What If: 1995-96 Big Ice Olympics?

[TheGoldenJet]

A few years ago I heard a radio interview in europe with former Olympic medalist and IOC executive Chiharu Igaya. He mentioned that in the 1980’s the IOC was debating whether to move the 96 Summer Olympics or the 96 Winter Olympics up to 1994 (so they would no longer be in the same year).

It was proposed and briefly debated that the 96 Summer Olympics be moved to June 1994, and that the Winter Olympics be held in late March 1996. Eventually, the 96 Winter games were moved to 1994, and the rest is history.

But the question remains: what if the Winter Olympics happened in March of 1996, as originally scheduled?

How would the rosters look? Who would have won on international ice (say Nagano won the bid)?

Assume that:
-the regular season started 2 weeks earlier, ended in mid March, same award winners etc but no all star game
-all injured players were healthy
-Mario Lemieux decides to sit this one out, as he often did (so Canada doesn’t auto-win)

I think both Canada and Russia stand out a little ahead of the rest of the pack in 1996 (the USA is up there too), but there are some really great potential lineups for most of the Big 7 countries at this point in time. It was such a talent laden era for the NHL.

Click to read more...

 

[LeafFever]

They did move them, just a couyple of years earlier.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Team Russia probably wins in 1996 on big ice, they had the best/fastest skaters. The talented Canadian teams of that period were a little slower and did not really adapt well to playing on international ice. Canada was soundly beaten by the Finns in 1998 on the big ice, and were also outplayed/defeated by the Czechs that same year.

Russia (for the only time in the last 25 years) had four #1 caliber NHL defencemen at this time, with a few others arguably on the verge of that status in the following years.

The top 9/top 4 for Russia would look like this:

OFFENCE:
Mogilny, Bure, Zhamnov, Fedorov…blazing team speed, unmatchable by any of the other national teams. All of the top 6 forwards were at their peak in 1995-96.

1ST LINE: Kamensky-Fedorov-Mogilny
Peak Sergei Fedorov (Selke version) with 200 points skating on his wings. All three players were over 6’0 and 200lbs, and at their peak. All three were also elite skaters and would light teams up on the big ice. Fedorov and Mogilny were both top ten in points this season, Mogilny was 3rd in goals.

2ND LINE: Khristich-Zhamnov-Bure
Russia’s best winger, prime Pavel Bure (there’s a thread about him just below this one) playing with an elite two-way 85 point center and a point-per-game winger? Sign me up.

3RD LINE: Kovalenko-Yashin-Kovalev
Two of the most talented players of the era in Yashin and Kovalev playing with a 32-goal scorer, peak version of Andrei Kovalenko, a player who’s style can only be described as ”Patrick Hornqvist on steroids”. Kovalenko was Russia’s net front specialist in Nagano and had 4 goals in 6 games.

4TH LINE: Shutdown line of PK forwards, led by Rangers’ shutdown center Sergei Nemchinov. Would play limited ES minutes, D-zone faceoffs only.

DEFENCE: The top 4 D were all #1 NHL caliber defencemen. All four were in their primes in 1996. Three of them were truly elite defencemen (top 15 or better). Unfortunately for their fans, Russia has not boasted such a blueline since.

1ST PAIRING: Zubov-Malakhov
Old CSKA pairing with great chemistry. Zubov was arguably one of the three best defencemen on the planet at this time. He scored over a point-per-game in Pittsburgh this season. Malakhov, a solid #1 NHL defencemen, was a 6’4” 230lb mutant with elite skating. He was even better on big ice due to his skating, playing on the top pairing for Russia’s gold medal winning 1992 Olympic team as a 23 year old, and was on the ice for 0 goals against all tournament.

2ND PAIRING: Konstantinov-D. Mironov
Konstantinov was a legitimate #1 NHL defencemen who was fourth in Norris trophy voting this year. Shanahan also commented the following year that Konstantinov would ”have won a Norris Trophy by now” if he had been born in Canada. The physical Konstantinov did win the Plus-Minus Trophy that year with a +60, and was the Norris Trophy runner-up the following season. The 6’3” 220lb Dmitry Mironov also delivered huge hits on occasion, but was more known for his offense. He was Anaheim’s #1 defencemen in 1996-97 and finished 6th in league scoring (5th in points/game). He was an all-star in 1998 and a lower end #1 NHL defencemen at his peak.

3RD PAIRING: Any two of Zhitnik/Karpovtsev/B.Mironov/Kaspairitis/Yushkevich/Gonchar, there were plenty quality defencemen to choose from for a limited third pairing role.

GOALTENDERS: Shtalenkov, Khabibulin
Khabibulin more known for his elite play on NHL ice, Shtalenkov more known for his elite play on international ice, while winning Olympic Silver and Olympic Gold as Russia’s starting goalie at two Olympic tournaments.

 

[ForsbergForever]

I assume Canada's roster would basically be their 1996 World Cup line-up. Though their blueline was highly suspect with no Bourque or MacInnis, instead they replaced them with the rather questionable choices of Sylvain Cote and Lyle Odelein. They Still had Stevens, Blake, Niedermayer, Foote, Desjardins and Jovanovski but missing two Hall of Famers obviously hurt. Maybe Lemieux might have decided to play if it had been the Olympics instead of WC, a Gretzky/Lemieux reunion would have been something to see.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I assume Canada's roster would basically be their 1996 World Cup line-up. Though their blueline was highly suspect with no Bourque or MacInnis, instead they replaced them with the rather questionable choices of Sylvain Cote and Lyle Odelein. They Still had Stevens, Blake, Niedermayer, Foote, Desjardins and Jovanovski but missing two Hall of Famers obviously hurt. Maybe Lemieux might have decided to play if it had been the Olympics instead of WC, a Gretzky/Lemieux reunion would have been something to see.

So you think Canada would ice:

Damphousse-Gretzky-Linden
Graves-Messier-C.Lemieux
Shanahan-Lindros-Primeau
Brind’Amour-Sakic-Fleury

Coffey-Foote
Stevens-Desjardins
Niedermayer-Blake
Cote-Odelein

Joseph

..in March 1996? Which was their WCoH lineup. I agree adding Mario Lemieux makes this a clear favourite. Bourque never cleared 60 points again post-96 regular season so while his absence was a loss I’m not sure how great he would have done on the big ice at that stage (close to 36 years old). Gretzky similarly was no longer a top 10 point scorer (or top 10 in PPG) by 95/9, and his pigeon holing as the team’s 1C might have actually weakened the team at this stage as most other nations had better 1C’s than a 36 year old Gretzky. Still despite the lack of overall team speed, the talent level makes this team one of the co-favourites for gold on the big ice. On NHL ice I think they are clear favourites for gold.

 

[Wings4Life]

Kamensky-Fedorov-Mogilny
Khristich-Zhamnov-Bure
Kovalenko-Yashin-Kovalev

Zubov-Malakhov
Konstantinov-D. Mironov

Shtalenkov, Khabibulin

That top 6 would have elite speed in today's NHL or best-on-best tournaments. Back in the 90's, man...that is insane levels of speed. Also impressive is that the top pairing has the wheels to keep up with them.

I am thinking Russia wins a 95/96 Olympics on international-sized ice.

 

[Sentinel]

Big ice or small ice, it would take unusual amount of coherence for Russia to win. It would all boil down to coaching and team atmosphere.

P.S. Khristich was Ukrainian.

 

[JackSlater]

Presumably almost the same rosters as in the World Cup that took place just a few months later, though with healthy players added. For Canada for instance the same team but with Bourque, MacInnis, Kariya and Francis. USA gets Roenick. Canada has the best roster but who knows who wins. Canada and USA probably perform worse than they did at the 1996 World Cup as the players are not all that accustomed to large ice.

 

[Wings4Life]

P.S. Khristich was Ukrainian.

Good point, but so was Zhitnik and he played for Russia at the 1998 Winter games. A lot of players from other eastern bloc countries who played under the Soviet flag internationally (as Khristich did) could and would represent Russia in the mid 90s. Khristich didn't represent Ukraine until the 2000s so if he was invited to represent Russia in 1996 one would think he would accept, like his countrymen did.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I assume Canada's roster would basically be their 1996 World Cup line-up. Though their blueline was highly suspect with no Bourque or MacInnis, instead they replaced them with the rather questionable choices of Sylvain Cote and Lyle Odelein. They Still had Stevens, Blake, Niedermayer, Foote, Desjardins and Jovanovski but missing two Hall of Famers obviously hurt. Maybe Lemieux might have decided to play if it had been the Olympics instead of WC, a Gretzky/Lemieux reunion would have been something to see.

Odelein was questionable for sure. Who deserved to be selected over Cote?

 

[smokingwriter]

Team Russia probably wins in 1996 on big ice, they had the best/fastest skaters. The talented Canadian teams of that period were a little slower and did not really adapt well to playing on international ice. Canada was soundly beaten by the Finns in 1998 on the big ice, and were also outplayed/defeated by the Czechs that same year.

Russia (for the only time in the last 25 years) had four #1 caliber NHL defencemen at this time, with a few others arguably on the verge of that status in the following years.

The top 9/top 4 for Russia would look like this:

OFFENCE:
Mogilny, Bure, Zhamnov, Fedorov…blazing team speed, unmatchable by any of the other national teams. All of the top 6 forwards were at their peak in 1995-96.

1ST LINE: Kamensky-Fedorov-Mogilny
Peak Sergei Fedorov (Selke version) with 200 points skating on his wings. All three players were over 6’0 and 200lbs, and at their peak. All three were also elite skaters and would light teams up on the big ice. Fedorov and Mogilny were both top ten in points this season, Mogilny was 3rd in goals.

2ND LINE: Khristich-Zhamnov-Bure
Russia’s best winger, prime Pavel Bure (there’s a thread about him just below this one) playing with an elite two-way 85 point center and a point-per-game winger? Sign me up.

3RD LINE: Kovalenko-Yashin-Kovalev
Two of the most talented players of the era in Yashin and Kovalev playing with a 32-goal scorer, peak version of Andrei Kovalenko, a player who’s style can only be described as ”Patrick Hornqvist on steroids”. Kovalenko was Russia’s net front specialist in Nagano and had 4 goals in 6 games.

4TH LINE: Shutdown line of PK forwards, led by Rangers’ shutdown center Sergei Nemchinov. Would play limited ES minutes, D-zone faceoffs only.

DEFENCE: The top 4 D were all #1 NHL caliber defencemen. All four were in their primes in 1996. Three of them were truly elite defencemen (top 15 or better). Unfortunately for their fans, Russia has not boasted such a blueline since.

1ST PAIRING: Zubov-Malakhov
Old CSKA pairing with great chemistry. Zubov was arguably one of the three best defencemen on the planet at this time. He scored over a point-per-game in Pittsburgh this season. Malakhov, a solid #1 NHL defencemen, was a 6’4” 230lb mutant with elite skating. He was even better on big ice due to his skating, playing on the top pairing for Russia’s gold medal winning 1992 Olympic team as a 23 year old, and was on the ice for 0 goals against all tournament.

2ND PAIRING: Konstantinov-D. Mironov
Konstantinov was a legitimate #1 NHL defencemen who was fourth in Norris trophy voting this year. Shanahan also commented the following year that Konstantinov would ”have won a Norris Trophy by now” if he had been born in Canada. The physical Konstantinov did win the Plus-Minus Trophy that year with a +60, and was the Norris Trophy runner-up the following season. The 6’3” 220lb Dmitry Mironov also delivered huge hits on occasion, but was more known for his offense. He was Anaheim’s #1 defencemen in 1996-97 and finished 6th in league scoring (5th in points/game). He was an all-star in 1998 and a lower end #1 NHL defencemen at his peak.

3RD PAIRING: Any two of Zhitnik/Karpovtsev/B.Mironov/Kaspairitis/Yushkevich/Gonchar, there were plenty quality defencemen to choose from for a limited third pairing role.

GOALTENDERS: Shtalenkov, Khabibulin
Khabibulin more known for his elite play on NHL ice, Shtalenkov more known for his elite play on international ice, while winning Olympic Silver and Olympic Gold as Russia’s starting goalie at two Olympic tournaments.

Would be difficult to bet against a Canadian team with a reasonably healthy Lemieux and Bourque on the roster. Roy would presumably help, too. The 1996 Canadian World Cup team had too many injuries, relied too heavily on the wrong players, and was missing some very key pieces. If the team's healthy in early 1996, and has all (or most) of the pieces in place, it should be rightly viewed as the favourite.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Would be difficult to bet against a Canadian team with a reasonably healthy Lemieux and Bourque on the roster. Roy would presumably help, too. The 1996 Canadian World Cup team had too many injuries, relied too heavily on the wrong players, and was missing some very key pieces. If the team's healthy in early 1996, and has all (or most) of the pieces in place, it should be rightly viewed as the favourite.

Agreed imo Canada looks like this

M.Lemieux-Gretzky-Francis
Shanahan-Sakic-Lindros
Graves-Messier-Verbeek
Brind’Amour-Yzerman-Fleury

Bourque-Coffey
Stevens-MacInnis
Niedermayer-Blake

Roy
Joseph
Brodeur

Hard to bet against this even with the Russians, and an improving American team. As an American 96 is an amazing feat, but I'm not sure we would have beaten this team 2 out of 3 just too good.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Would be difficult to bet against a Canadian team with a reasonably healthy Lemieux and Bourque on the roster. Roy would presumably help, too. The 1996 Canadian World Cup team had too many injuries, relied too heavily on the wrong players, and was missing some very key pieces. If the team's healthy in early 1996, and has all (or most) of the pieces in place, it should be rightly viewed as the favourite.

I agree Canada with Mario Lemieux playing is the clear favourite, that’s why I added a note in the OP saying we are assuming he sits out, as he was known to do in that time period.

I think the USA and Sweden have good teams, but Russia with their speed, elite two-way Centers, and unusually good defence is the biggest challenge for Canada in this time period.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Would be difficult to bet against a Canadian team with a reasonably healthy Lemieux and Bourque on the roster. Roy would presumably help, too. The 1996 Canadian World Cup team had too many injuries, relied too heavily on the wrong players, and was missing some very key pieces. If the team's healthy in early 1996, and has all (or most) of the pieces in place, it should be rightly viewed as the favourite.

The 160 point version of Lemieux tilts it for Canada if that was the case, but I was going along with the thought in the OP that Lemieux would decline to participate in this tournament back in March 1996. Borque was still quite good but at that point in his career (after the 1996 regular season) he was no longer the two way force he used to be. Also having the trounament on big ice does an older Borque no favors.

I think that Russian team has no real weaknesses. It would have too much speed up front, too much chemistry (Fedorov/Mogilny/Bure, and Zubov/Malakhov all having played together for years on big ice), and enough talent in all positions to pull off a gold medal victory.

 

[Big Phil]

If this is February 1996 Canada looks a little different than in September 1996 because some players would be there. This is just a guess:

Kariya-Lemieux-Yzerman
Shanahan-Lindros-Neely
Sakic-Gretzky-Fleury
BrindAmour-Messier-Recchi
Francis

Bourque-MacInnis
Coffey-Blake
Stevens-Niedermayer
Pronger

Roy
Brodeur
Belfour

Yeah.............that team is not losing. How could they?