What happened with Thornton’s goal scoring?

[Yozhik v tumane]

Joe Thornton is an all-time great playmaker, and really known for not being much of a finisher at all.

But at the height of the DPE with the Bruins he had seasons scoring 36 and 37 goals while missing games: high end scoring finishes for the time, barely missing out on the top 10.

After the lockout, he never cracked 30 goals again. He had six 20+ goal seasons, twice netting 29 in 81 and 82 games respectively, but was more known for a long series of pretty ridiculous assists-to-goal ratios.

How would you explain Thornton peaking as a goal scorer in Boston before the lockout?

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[VanIslander]

Defensemen got smaller on average but faster. His passing ability became more valuable as he surged against quicker-checking dmen.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Joe Thornton is an all-time great playmaker, and really known for not being much of a finisher at all.

But at the height of the DPE with the Bruins he had seasons scoring 36 and 37 goals while missing games: high end scoring finishes for the time, barely missing out on the top 10.

After the lockout, he never cracked 30 goals again. He had six 20+ goal seasons, twice netting 29 in 81 and 82 games respectively, but was more known for a long series of pretty ridiculous assists-to-goal ratios.

How would you explain Thornton peaking as a goal scorer in Boston before the lockout?

Boston wanted him to be a power forward. Notice he was also putting up 100+ penalty minutes in Boston. Some people think he wasn't the same after Lindros broke his face in a fight. Others think it was after he signed a new 5-year contract with Boston that he decided the hell with power forward stuff. Bruins traded him to Sharks and the Sharks let him play his softer setup guy role.

 

[Brodeur]

One thing that sticks out is Thornton having a career high 19 PP goals (and only 7 PP assists) in 2000-01. Maybe the explanation for that season was that Thornton was on the same PP unit as Jason Allison at the height of his playmaking powers? Allison was 3rd in the league (behind Oates/Lidstrom) in PP assists that season.

I can't say I watched Boston back then, but it would seem like Thornton was used more as a finisher while Allison was the set up man. Looks like Boston typically used four forwards with Allison, Thornton, Guerin/Samsonov, and Rolston. I think they'd use Rolston as a big shot option at the top. Not sure if Thornton or Guerin would have been the net front guy / bumper though.

Boston decided that they didn't want to pay Allison after his 95 point season and traded him. Then Thornton's PP splits became closer to his career norms after taking over Allison's role. Thornton also just took fewer shots after being traded to San Jose. With the Sharks he took ~1.71 shots/game (140 per season) versus ~2.08 with the Bruins (170 per season).

 

[BraveCanadian]

He became super super soft and a perimeter player. You don't score from there.

Through some combination of his back issues and self-preservation, Gretzky became much more a perimeter player as his career went on as well.. but Gretzky wasn't 6'4 and 220lbs, either.

 

[SniperHF]

How would you explain Thornton peaking as a goal scorer in Boston before the lockout?

Goal scorers tend to peak in goal scoring earlier, it's not that unusual. IMO that's the simplest explanation. It's not like his goal scoring fell off a cliff till the 2010's anyway.

Between the tactics changes post lockout and the normal goal scoring curve I think that's pretty much all it is.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

His 00-01 season has always made me laugh. 37 goals to 34 assists, which was so clearly not him and a huge outlier. Even when you go back to his OHL days his assists far outweighed his goal totals.

I asked about that before and I believe they said they used him in a different role on the PP that year.

37 and 36 goals, regardless of role suggests that he had the ability to find the back of net. But unlike Forsberg and even to a lesser extent Datsyuk - two guys who barely hit 30 goal seasons in their careers - Thornton’s goal scoring didn’t ever pick up in the playoffs. He once hit 4 goals in a postseason. That’s it. You have to think that inability to change his game and attack himself more is not coincidental to his playoff legacy.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Did Thornton ever stand in front of the net on the PP in those early 2000s years with BOS? If they wanted him to be a power forward, that would be a natural place to put him (like Leclair, Tkachuk, Graves, etc.). Could that explain the higher goal totals?

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Several good answers. I don’t know, it’s so difficult to get my head around him having had the ability to score goals at a 40+ goal pace per 82 games, yet wouldn’t find it in him to adapt his game to channel that player ever so slightly through all those disappointing playoff runs, for example.

Something that struck me about Thornton weirdly having a short but pretty high peak as a goal scorer in Boston, that probably is just a coincidence, but a decade earlier they had another rather one-dimensional (I mean this only in terms of point production) playmaking center having an uncharacteristic peak as a top goal scorer, when Oates scored 45 goals in 1992-93 (of course). Oates scored 42% of his career goals in the 27,5% of his career spent with the Bruins.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Mr. Bonvie has got it. They tried to make him a bruiser who could do everything and he was not that.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Did Thornton ever stand in front of the net on the PP in those early 2000s years with BOS? If they wanted him to be a power forward, that would be a natural place to put him (like Leclair, Tkachuk, Graves, etc.). Could that explain the higher goal totals?

No, not really. You could tell he did not care for it. He did set up on the left side quite a bit during one of his big goal scoring years.

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

Mr. Bonvie has got it. They tried to make him a bruiser who could do everything and he was not that.

Yup, he was no Cam Neely

 

[quietbruinfan]

Yup, he was no Cam Neely

He was almost no Joe Thornton. He earned the nickname "no show Joe."

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

He was almost no Joe Thornton. He earned the nickname "no show Joe."

He was good in those Bernie and Phyl's commercials though

 

[McGarnagle]

About the 2000-2001 outlier, remember that that was the Mike Keenan year. He probably got the most physical play out of Thornton of any coach he ever had. But it only lasted about 3/4 of a year.

 

[The Panther]

I'm sure it was just one of those things where Thornton was pushed into being something that he wasn't. The Bruins wanted another Cam Neely and Joe seemed to have the size and skill.

It's also possible, as someone said, that after he signed his first really big contract, he thought, "Yeah, I'm not going to go to the front of the net and get pounded by Stevens and Lindros anymore", so he somewhat consciously decided to play on the perimeter more. This was a head-hunting era.