What If Anything do the Isles do about Goaltending???

[A Pointed Stick]

Good teams are built from the net out. The few exceptions to this are clubs like Pittsburgh that have such great talent up front they can skimp on the defense, but still require at least an average goaltender to remain solid. We have neither an average goaltender, or a solid defense, and with only one franchise forward and a bunch of guys struggling for consistency up front are left with a club that can't get over the hump, though the forward pool is at least developing on schedule. The rest are not. That is the problem with the design of this team - it was built from the forwards back, which is ass backwards particularly since we have Tavares and nothing but depth players after him.

What they need to do is transparent to 90% of you - get an above average or better goaltender as long as they plan on building the defense via the draft & develop route. Or not, and suffer through seasons like this one is shaping into, and struggle to look like they are making progress. I hear this 3_3_3 "Average" jargon being tossed around. That's 3 wins and 6 losses folks, and their play is trending towards the fall slump they always have.

To avoid this they need to do something now. We all know they won't because of budgetary reasons. Yet here we are discussing the inevitable again, like it might change anything. Sartre would say that we are all suffering in rhythm.

 

[Paulinho]

IDK why I feel so sure about this but I am almost certain Ryan Miller will be an Islander.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Good teams are built from the net out. The few exceptions to this are clubs like Pittsburgh that have such great talent up front they can skimp on the defense, but still require at least an average goaltender to remain solid. We have neither an average goaltender, or a solid defense, and with only one franchise forward and a bunch of guys struggling for consistency up front are left with a club that can't get over the hump, though the forward pool is at least developing on schedule. The rest are not. That is the problem with the design of this team - it was built from the forwards back, which is ass backwards particularly since we have Tavares and nothing but depth players after him.

What they need to do is transparent to 90% of you - get an above average or better goaltender as long as they plan on building the defense via the draft & develop route. Or not, and suffer through seasons like this one is shaping into, and struggle to look like they are making progress. I hear this 3_3_3 "Average" jargon being tossed around. That's 3 wins and 6 losses folks, and their play is trending towards the fall slump they always have.

To avoid this they need to do something now. We all know they won't because of budgetary reasons. Yet here we are discussing the inevitable again, like it might change anything. Sartre would say that we are all suffering in rhythm.

The Bruins and Blackhawks were built from the net out?

 

[Felix Unger]

IDK why I feel so sure about this but I am almost certain Ryan Miller will be an Islander.

I felt almost certain that Bernier would be an Islander. I hope you're right.

 

[Twine Seeking Missle]

IDK why I feel so sure about this but I am almost certain Ryan Miller will be an Islander.

It must be the crack rocks.

 

[Felix Unger]

I'll agree that he's better than Poulin, but if we were to sign Khudobin I still would want Nabokov here.

I meant that adding Khudobin to Nabokov would have meant 0 risk. We don't disagree at all.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Well at this point what can this team do?

1. Trade for Miller

2. Trade for Hiller

3. Trade for Halak


4. Maybe this team will trade for defense to help Nabby out?

I still think this team wants to see what Poulin has. The only way to do this is to unleash the beast and let him play! If Poulin faulters they could sign Bryz (if he even wants to come here to play). This is another reason why we should have seen what we could have had in Big Griff this season. Even for only 5 games we could have known if he was better than Carkner.

I'm sick of Nabby already. He cost us the NSH game as well as this last one. He won us the Devils game in the shootout, but where else has he came up big?

 

[A Pointed Stick]

The Bruins and Blackhawks were built from the net out?

Are you comparing the netminding and defense of the bruins and Chicago to us? You are joking, right?

Chicago with two franchise defensemen, and always a competent goalie, and Boston w/ Zdeno and company and solid goaltending? They also have had multiple franchise forwards. We fail on all three accounts...

 

[ferrisUML]

The Bruins and Blackhawks were built from the net out?

Actually, I'd say the cup winners over the last 20 years were built more from the redline in. The use of team-based defensive systems removed the requirement of a top-level goaltender to simply a mediocre or above average one. Further, the evolution of the goaltending position from save-maker to simply shot-blocker really diluted the position. Its almost like a bell curve. a bottom-5-10%, a top 5-10%, and everyone else. Many teams have won with a 'tender form the "everyone else" distribution.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

I meant that adding Khudobin to Nabokov would have meant 0 risk. We don't disagree at all.

Oh, I thought you wanted him and only him.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Are you comparing the netminding and defense of the bruins and Chicago to us? You are joking, right?

Chicago with two franchise defensemen, and always a competent goalie, and Boston w/ Zdeno and company and solid goaltending? They also have had multiple franchise forwards. We fail on all three accounts...

No, I am not. Both of those teams had a larger concentration of player acquisition and drafting on beyond the goalie. Thomas fell into BOS lap, Rask was a throw in a trade. Niemii was undrafted and signed as UFA and Crawford was drafted 2nd round 2003 - he didn't get reps until 2010 and was 'suspect' until not too long ago.

Good teams draft well, but also SPEND MONEY. That's the issue. The Isles are trying to build on the cheap. CHI didn't get anywhere until the owner died and the kid spent $$$. BOS, once Sinden was removed and spent $$$ for once started to turn the corner.

The Isles build is missing one major thing: Money. It plugs holes, gets a better coach, etc.

 

[BMOK33]

I'm confused why everyone, even seemingly Isles management does not think Poulin is an NHL goalie, if thats the case then why is he even the backup and why is he not at Bridgeport? It seems to me either Garth or Jack is not sold on Poulin given the fact he gets so few starts, to me this is the time to figure out what you may have with him, start him every 3-4 games and if by January 1st if he's posting good numbers you consider making him the #1 goalie.

 

[BMOK33]

I felt almost certain that Bernier would be an Islander. I hope you're right.

I was glad they did not go for Bernier, his relatively small size for an NHL goalie as well as minute sample size of games in the league didn't justify the price LA was asking and even though in the end I think the Leafs robbed them I get a feeling it would have at least cost the Isles Bailey or Okposo to get Bernier.

 

[PK Cronin]

No, I am not. Both of those teams had a larger concentration of player acquisition and drafting on beyond the goalie. Thomas fell into BOS lap, Rask was a throw in a trade. Niemii was undrafted and signed as UFA and Crawford was drafted 2nd round 2003 - he didn't get reps until 2010 and was 'suspect' until not too long ago.

Good teams draft well, but also SPEND MONEY. That's the issue. The Isles are trying to build on the cheap. CHI didn't get anywhere until the owner died and the kid spent $$$. BOS, once Sinden was removed and spent $$$ for once started to turn the corner.

The Isles build is missing one major thing: Money. It plugs holes, gets a better coach, etc.

It's also important to spend the money well, and not just arbitrarily throw it around.

 

[kasper11]

Unfortunately, Nino killed his value by going to the press with his trade requests and frustrations. Had that been kept in house, his value may have been high enough to package with other assets for Bernier (or Schneider). Clutterbuck was probably the best Snow could get for him and it was obvious Nino didn't want to play here. That's one non-deal I don't blame Snow at all on. However, not signing Khudobin for a one year trial deal was a mistake this summer.

Not only did Nino not have much value, but LA was pretty clear that there goal was to add a player at below the minimum salary and a backup goalie. The Isles couldn't meet that price, they didn't have the players LA wanted.

 

[scott99]

I desperately want another goalie as well. But, with a defense like this, no goalie wants to be here. We have possibly one of the worst defenses in the league. It's horrid.

It's nowhere near as bad as it was a few years ago, and Poulin had a 2.40 ga and .920 sp (pre-knee injury). Cappy isn't doing anyone any favors by playing Poulin 1 game out of 9 and every 2 weeks. He's hurting both Nabby and Poulin by doing that. It needs to be 2 games to every 1 for Nabby. 73 games left, start Nabby 48 games and poulin 25 games. BUT, that would make too much sense and take intelligence to figure out.

 

[scott99]

No, I am not. Both of those teams had a larger concentration of player acquisition and drafting on beyond the goalie. Thomas fell into BOS lap, Rask was a throw in a trade. Niemii was undrafted and signed as UFA and Crawford was drafted 2nd round 2003 - he didn't get reps until 2010 and was 'suspect' until not too long ago.

Good teams draft well, but also SPEND MONEY. That's the issue. The Isles are trying to build on the cheap. CHI didn't get anywhere until the owner died and the kid spent $$$. BOS, once Sinden was removed and spent $$$ for once started to turn the corner.

The Isles build is missing one major thing: Money. It plugs holes, gets a better coach, etc.

Agree 100%, unfortunately I don't think money will be spent until 2014-15 offseason, when we are heading to Brooklyn. I bet the 2013-14 offseason will be NO signings, due to PMB had a 2 year deal, and Regin will be replaced by Strome.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

No, I am not. Both of those teams had a larger concentration of player acquisition and drafting on beyond the goalie. Thomas fell into BOS lap, Rask was a throw in a trade. Niemii was undrafted and signed as UFA and Crawford was drafted 2nd round 2003 - he didn't get reps until 2010 and was 'suspect' until not too long ago.

Good teams draft well, but also SPEND MONEY. That's the issue. The Isles are trying to build on the cheap. CHI didn't get anywhere until the owner died and the kid spent $$$. BOS, once Sinden was removed and spent $$$ for once started to turn the corner.

The Isles build is missing one major thing: Money. It plugs holes, gets a better coach, etc.

It's also important to spend the money well, and not just arbitrarily throw it around.

I agree whole heartedly. When I said 'build' I meant it as build any way you need to. Here in Islanderland Garth is neglecting it, or being told to neglect it. Trade, draft, or free agency, a good club would have stepped up to the plate and fixed the defense, the goaltending, or both. They really do seem averse to adding anyone on defense except through dumb luck from the waiver wire trash can or drafting & developing for needs that exist now, which is 100% neglect given the relative rate for defense men to earn a top 4 spot from their draft. What to me is really stupid is their willingness to throw away entire playoffs that would pay for the players they need, and are almost eager to throw it all on the backs of the prospects, along with whatever damage is done in the process. It is one thing to ask someone to step up, it is another thing to tie a rock to their neck, kick them off the bridge, and tell them if they can't swim to the shore it is their fault.

 

[It Was 4 to 1*]

staple has already said that they're going to play the season with nabokov then try to get at starter in the offseason

Dylan -- I'd think the chances of Ryan Miller being an Islander are much better in the summer than they are at the trade deadline. No chance Snow gives up anything resembling a decent asset for a guy who's going to UFA. Lundqvist will be a Ranger, so don't get too excited about that prospect. But yes, I'd expect a big change in goal after this season.

last night and maybe the game before are really the only games i'd blame nabby on. i still don't understand why poulin doesn't get another start...

 

[blitzkriegs]

I agree whole heartedly. When I said 'build' I meant it as build any way you need to. Here in Islanderland Garth is neglecting it, or being told to neglect it. Trade, draft, or free agency, a good club would have stepped up to the plate and fixed the defense, the goaltending, or both. They really do seem averse to adding anyone on defense except through dumb luck from the waiver wire trash can or drafting & developing for needs that exist now, which is 100% neglect given the relative rate for defense men to earn a top 4 spot from their draft. What to me is really stupid is their willingness to throw away entire playoffs that would pay for the players they need, and are almost eager to throw it all on the backs of the prospects, along with whatever damage is done in the process. It is one thing to ask someone to step up, it is another thing to tie a rock to their neck, kick them off the bridge, and tell them if they can't swim to the shore it is their fault.

Garth is stingy, but also because Wang will not let him spend beyond "x" per year. One doesn't come up with inventive ways annually to protect their cap floor position because the GM wants to do that.

Oddly, lost in all this at this point, is that the core players (JT, Moulson, Nielsen, Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, etc.) who are supposed to be stepping up and contributiing on offense are actually doing it - what the team and fans were expecting.

However, the obvious weaknesses of D and G are being exposed for what they are: weaknesses.

 

[Words Of Wisdom]

It's nowhere near as bad as it was a few years ago, and Poulin had a 2.40 ga and .920 sp (pre-knee injury). Cappy isn't doing anyone any favors by playing Poulin 1 game out of 9 and every 2 weeks. He's hurting both Nabby and Poulin by doing that. It needs to be 2 games to every 1 for Nabby. 73 games left, start Nabby 48 games and poulin 25 games. BUT, that would make too much sense and take intelligence to figure out.

Don't get me wrong, I want Poulin starting as well. I'm not a fan of Nabokov, he's a back-up. I've had high hopes for Poulin before, they diminished a bit, but I still believe he can maybe be a good #1 goalie for us. Isles need to just start him now. Play him and see what we have. We're not helping our cause by just letting him watch and not seeing what type of goalie he is. I think at this point, make him the number one goalie. If he succeeds and plays well, we know what we have for the future. If he plays bad.. Then it's time to highly consider trading or signing a goalie.

But, also. As I said earlier, this defense is very bad. It's not a playoff defense and it's pretty much one of the worst in the league

 

[Isles Fan]

So if you have taken the time to read the thread about the crappy Brooklyn lease situation, and if not I encourage you to do so, dreams of signing anyone are out the window.

By agreeing to what he did in moving to Brooklyn, Wang has created a sitauation in which the Isles revenue stream is stagnet once the move. Same income year over year regardless of how well or poor they do.

I hate to be the dream killer but this team will preform as a marginal team and continue to sign the type of players they have until Wang sells. So forget Miller or anyone else.

If I were JT I'd be running to Snow asking to get the hell out of here.

 

[KnishOfTheCrease]

No goalie will succeed behind this defense. We give up too many big play/back door attemps. Sure Nabby's play cost us last night but I don't think we'd be sitting at 7-2 or 6-3 with a better goalie.

I would really like to see Poulin get a few starts to see if he can put together a string of "successful' games. IE, bailing the D and LAZY forwards out in the defensive zone. He's been healthy for over a year now and maybe he'll bounce back to his pre injury form.

 

[scott99]

No goalie will succeed behind this defense. We give up too many big play/back door attemps. Sure Nabby's play cost us last night but I don't think we'd be sitting at 7-2 or 6-3 with a better goalie.

I would really like to see Poulin get a few starts to see if he can put together a string of "successful' games. IE, bailing the D and LAZY forwards out in the defensive zone. He's been healthy for over a year now and maybe he'll bounce back to his pre injury form.

Agreed, this is a poor defense, but the last few losses are on Nabby, TERRIBLE rebound control.

 

[KnishOfTheCrease]

Agreed, this is a poor defense, but the last few losses are on Nabby, TERRIBLE rebound control.

Rebound control is an issue these days for ALL goalies due to the nature of the equipment foams and save selection. If the puck isn't caught or trapped, there is a juicy rebound. Our opponents are giving up the same rebounds, they're just doing a better job of clearing it...or we're shooting it off the post/side or the net.

The issues I'm having with Nabby are the goals he's allowing that are "squeakers". The shots that get through his arm/body & pad/glove.