What happened to the New Jersey Devils?

Spirit of McMullen

3 since 82
Apr 19, 2018
161
43
He turned Adam Larsson and a couple draft picks into Taylor Hall and Kyle Palmieri.

Sure, but Adam Larsson was the 2011 draft lottery winner, not some unknown. And it took a telephone call to ask Chiarelli and wait for a Yes or No response. That trade falls under what Chiarelli's response was.

The answer to that would be was it pure genius by Shero, or ineptness from Chiarelli, or a draw? A 10 year old could have offered up Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall.

But the Palmieri trade was an excellent trade nonetheless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aufheben

Monsieur Verdoux

Registered User
Dec 6, 2016
1,881
2,730
Finland
Sure, but Adam Larsson was the 2011 draft lottery winner, not some unknown. And it took a telephone call to ask Chiarelli and wait for a Yes or No response. That trade falls under what Chiarelli's response was.

The answer to that would be was it pure genius by Shero, or ineptness from Chiarelli, or a draw? A 10 year old could have offered up Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall.

But the Palmieri trade was an excellent trade nonetheless.
It's funny how you need to downgrade the work Shero has done in the Devils. He is not a perfect GM, but some of your arguments are just ridiculous.
 

Uncle Scrooge

Hockey Bettor
Nov 14, 2011
13,502
8,048
Helsinki
Clueless post.

They went 16-3-1 to close the season out and that’s why they made the playoffs. Do some of you just post on here to get checked?? Seriously man, this is awful

If you’re going to call my post clueless at least get your facts straight, otherwise you just make yourself look like a moron
 
  • Like
Reactions: NinjaKick

Spirit of McMullen

3 since 82
Apr 19, 2018
161
43
It's funny how you need to downgrade the work Shero has done in the Devils. He is not a perfect GM, but some of your arguments are just ridiculous.

What are you talking about?

I already complimented him on the Palmieri trade and although not mentioned here, the Maroon & Grabner trades were decent depth moves at the time to take a shot at the playoffs that in the end, didn't work out.

Ty Smith & Jesper Bratt look to be a good picks as well, but time will tell. And the Butcher signing looks good too, although the entire defense is a mess.

But let's not kid ourselves, he didn't offer up an unknown, failed defenseman for Taylor Hall. Chiarelli took a chance on a younger, still-developing defenseman with a lot of upside. It really wasn't a reach.

And let's not forget Taylor Hall's horrible 20 goal/53 point first season in NJ either. Forget about that? Or can that be blamed somehow on Lou and Conte too?

And I guess I won't give Shero credit for selecting Nico Hischier in 2017, the consensus #1 at the time, as Nolan Patrick was recovering from surgery. But I guess easily selecting the consensus #1 overall and not giving him credit for doing so would be "downgrading" his work too.

I really think some of you uber-Shero supporters really need to perhaps listen to some of what the Pens fans are saying here to get a different perspective, rather than keep perpetually blaming everything on Lou & Conte for the next 20 years.
 

blood gin

Registered User
Jan 17, 2017
4,174
2,203
Horrible goaltending. Not much more than that. When it comes to Schneider it's revolting goaltending. The defense has not been great either but the goaltending makes them look worse than they should.

Doesn't look like there will be a turnaround this year since Schneider is pretty much finished. The injuries of the last few years and surgeries have taken their toll and he is unable to compete at this level anymore. And while Kinkaid has his moments, he's not a starter.
 

haak84

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
4,141
2,310
It should be noted that during that stretch of above average goaltending he had his two worst losses where Toronto scored 6 and Tampa scored 7. It really is like a different team when Cory starts too as they've never scored more than 3 goals for him. In 5 of Kinkaid's wins they have scored more than 3 goals and when they have scored 3 or less he's lost 10. And while Cory hasn't played well he has also been subjected to the same awful defense at times that KK has so it's not like all his losses where solely on him but a lot of people make it out that way.

ok so then it really was above average goaltending. should also be noted that if you watched those tampa and toronto games, the devils were absolutely dominated.

are you a cory apologist? kinkaids 5 worst starts are legit the same as the 5 games cory has started. nothing about what i posted was false. if the devils received average to above average goaltending from their backup then they would not be 0-5 when he starts.

and see the post above. theres a lot more to it than horrible goaltending. kinkaid has 3 or 4 poor starts. schneider has 4. for the other 2/3rds of starts the devils have been outplayed in all but 7 games.

kinkaid is 9-7 with a 2.7 gaa and .911 save % in regulation. hes been an average starter to say the very least. he is around 17th-20th best in most corsica goaltending categories. there is legit a handful of goalies that would actually make a difference on this team and that still would probably only equate to a couple of wins.
 

haak84

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
4,141
2,310
HDSV% 5v5 (out of 63):
Kinkaid: 18th
Schneider: 60th

GSAA (out of 65):
Kinkaid: 20th
Schneider: 57th

dSV% (out of 65):
Kinkaid: 22nd
Schneider: 64th

Kinkaid has been fine. If the team had a little more luck, better back up goaltending, and some better coaching they'd be fighting for a playoff spot in the weak metro
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,727
29,179
HDSV% 5v5 (out of 63):
Kinkaid: 18th
Schneider: 60th

GSAA (out of 65):
Kinkaid: 20th
Schneider: 57th

dSV% (out of 65):
Kinkaid: 22nd
Schneider: 64th

Kinkaid has been fine. If the team had a little more luck, better back up goaltending, and some better coaching they'd be fighting for a playoff spot in the weak metro
Ehhhhhhhh........ close to the bottom 1/3rd in goaltending considering their lack of scoring talent outside of one line isn't exactly a recipe for fighting for the playoffs.
 

haak84

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
4,141
2,310
Ehhhhhhhh........ close to the bottom 1/3rd in goaltending considering their lack of scoring talent outside of one line isn't exactly a recipe for fighting for the playoffs.

I'm not saying it is. And that's not really the bottom third for Kinkaid. it's right in the middle of the pack for starting goalies as theres only a 200 minute limit. horrible goaltending is only a half truth and KK has shown he is a capable starter.

Schneider has legitimately been one of the worst goalies in the league.
 

NYR713

Registered User
Jun 26, 2012
2,084
282
Lou's refusal to actually rebuild for all those years is still a huge reason for where NJ is right now. Let's not forget about the Kovalchuk debacle. Besides trying to compete when the team wasn't there, Lou had 3 seasons to choose where to give up his 1st rd pick as punishment for Kovy contract. Instead of using the season in 11-12 where they magically made a Finals run as the 1st rd pick to give up, he decided to keep the pick and take Stefan Matteau. Then he traded #9 (Horvat) for Schneider the following season, which wasn't a bad deal so I won't rip on that but they should have been starting the rebuild. Then he's forced to lose his 2014 pick, but NHL is gracious enough to change that to the 30th pick (Quenneville) instead of losing a 1st rd pick completely. Devils would have been picking 11th that year and there were plenty of better players that could have been selected that would help the Devils more than both Matteau and Quenneville have combined... which is pretty much nothing.

Shero has his flaws but has made some good moves. But, nobody is fixing that mess in just 3 years especially when Shero's first draft pick is a #6 overall in 2015 and takes Zacha... yikes.
 

Spirit of McMullen

3 since 82
Apr 19, 2018
161
43
Lou's refusal to actually rebuild for all those years is still a huge reason for where NJ is right now. Let's not forget about the Kovalchuk debacle. Besides trying to compete when the team wasn't there, Lou had 3 seasons to choose where to give up his 1st rd pick as punishment for Kovy contract. Instead of using the season in 11-12 where they magically made a Finals run as the 1st rd pick to give up, he decided to keep the pick and take Stefan Matteau. Then he traded #9 (Horvat) for Schneider the following season, which wasn't a bad deal so I won't rip on that but they should have been starting the rebuild. Then he's forced to lose his 2014 pick, but NHL is gracious enough to change that to the 30th pick (Quenneville) instead of losing a 1st rd pick completely. Devils would have been picking 11th that year and there were plenty of better players that could have been selected that would help the Devils more than both Matteau and Quenneville have combined... which is pretty much nothing.

Shero has his flaws but has made some good moves. But, nobody is fixing that mess in just 3 years especially when Shero's first draft pick is a #6 overall in 2015 and takes Zacha... yikes.

Lou traded for Schneider before Kovalchuk retired. They were a year removed from forcing a game 7 of the SCF. Schnieder was 27 and Kovalchuk had just turned 30 and was in his prime. They were rebuilding and trying to make up for the loss of Parise the year before and eventual retirement of Brodeur. Can't do that overnight. And trading for Schneider is rebuilding.

And how do you know the Devils would have even selected Horvat in that draft to begin with? They could have drafted a different player, made a different trade, or traded up or down, etc.

And has been stated earlier, Shero could have traded Schneider (when he already gave up on that 2016 season at the trade deadline) when he was playing well, getting him to waive his NTC-NMC and gotten a player perhaps of equal value or better than Horvat. Or draft picks or prospects that turned out better than or equal to Horvat.
 
Last edited:

42

Registered User
Sep 8, 2013
8,587
6,624
Toronto Nebula
Schneider is done, Kinkaid is not a #1 goalie, defence is bottom 6 in the league, Hall is good but not great like he was last year, Hischier hasn't taken a step forward from last year(he's actually worse than his rookie year). Rest of forwards are very meh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NinjaKick

MarAlain MongYeo

GostisBeHere Now
Oct 22, 2016
1,740
964
They're still a young and rebuilding team. I dont think it was reasonable to expect them to be a perennial playoff team yet.
 

Jack Be Quick

Hasek Is Right
Mar 17, 2011
4,785
3,162
Brooklyn
Lou's refusal to actually rebuild for all those years is still a huge reason for where NJ is right now. Let's not forget about the Kovalchuk debacle. Besides trying to compete when the team wasn't there, Lou had 3 seasons to choose where to give up his 1st rd pick as punishment for Kovy contract. Instead of using the season in 11-12 where they magically made a Finals run as the 1st rd pick to give up, he decided to keep the pick and take Stefan Matteau. Then he traded #9 (Horvat) for Schneider the following season, which wasn't a bad deal so I won't rip on that but they should have been starting the rebuild. Then he's forced to lose his 2014 pick, but NHL is gracious enough to change that to the 30th pick (Quenneville) instead of losing a 1st rd pick completely. Devils would have been picking 11th that year and there were plenty of better players that could have been selected that would help the Devils more than both Matteau and Quenneville have combined... which is pretty much nothing.

Shero has his flaws but has made some good moves. But, nobody is fixing that mess in just 3 years especially when Shero's first draft pick is a #6 overall in 2015 and takes Zacha... yikes.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with a rangers fan here, but this is pretty much the case.

The only issue I have with this post - and with what a lot of others are saying itt - is that Zacha was a Shero pick. Was he the gm and should he have had the brass ovaries to stand up to Lou who was still president, with his head drunky-mc-drunkenface scout in place, and Devils royalty at the time? In retrospect? Obviously. But tell me which one of you would do that in the same position at your new job.

Trash Shero all you like, but Zacha being a Devil instead of Barzal is on Lou imo.

For the record I'm also not a revisionist Lou basher, will be forever grateful, and still think the Schneider move was the right one at the time. He was widely considered to be a top 5 goalie in the league at the time, they had no heir apparent to Marty in the pipeline, and I take a vezina capable goalie over bo horvat every day all day.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NYR713

voyageur

Hockey fanatic
Jul 10, 2011
9,467
8,157
I think a lot of the teams they were competing with, improved. At the trade deadline last year, or in the offseason. Talent was never exceptional, defense is average, goaltending has fallen slightly below. I think it's s natural correction from an overachieving year.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
129,933
57,160
Too many underachievers. The biggest being Schneider, Zacha, Wood, Johansson and maybe Butcher. All of these players are producing significantly less than either last season or their career totals. The only real overachievers right now are Blake Coleman and Mirco Mueller. Zacha needed to take a step forward, but is on pace for only 20 points and spent a couple weeks in the minors because he went the first 10 games without a single point. He only even got his first assist a couple games ago.

Some of these players I listed may not be underachieving as much as they just aren't good enough or in Schneider's case, they're absolutely shot to shit and have nothing left in the tank.

A couple of vets are out of gas. Andy Greene and Ben Lovejoy being the biggest, along with the aforementioned Cory Schneider. I'd be very happy if at least two of them were gone next year. Lovejoy is a UFA, so he probably goes and Greene is terrible and probably needs to play 16 minutes a night to be competent anymore. Schneider needs to be bought out immediately 48 hours after the SCF ends, when the window opens and not a second later. If he can finish the season somewhere around .910%-.915%, I'd be alright with keeping him one more year as a VERY sheltered backup, then letting the very probable amnesty buyout (or two) during the next CBA in a year or two take care of the rest of that albatross. Eye test tells me he's finished and he's about to go for probably an NHL record of consecutive games of allowing a goal on the first shot of the game. And if Shero isn't gonna use the f***in cap space than use some of it on Schneider's dead cap hit for the next 6 years.

One really big problem is the power play. We have a new power play coach this year and he's VERY bad.

Hynes sucks and isn't a good coach, but he can't be faulted when he only has one serviceable goalie. If I were Hynes though, I would fire the power play coach personally or ask Shero to do it. It might even prolong his job security. It was a bad mistake to hire Kowalsky, who was a mediocre head coach in the AHL for years. This was Hynes vouching for him to be the new assistant to Shero. It was his idea, which Shero seemed reluctant to do.

Last but not least, it's time for Shero to start feeling the heat if he doesn't have a huge offseason. We can say the rebuild isn't complete, but we're already looking at what could be the worst season since he's been here and we're 4 years into this rebuild. The team already has fewer points after 26 games than they did in any of the first 3 seasons Shero and Hynes have been here. There's a lack of criticism towards Shero right now in Devils land. Everyone wants to blame the coach, the goalie, the players. That's all fine and they all do deserve to be shredded, but it's Shero that keeps this goalie tandem together and doesn't send Schneider to the AHL. It's Shero that keeps this f***in brutal coaching staff intact. I don't know if his plan is to rebuild until Hall is 30-31 years old, but if it is, I can assume Hall doesn't wanna be a part of it and wasting a couple prime years still rebuilding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dialamo

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,883
10,421
Last year they heavily overachieved, and were led by an insanely good run by Taylor Hall. This year, they are probably closer to the level of team they actually are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BHD

BKarchitect

Registered User
Oct 12, 2017
7,119
12,065
Kansas City, MO
I mean you’ve got a defensive core of Severson, Vatanen, Greene, Muller, Lovejoy, Butcher and Santini in front of the broken corpse of Schneider and pleasantly average Kinkaid.

Severson has bounced back and Muller is solid but it’s not enough. Vatanen never was the guy who at times looked like a #1-2 defender last season - he’s always been more of a #3. Greene has gotten old. Lovejoy is the definition of bottom pair. Butcher racked up assists last year playing third pair minutes and has replaced assists with turnovers this season while still being a third pairing guy. He was never going to live up to the early stats hype, he’s a small third pairing, offensively inclined defender who is not helping if he’s making mistakes. And Santini can’t buy minutes even though it’s not like a who’s who of depth in front of him.

Hischier-Hughes sounds tasty but if they end up with Byram (not picking 1 or 2) to add to Smith on the blueline - that might be the kind of defensive personnel reinforcement the team needs.
 

NJ DevLolz

The Many Saints of Newark
Sep 30, 2017
4,569
5,399
Impossible to win when you're getting sub .900 goaltending. Not to mention they are 0-5 in overtime this year, which is a crapshoot. Honestly the differences between last year to this year are:
  • Goaltending. Schneider carried the team the first third of the year; in the second third, you saw similar results to what you see now; in the final third, Kinkaid carried.
  • Hall went from superhuman to just really good.
  • The PP went from 10th to 18th and has looked really bad in the process.
  • Very low shooting percentage. Some of this is due to luck, some of this is a lack in execution.
Honestly, the team is probably playing better than they did last year, but goaltending and (lack of) luck is doing them in.
 

StoneHands

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
6,608
3,674
- Their roster isn't very good. This is pretty obvious.

- It was extremely unlikely that Hall would continue to play at a 100 point pace again this season and that's the main reason they made the playoffs last year. He's a great player so I'm not taking anything away from him but he's never been close to as good as he was last year.

- The Devils were extremely efficient in 1 goal games last season. They finished 25-8-9 in 1 goal games and they were 19-21 in all other games. This season they are 2-6-5 in 1 goal games.

- They were 30-0-2 when leading after 2 periods last year earning a staggering 62 of a possible 64 points. This season they are 6-1-3 which may seem like a good record but ultimately it means they only won 6 out of 10 games when they had the lead in the 3rd and only earned 15 of a possible 20 points. Those 5 points they lost out on would be enough to make them a bubble team right now.

The last two stats show they are not getting the same goaltending and aren't playing as tight defensively as last season. Last year they weren't blowing leads and they were winning the close games. This year they're blowing some leads and losing the close games. From the 3rd period on they have given up 38 goals and only scored 25. That's almost their entire goal differential.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->