What If? Eric Lindros is traded to the Blackhawks for Steve Larmer, Ed Belfour +picks

[Kaners Bald Spot]

This is the more fun scenario for Hawks fans. This was a rumored deal I heard somewhere(I don't remember where though, but it was in some Hawks history book) that this trade was actually agreed upon but Bill Wirtz pulled the plug because he was Dollar Bill, and didn't want to have to pay Lindros eventually. But what if Bill Wirtz decided to open up the checkbook?
The ripple effect is huge, but in the near future:
Peter Forsberg and Ron Hextall stay in Philly
Mats Sundin probably stays in Quebec
Roy gets traded somewhere else other than Quebec/Colorado, because they have Belfour
Hasek stays in net for the Hawks, rather than getting traded to Buffalo
Late 90s ripples: Ed Belfour never goes to Dallas, Stars/Sabres 99 never happens. Also who's dominating the West in the mid-late 90s? Hawks, Wings or Colorado?

The Blackhawks have a 1-2 punch of Lindros-Roenick down the middle, with Norris level Chelios and Prime Hasek in net. How many Cups?
Eric Lindros doesn't have to play Scott Stevens all that much, because he has already left St. Louis by the time this trade happens so he never gets his brains scrambled. How many points does Lindros score in his career?

Click to read more...

 

[Pominville Knows]

I think Lindros by his goals alone beats Gretzkys points record.

 

[alko]

Any legit source of this? Or it is Eklund rumor?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

- larmer isn’t in chicago so he doesn’t have to hold out at the beginning of the 1994 season; passes unger and jarvis and probably sets the new ironman record at ~1,000 games?

- rangers keep patrick and turcotte, keenan is furious... and they don’t win the cup?

 

[blogofmike]

If things worked out, Hasek may bump Roy as #1 goalie on my list. Lindros ruined a few Buffalo playoff years for him if I recall correctly. A Lindros/Chelios/Hasek core seems like a team that should be avoided.

Or Stevens kills Lindros in the 95 Finals and Roy's history is unchanged. Whichever.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Any legit source of this? Or it is Eklund rumor?

I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but it was either an article from a major hockey online publication or a Hawks history book(career misconduct maybe?)

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

Would Quebec have really sent Lindros to Chicago without asking for Jeremy Roenick as part of the return package though?

 

[tony d]

I've heard this before. It would have been amazing just how much that could have changed things. Roy probably goes to Detroit in this scenario. Lindros and Roenick down the middle for Chicago for a few yrs. would be fun. Also Hasek probably wins Chicago a Cup sometime in the 90's.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

thinking about this a little more, man that would either have to be a crapload of draft picks, or a crapload of money. like, more money than the rangers or flyers offered, and/or more draft picks.

ricci
forsberg
hextall
duchesne
huffman
simon
1st (thibault)
1st (baumgartner)
$15 million


amonte
kovalev
vanbiesbrouck
weight or patrick (reports vary)
1st (sundstrom)
1st (cloutier)
1st (giguere)
$12 million


at the time, belfour is worth more than anyone in the flyers or rangers offers. larmer is trending down and on the wrong side of 30, but is still a very solid complementary two-way first line winger. let's say he's worth more than duchesne and maybe also a little more than beezer (because we don't know that larmer only has two years left, and we also don't know that beezer will return to vezina form).

but the flyers offer had two high end pieces (ricci, forsberg), plus a B++ piece (duchesne) and a starting goalie, before you get to the scraps, picks, and cash. the rangers offer had two slightly lesser high end pieces (amonte and kovalev), plus the goalie was a high end piece, another B+ piece (weight/patrick), plus more picks and less money.

i'd think that if it was really just belfour, larmer, picks, and cash, either pulford was offering crazy money (like $20 million-- unlikely, given that he knows who his boss is), or ponying up at least four first rounders. more likely, i think there had to be another minor piece or two in there, based on the other deal probably a defenseman who can play now and a prospect forward. given that they later traded this package for joe murphy, let's say kravchuk and dean mcammond? then probably less money because it's wirtz (so, $10 million) and two first rounders (nothing important off their future roster: as it turns out their next three first rounders were eric lecompte, ethan moreau, dmitri nabokov).

so what does a potential chicago juggernaut in '93, '94, '95, '96 and beyond look like?

lindros
roenick

chelios

hasek

---

brent sutter is still an excellent 3C up to '96; dirk graham has two more years in him; goulet is falling off but still there; ditto christian ruuttu. those guys, all good-to-excellent defensive players with a good amount of grind, allow you to still trade noonan and matteau to the keenans for amonte.

on d, steve smith lost his offensive game and had his troubles with injuries but iirc was solid for a few more years, they turn marchment into weinrich, and somehow get gary suter for scraps.

so,

lindros amonte
ruuttu roenick
goulet sutter graham

suter chelios
smith weinrich

hasek

but the problem is that team had big holes, and drafted poorly so other than eric daze (who doesn't step in until '96) there is no one good to slot in there. there were also a few ringers to fill in some gaps, but most of them came in trades for players who either are already on that roster (murray craven for ruuttu) or in trades involving guys who went in the hypothetical lindros trade (dahlen for belfour, and joe murphy for my spec of kravchuk and mcammond). so the only add here is nicholls as a free agent in the '95 season.

that gives you a very short window of the '95 season where the old keenan horses overlap with a legit reinforcement; in '96 you add young daze, but the old guys other than sutter have mostly fallen off majorly.

lindros amonte
ruuttu roenick nicholls/daze?
goulet sutter graham

suter chelios
smith weinrich

hasek

that's a great 1-2-3 punch at center with a great d and obviously hasek, but i don't know that anyone other than amonte gives you much scoring on the wing until nicholls and daze enter the lineup. i don't think i see a dynasty here, though they would be a legit contender with their big five alone (i include amonte as their fifth beatle).

 

[Sanf]

The version of this that I have heard included Steve Smith, Dykhuis couple of first and second round picks and 15 million along with Belfour and Larmer. The key idea was not to lose Roenick or Chelios. Quebec demanded even more. The problem with Wirz would have been the money involved in the trade. But this is only rumour that I have read.

 

[Brodeur]

Eric Lindros doesn't have to play Scott Stevens all that much, because he has already left St. Louis by the time this trade happens so he never gets his brains scrambled. How many points does Lindros score in his career?

Might just be me, but I think it's a misconception that the Stevens hit caused Lindros' downfall or was the start of his concussions. That was like his 5th documented concussion by that point. Bobby Clarke stripped Lindros of the captaincy a few months before the Stevens hit; Lindros was out with a concussion and thought the team misdiagnosed it, while Clarke openly questioned Lindros' toughness.

 

[SabbathBloodySabbath]

" Considered to be among those offered are goalie Ed Belfour, defenseman Steve Smith, right wing Steve Larmer, center Brent Sutter, plus young prospects Dean McAmmond and Karl Dykhuis, the Hawks` No. 1 draft picks the last two years."
Hawks Chase Lindros With Player Package

"Exactly who and how many Hawks were dangled in front of Quebec is unknown. The two key names believed to have been involved in all the formulas pieced together are goalie Ed Belfour and defenseman Steve Smith. After that, speculation was that wingers Steve Larmer and Stephane Matteau had been mentioned, as well as young prospect Dean McAmmond. In addition, the Hawks and Quebec supposedly discussed swapping as many as six to nine draft choices."
Nordiques Finally Trade Lindros-but To Whom?

***

Wirtz wouldn't give Quebec the $15M that Philadelphia would, so the deal was off.

 

[ForsbergForever]

thinking about this a little more, man that would either have to be a crapload of draft picks, or a crapload of money. like, more money than the rangers or flyers offered, and/or more draft picks.

ricci
forsberg
hextall
duchesne
huffman
simon
1st (thibault)
1st (baumgartner)
$15 million


amonte
kovalev
vanbiesbrouck
weight or patrick (reports vary)
1st (sundstrom)
1st (cloutier)
1st (giguere)
$12 million


at the time, belfour is worth more than anyone in the flyers or rangers offers. larmer is trending down and on the wrong side of 30, but is still a very solid complementary two-way first line winger. let's say he's worth more than duchesne and maybe also a little more than beezer (because we don't know that larmer only has two years left, and we also don't know that beezer will return to vezina form).

but the flyers offer had two high end pieces (ricci, forsberg), plus a B++ piece (duchesne) and a starting goalie, before you get to the scraps, picks, and cash. the rangers offer had two slightly lesser high end pieces (amonte and kovalev), plus the goalie was a high end piece, another B+ piece (weight/patrick), plus more picks and less money.

i'd think that if it was really just belfour, larmer, picks, and cash, either pulford was offering crazy money (like $20 million-- unlikely, given that he knows who his boss is), or ponying up at least four first rounders. more likely, i think there had to be another minor piece or two in there, based on the other deal probably a defenseman who can play now and a prospect forward. given that they later traded this package for joe murphy, let's say kravchuk and dean mcammond? then probably less money because it's wirtz (so, $10 million) and two first rounders (nothing important off their future roster: as it turns out their next three first rounders were eric lecompte, ethan moreau, dmitri nabokov).

so what does a potential chicago juggernaut in '93, '94, '95, '96 and beyond look like?

lindros
roenick

chelios

hasek

---

brent sutter is still an excellent 3C up to '96; dirk graham has two more years in him; goulet is falling off but still there; ditto christian ruuttu. those guys, all good-to-excellent defensive players with a good amount of grind, allow you to still trade noonan and matteau to the keenans for amonte.

on d, steve smith lost his offensive game and had his troubles with injuries but iirc was solid for a few more years, they turn marchment into weinrich, and somehow get gary suter for scraps.

so,

lindros amonte
ruuttu roenick
goulet sutter graham

suter chelios
smith weinrich

hasek

but the problem is that team had big holes, and drafted poorly so other than eric daze (who doesn't step in until '96) there is no one good to slot in there. there were also a few ringers to fill in some gaps, but most of them came in trades for players who either are already on that roster (murray craven for ruuttu) or in trades involving guys who went in the hypothetical lindros trade (dahlen for belfour, and joe murphy for my spec of kravchuk and mcammond). so the only add here is nicholls as a free agent in the '95 season.

that gives you a very short window of the '95 season where the old keenan horses overlap with a legit reinforcement; in '96 you add young daze, but the old guys other than sutter have mostly fallen off majorly.

lindros amonte
ruuttu roenick nicholls/daze?
goulet sutter graham

suter chelios
smith weinrich

hasek

that's a great 1-2-3 punch at center with a great d and obviously hasek, but i don't know that anyone other than amonte gives you much scoring on the wing until nicholls and daze enter the lineup. i don't think i see a dynasty here, though they would be a legit contender with their big five alone (i include amonte as their fifth beatle).

Maybe in this alternative reality, the Hawks get Keith Tkachuk through the offersheet he signed in '96. With him you've got a real Windy City version of the Legion of Doom with Tkachuk-Lindros-Amonte.

 

[The Panther]

... Lindros was out with a concussion and thought the team misdiagnosed it, while Clarke openly questioned Lindros' toughness.

Clarke was a real piece of work at times. Wasn't that shortly before he got angry at Roger Neilson for being ill, and told the media, "We didn't tell him to get cancer!"

 

[Thenameless]

Clarke was a real piece of work at times. Wasn't that shortly before he got angry at Roger Neilson for being ill, and told the media, "We didn't tell him to get cancer!"

It was the beauty of Clarke. Growing up, playing in the Western Leagues was like go through Seal Team training - or getting beat up by older bullies everyday after school. Then add to that the fact that he played a very physical game in an undersized body and had to overcome Type 1 diabetes - guys didn't take it easy on the sick and the weak in the 60's and 70's. He accomplished everything through sheer will power and "resourcefulness". He looks at those unable to play for any reason as soft and/or weak. You are not allowed to die until you win. I love it.

 

[Sentinel]

Why would Philadelphia need both Hextall and Belfour? I get it, one is not like the other, but in early 90s Hextall stocks were still high.

At any rate, the team of Lindros, peak Roenick, prime Chelios, and Hasek would give my Detroit fits.

Lindros would be seeing a lot of Konstantinov though. With the expected outcome.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Why would Philadelphia need both Hextall and Belfour?

Belfour would be in Quebec, not Philadelphia. Essentially, he becomes the Nordiques starter in 1992-93 instead of Hextall, while Hextall stays in Philadelphia because Quebec didn’t take the Flyers’ package.

 

[ChuckLefley]

The problem with scenarios like this is they don’t take into account other factors, like the city the players live in, coaches or teammates. As a realistic example in this thread perhaps Hasek never amounts to much more than the sub .900 Save pct. goalie he was in his first three seasons because he never works with Mitch Korn.