance at 80 or 90 goals than he would at 200 points. I think it would be harder for him to match his assists totals, moreso than his goal totals.

Mario was so much better than Crosby or Ovechkin offensively, he was on a completely different tier. He could make Ray Bourque look like a minor leaguer, I don`t think the fact that today`s defencemen are faster and better coached is really going to matter at all to Mario. He could embarrass the best of the best. The fact teams play better systems and the 3rd and 4th liners and bottom defencemen are quite a bit better than in the 80`s and early 90`s is all but irrelevant to Mario.

If Mario play 75 games he gets 70 goals and 150 points. In a perfect season when everything goes right he is looking at 90 goals and 180-200 points.

 

[Hardyvan123]

How many other guys dominated the 80's when Gretzky was? How many when Mario and Jaromir played? A few. Except these guys were above and beyond everyone else, and that's why there top 3 players of all time. Would Crosby even crack the Top-50 players of all-time? He's definitely not better than an Yzerman or a Sakic, and Sakic put up 100 points as a 38 year old on a pretty poor team in the post-lockout era. Lemeiux blew Sakic away in talent, and a Mario in his prime even with less PP time would absolutely destroy. You couldn't hook/hold/interfere/hack at him, and even though all those things happened during his whole career he still scored goals like this:



There's 5~ hooks, 3~ slashes and 2 holds on this play and he still scored. He carried the Nordique player the whole way to the net. He would've been untouched on that breakaway in the NHL today.



No player other than Gretzky can make that play.

Look I think the world of both Stevie Y and Sakic but neither player has had the peak in the regular season and playoffs like Sid the Kid has so to follow your weak straw man argument is faulty.

Sakic's 100 point season is 07 is an outlier from his previous seasons except 04 which is pretty equal when you adjust them.

the main point from the video clips is that the players and competition that he did them was quite simply inferior to the playing conditions that Lemiuex would face today.

Mario would still be a force but whether or not he would be blowing away the competition by 20-60 points a year is highly debatable and improbable as well, especially at the higher end of the above listed numbers.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Lots of dreamers in this thread....


He would be the best player...prolly topping out around 60g and 150pts in his prime in today's NHL.

It's not just the goalies, the equipment, etc....players are much bigger, stronger, better coached etc....

 

[Hardyvan123]

Dude....Lemieux potted 35 goals in just 43 games only 10 years ago and not only were goalies playing the exact same style they use now but they were all wearing what would be illegally over-sized equipment today.

Gimme a break already, your "observation" is less than worthless in this case.

Did you watch the clip compared to any of the games this season?

We all know what Mario did in that small sample size, his line was 43-35-41-76 (38-44-82 adjusted) compared to Sid's small sample size this year which was 41-32-34-66 (35-36-71 adjusted).

I know the next thing you are going to say that Mario was 35 but he also played on the PP and some regular time with some pretty decent players named Jagr and Kovalev compared to guys named Kunitz and others.

You might want to argue that it was Sid's 1st year at that level and I'll agree with you as he is still climbing the ladder at age 23 but Mario's 2 previous 2 full seasons were at 161 and 122 points (aged 30-31).

Which one is the aberration is anybody's guess. Jagr played in only 63 games in 122 point season so maybe there is something to that.

With the perfect situation I could see him getting 150-160 but the 130 range with the right linemates is more likely and who knows how his large body would hold up in todays game, it's pure speculation on our parts.

 

[revolverjgw]

We all know what Mario did in that small sample size, his line was 43-35-41-76 (38-44-82 adjusted) compared to Sid's small sample size this year which was 41-32-34-66 (35-36-71 adjusted).

I know the next thing you are going to say that Mario was 35 but he also played on the PP and some regular time with some pretty decent players named Jagr and Kovalev compared to guys named Kunitz and others.

A couple of years later, at 37, an even older and more worn down Lemieux scored at a adjusted 124 point pace over a pretty large 67 game sample size.. Jagr was long gone, Kovalev was traded, leaving Lemieux as the only 20 goal scorer on the team. Dick Tarnstrom was their best d-man. Their offense was 26th out of 30 teams.

This was an extremely slow and worn down Lemieux, with very little support, in a less-offense-friendly league, and he was on pace for more adjusted points than Crosby ever was.

Crosby and Ovechkin would be hard-pressed to outscore THAT Lemieux, let alone a good Lemieux in a good situation.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Did you watch the clip compared to any of the games this season?

We all know what Mario did in that small sample size, his line was 43-35-41-76 (38-44-82 adjusted) compared to Sid's small sample size this year which was 41-32-34-66 (35-36-71 adjusted).

I know the next thing you are going to say that Mario was 35 but he also played on the PP and some regular time with some pretty decent players named Jagr and Kovalev compared to guys named Kunitz and others.

You might want to argue that it was Sid's 1st year at that level and I'll agree with you as he is still climbing the ladder at age 23 but Mario's 2 previous 2 full seasons were at 161 and 122 points (aged 30-31).

Which one is the aberration is anybody's guess. Jagr played in only 63 games in 122 point season so maybe there is something to that.

With the perfect situation I could see him getting 150-160 but the 130 range with the right linemates is more likely and who knows how his large body would hold up in todays game, it's pure speculation on our parts.

Wait, let me get this straight....are you seriously trying to imply that Lemieux's numbers might be the aberration out of the two???
Yeah...the guy with 4 160 or more point seasons would be the aberration here, foooo shhhooooo.
Thanks though, I needed a good laugh today

Either way, actual point total speculation aside, a prime Mario would easily be THE best player in the World, let alone the league right now.

As far as the clip goes...who cares, that was at a time when you could hook, hold, impede and bother anyone at any time.
So what if the average player is bigger and stronger now, unlike back then, the only time they would be able to touch Mario was when he has the puck. The only way they defended against him back then was to either keep him from getting the puck or making sure he had no momentum built up when he did.
If you can't touch Mario until he touches the puck, then Lemieux has already won heh.

You honestly think that having a player on him that's a little stronger now than before is going to bother Mario?
The same Mario that would have at least one player hanging off him full time and then as many as three hanging off him when he did have the puck and he would still put it in the net.

 

[Hardyvan123]

A couple of years later, at 37, an even older and more worn down Lemieux scored at a adjusted 124 point pace over a pretty large 67 game sample size.. Jagr was long gone, Kovalev was traded, leaving Lemieux as the only 20 goal scorer on the team. Dick Tarnstrom was their best d-man. Their offense was 26th out of 30 teams.

This was an extremely slow and worn down Lemieux, with very little support, in a less-offense-friendly league, and he was on pace for more adjusted points than Crosby ever was.

Crosby and Ovechkin would be hard-pressed to outscore THAT Lemieux, let alone a good Lemieux in a good situation.

Look it was a great season, stat wise as Mario was allowed to play as he did, not that it helped the team to win very much though.

To the bolded part Sid has outscored that 37 year old Mario (PPG over a whole season adjusted 2 times already (in his 19 yr old seasons and last season as well at age 23) so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

AO isn't in the same class as Sid and Mario but is a great goal scorer with both Hull's being better comps IMO.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Look it was a great season, stat wise as Mario was allowed to play as he did, not that it helped the team to win very much though.

To the bolded part Sid has outscored that 37 year old Mario (PPG over a whole season adjusted 2 times already (in his 19 yr old seasons and last season as well at age 23) so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

AO isn't in the same class as Sid and Mario but is a great goal scorer with both Hull's being better comps IMO.

Dude, OV is a lot closer to Sid than Sid is to Mario, seriously, give your head a shake son. Enough already.

...and are you seriously basing your argument on a 19 year old Sid vs a 37 year old Mario AND using adjusted stats at face value to boot....I love it!!!
Made me laugh hard twice now, good job.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Yeah the players are all just bigger, faster, and stronger today. Actually the most noticeable thing is how much more skilled they are. Even if that wasn't a factor, you're completely out to lunch if you think Lemieux is scoring 150+ in today's NHL. The parity level is far greater, teams thrive off of depth more than ever, less powerplays, etc... he wouldn't be outscoring them by that much, and I truthfully think it's arguable whether or not he'd be a better overall player than Crosby or Ovechkin in today's NHL.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Wait, let me get this straight....are you seriously trying to imply that Lemieux's numbers might be the aberration out of the two???
Yeah...the guy with 4 160 or more point seasons would be the aberration here, foooo shhhooooo.
Thanks though, I needed a good laugh today

Either way, actual point total speculation aside, a prime Mario would easily be THE best player in the World, let alone the league right now.

As far as the clip goes...who cares, that was at a time when you could hook, hold, impede and bother anyone at any time.
So what if the average player is bigger and stronger now, unlike back then, the only time they would be able to touch Mario was when he has the puck. The only way they defended against him back then was to either keep him from getting the puck or making sure he had no momentum built up when he did.
If you can't touch Mario until he touches the puck, then Lemieux has already won heh.

You honestly think that having a player on him that's a little stronger now than before is going to bother Mario?
The same Mario that would have at least one player hanging off him full time and then as many as three hanging off him when he did have the puck and he would still put it in the net.

Maybe you missed my main point about the clip and the goaltender in it.

Go back and look at it and specifically how the goalie tries to make the save and watch some of the games from this year again. Most goalies make that type of spot today more often then not.

since you brought it up most teams play defense a ton better than back in Mario's prime and 3 of Mario's plus 160 point seasons came in years where the average league scoring was quite a bit higher.

He only loses 4 points adjusted on his 96 season compared to around 30 points on the over 3 seasons.

i know that you don't like adjusted stats, since they get in the way of your arguments but they sure tell more of the story than going strictly on counting stats which you tend to do and dismiss the impact of the condition of the league and how it affects scoring but there it is.

look it's not like I'm saying that Mario would not be a great player in todays game and possibly the top scorer but his dominance certainly would not be as great as it was in his peak seasons, primarily 88-89. (Unless you want to argue that Denis Savard and Stevie[/B] Y would get 130 and 150 plus points in todays NHL as well?)

 

[Rhiessan71]

Yeah the players are all just bigger, faster, and stronger today. Actually the most noticeable thing is how much more skilled they are. Even if that wasn't a factor, you're completely out to lunch if you think Lemieux is scoring 150+ in today's NHL. The parity level is far greater, teams thrive off of depth more than ever, less powerplays, etc... he wouldn't be outscoring them by that much, and I truthfully think it's arguable whether or not he'd be a better overall player than Crosby or Ovechkin in today's NHL.

No, in general they are faster but not more skilled.
Skill takes a back seat to speed in today's NHL. The Parity is caused by the emphasis on having Salary Cap friendly, cheap fast players to round out your bottom lines and the depth you speak of is an illusion.
Just because teams have faster players on their 3rd and 4th lines, that doesn't mean they are more skilled on those lines.
Quite simply, teams can't afford to have skilled players on their bottom lines.

 

[Gobo]

the 1st noticeable thing in that clip, besides the great offense play is the goalie and a lot of goalies make that stop today which is another matter when evaluating offensive prowess that often gets overlooked..

...

You do realize if he wasn't obstructed with 8~ times on that play he's in alone and Mario Lemeuix was one of the most dangerous breakaway players in history.

Look I think the world of both Stevie Y and Sakic but neither player has had the peak in the regular season and playoffs like Sid the Kid has so to follow your weak straw man argument is faulty.

Sakic and Yzerman never had the peak Sid had? Sid has cracked 50 goals once, and 120 points once. Yzerman broke 120 points 3 times in his prime with arguably a better or equal defensive game to Sid's. He had 5 50 goal seasons. Sakic, a better defensive player than Crosby and better playoff performer broke 50 goals twice and 120 points once. Mario Lemeuix (A guy who had cancer during his prime and a severely injured back) had 8 120+ point seasons and 6 50 goal seasons. They were just simply above and beyond Crosby's level. Crosby has never truly dominated a season, he's never been able to pull away from an Ovechkin or a Sedin like Mario did.

Yeah the players are all just bigger, faster, and stronger today. Actually the most noticeable thing is how much more skilled they are. Even if that wasn't a factor, you're completely out to lunch if you think Lemieux is scoring 150+ in today's NHL. The parity level is far greater, teams thrive off of depth more than ever, less powerplays, etc... he wouldn't be outscoring them by that much, and I truthfully think it's arguable whether or not he'd be a better overall player than Crosby or Ovechkin in today's NHL.

Mario was huge. Mario was fast. Mario was strong. Mario was the most purely skilled player there has ever been. Less powerplays, cool! Tighter penalty calling also means you can't hang onto Lemieux as he skates. Also im pretty sure if Crosby can handle two mediocre wingers on his line, Mario can as well.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Maybe you missed my main point about the clip and the goaltender in it.

Go back and look at it and specifically how the goalie tries to make the save and watch some of the games from this year again. Most goalies make that type of spot today more often then not.

since you brought it up most teams play defense a ton better than back in Mario's prime and 3 of Mario's plus 160 point seasons came in years where the average league scoring was quite a bit higher.

He only loses 4 points adjusted on his 96 season compared to around 30 points on the over 3 seasons.

i know that you don't like adjusted stats, since they get in the way of your arguments but they sure tell more of the story than going strictly on counting stats which you tend to do and dismiss the impact of the condition of the league and how it affects scoring but there it is.

look it's not like I'm saying that Mario would not be a great player in todays game and possibly the top scorer but his dominance certainly would not be as great as it was in his peak seasons, primarily 88-89. (Unless you want to argue that Denis Savard and Stevie[/B] Y would get 130 and 150 plus points in todays NHL as well?)

Yeah and most of those 160 point seasons were in much less than 80 games too.

I have told you specifically a number of times now but since you don't like to listen, I'll have to say it yet again.
I have no problem with using adjusted stats as a GUIDE!
My problem with them is when they are used as fact to replace the raw stats. Something you do endlessly around here!
THEY ARE NOT FACT, THEY ARE NOT REAL, THEY ARE MADE UP NUMBERS TO GIVE AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENT SCORING LEVELS FROM DIFFERENT SEASONS!!!

You saying that Mario wouldn't crack 150 points based on adjusted stats is absolutely no different than someone else saying Mario would crack 200 based on the raw stats.
Somewhere, there is some middle ground between the two but you are just as wrong only using adjusted stats as someone who ignores them completely.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Dude, OV is a lot closer to Sid than Sid is to Mario, seriously, give your head a shake son. Enough already.

...and are you seriously basing your argument on a 19 year old Sid vs a 37 year old Mario AND using adjusted stats at face value to boot....I love it!!!
Made me laugh hard twice now, good job.

the 19 yr old Sid to Mario's age 37 year was a direct response to something posed by the guy I was quoting.

Just like a players season and context matters so does reading a particular post and what it pertains to.

Here it is since somehow you missed it the 1st time bolded parts hopefully help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
A couple of years later, at 37, an even older and more worn down Lemieux scored at a adjusted 124 point pace over a pretty large 67 game sample size.. Jagr was long gone, Kovalev was traded, leaving Lemieux as the only 20 goal scorer on the team. Dick Tarnstrom was their best d-man. Their offense was 26th out of 30 teams.

This was an extremely slow and worn down Lemieux, with very little support, in a less-offense-friendly league, and he was on pace for more adjusted points than Crosby ever was.

Crosby and Ovechkin would be hard-pressed to outscore THAT Lemieux, let alone a good Lemieux in a good situation.

Look it was a great season, stat wise as Mario was allowed to play as he did, not that it helped the team to win very much though.

To the bolded part Sid has outscored that 37 year old Mario (PPG over a whole season adjusted 2 times already (in his 19 yr old seasons and last season as well at age 23) so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

 

[revolverjgw]

Look it was a great season, stat wise as Mario was allowed to play as he did, not that it helped the team to win very much though.

Has Ovechkin not been allowed to play HIS way throughout his career? Just the other night he was staying out full 2 minute power-plays. Only recently has he discovered "backchecking". I didn't see him in his own zone against the Habs last year.

Yeah, Lemieux wasn't effective enough to turn that Pens team into something respectable... but look at that roster, it was appalling. What did you expect a broken down 37 year old to do? How would that team have scored at all if he wasn't there?

Crosby, I'll admit, is better now than an old Lemieux, even though not necessarily being better offensively. He's very good all-around. But no way does he keep up offensively with a prime Lemieux, and no way does his defensive edge make up the difference. Plus, a prime Lemieux with modern training would be much better equipped to play a more complete game.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Yeah and most of those 160 point seasons were in much less than 80 games too.

I have told you specifically a number of times now but since you don't like to listen, I'll have to say it yet again.
I have no problem with using adjusted stats as a GUIDE!
My problem with them is when they are used as fact to replace the raw stats. Something you do endlessly around here!
THEY ARE NOT FACT, THEY ARE NOT REAL, THEY ARE MADE UP NUMBERS TO GIVE AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENT SCORING LEVELS FROM DIFFERENT SEASONS!!!

You saying that Mario wouldn't crack 150 points based on adjusted stats is absolutely no different than someone else saying Mario would crack 200 based on the raw stats.
Somewhere, there is some middle ground between the two but you are just as wrong only using adjusted stats as someone who ignores them completely.

Go back and read the end of post 86 where I stated that i think he could post up to 160 points in the perfect situation.

Where did I ever say that raw counting stats don't count, I said pretty clearly that they give a better indication of viewing 2 different seasons for either the same or different players into more context than raw counting stats do. ( You should know better as I have clarified this point numerous times on these boards, or does maybe your immediate knee jerk perception on something cloud your comprehension skills, I'm at a loss here sometimes with your responses).

I'm fully aware that they are a guide and are not real so stop the shouting already and maybe you can address the Denis Savard and Stevie Y seasons I was referring to instead of going off on your typical straw man arguments.

 

[ponder]

Strongest arguments in terms of how good a prime Lemieux would be today:

- His top scoring season was in 88/89, when he put up 85 goals and 199 points in 76 games. He was 23 at the time. Lead the league in scoring by 31 points, and 15 goals

- In 95/96, after cancer, multiple back surgeries, etc., at the age of 30, he had one of his best seasons and put up 69 goals and 161 points in just 70 games. Lead the league in goals by 7, and in points by 12, despite missing 12 games, and despite his previous health issues

- In 02/03, after all the above issues and a 3 year retirement, at the age of 34, he was still able to post 28 goals and 91 points in just 67 games. Everyone above him on the scoring list played at least 75 games, Forsberg lead the league in scoring that year with 106 points. He was basically still very close to the leading scorer in the league, in 02/03, despite being WAYYYY past his prime, after many injuries, a lengthy retirement, cancer, etc.


I don't think the game has progressed too much from 02/03 until now, and in 02/03 a well past his prime Lemieux, who was 37 and who had gone through many health issues, was still able to score at roughly the same pace as the league's leading scorer. Would he put up 199 points? Of course not, goalies are way better, defense are way better, the league in general is just a lot tougher to score in than it was in the late 80s. But would he still be around 20 points ahead of the pack like he was in his best seasons? I think it's very possible, considering his game seemed to translate very well through multiple decades. Over the past 4 years the leading scorer in the NHL has put up between 104 and 113 points, I'd say a prime, reasonably healthy Lemieux (let's give him 70 games per year, that's pretty generous for Mario) could be putting up around 110-130 points per year, while being considered a bit better than Crosby.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Post above me sums it up really well I'd say...