What does Vegas do differently than us?

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
Vegas has my boy Shea Theodore and he is a stud dman.

If I was drafting for my Leafs in 2013 then Theodore would be a Leaf today instead of Leafs drafting no offense Freddy Gauthier instead.

He would be a difference maker now, but now Vegas is benefiting.
Freddy was big, Burke likes em' big.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
Look at ALL of their careers prior to this year. How many aren’t dramatically over performing? Where was this before. It is like a 20 man contract year.
I wouldn't really say that they are over-performing. Most of the key players were guys that had been held back by quality guys ahead of them in the depth charts, but who had shown every sign of being someone who could play further up the lineup. So they are not outperforming their previous years as much as finally getting an opportunity.

Karlsson is the big outlier. There was absolutely no reason to expect anything like this. None at all.
 

luvdahattymatty

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
511
405
Karlsson was huge. It happens too quite a few younger guys who play on 3rd and 4th lines though. All of a sudden they get a break and move up and play with a lot more skill on 1st or 2nd lines and bingo bango wow we've got a top end player here. he did not get any faster and his skill level did not change. all that changed is he was placed with much more skilled players and his talents showed up with more points. of course he grew up a little and got more mature with nhl and age. A brilliant read by mcphee.

the leafs have a couple guys who could get a lot more points if played with right guys. leivo could be a 30 goal/50 point guy if he played with kadri or matthews. kappy could be a 20 goal/50 point guy under same circumstances. but right now they are being surpressed. but leafs probably know as they field calls for those 2 guys almost daily from other teams. i am at rinks almost every day as a retired guy and i played and my kids played and my grandkids are still playing. both those guys will get their shots this year when jvr and bozie and komarov move along.

But vegas 1st line would be the first line on more than half teams in the nhl. when you hear they have 4 2nd and 3rd lines that is not totally true. They have a solid 1st line, a couple good 2nd lines and a fourth line which is ok. but the key is they have a fast big team with a few exceptions who fight for every loose puck on boards and in front of net. again leafs have too many guys not willing to give up everything for the loose puck. if you are afraid of getting hurt than you will never win. of course that applies in life as well as hockey.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
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Skövde, Sweden
It happens too quite a few younger guys who play on 3rd and 4th lines though. All of a sudden they get a break and move up and play with a lot more skill on 1st or 2nd lines and bingo bango wow we've got a top end player here. he did not get any faster and his skill level did not change. all that changed is he was placed with much more skilled players and his talents showed up with more points.
Yeah, the difference is that most of the other cases are guys who did everything they could with the limited opportunity they got. Schmidt is a good example of that. He was about as good as you could expect a third pairing guy to be, so you could foresee how he could look great given a better chance.

Karlsson actually struggled as a fourth liner though. That's what is so amazing about his case. It looked more likely that he would find himself out of the league soon than that he would actually be a great player who was not given a proper chance. He followed that up with being dreadful in the preseason for Vegas, one of their worst players even though he got to play some good minutes on good lines. And then the season started, and the world turned upside down.
 

luvdahattymatty

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
511
405
Many many skilled players would struggle on a 4th line playing with non skilled players. Put a guy like Kessel on 4th line and he would be maybe considered the worst player in the league because his points would dry up entirely, he would be a huge - player giving up tons of goals against. He would be out of league in less than a year. Karlsson is no different than any of the others. He just got a chance and his skills showed up playing with other skilled players. Put Karlsson back on 4th line and it would revert to same issues as before.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
39,884
9,726
Many many skilled players would struggle on a 4th line playing with non skilled players. Put a guy like Kessel on 4th line and he would be maybe considered the worst player in the league because his points would dry up entirely, he would be a huge - player giving up tons of goals against. He would be out of league in less than a year. Karlsson is no different than any of the others. He just got a chance and his skills showed up playing with other skilled players. Put Karlsson back on 4th line and it would revert to same issues as before.

Makes you think. Probably a couple percent of NHL players get cast on the wrong line and don't realize their potential. I really believe Leivo may be someone like that and wouldn't be shocked if Lou trades for him.
 

Raging Bull

Present
Jan 25, 2004
20,087
4,849
Hamilton, ONT
Leafs have the wrong types of WMD (Weapons of mass destruction).

Leafs are built on SSWMD .. Soft, small weapons of mass destruction and teams that are bigger and stronger & physical are not afraid to play a Tom Wilson or Ryan Reaves are getting better results.

Washington and Vegas tough guys are not only making an impact physically they're also contributing on the scoresheet as well and their main impact is drawing their teammates into the fight and inspiring them physically.

Vegas destroyed a much bigger and tougher team in Winnipeg.
 

Mugzy97

#StandWitness
Mar 3, 2015
7,191
3,402
Halifax, NS
Heh. Ryan Reaves came over, immediately made Vegas' fourth line worse and proceeded to be a non-factor for most of the playoffs until the last two games. Suddenly some point to him as a key factor just so they can push the idea of size and toughness.

Meanwhile, the players that actually play meaningful minutes and have the big impact for the team are all smart players with great skating and the skill to execute the right plays, while being average sized at best.
You know this place is a "what have you done for me lately" zone. Short sighted opinions are mostly what you read around here.
 

Pookie

Wear a mask
Oct 23, 2013
16,172
6,684
Heh. Ryan Reaves came over, immediately made Vegas' fourth line worse and proceeded to be a non-factor for most of the playoffs until the last two games. Suddenly some point to him as a key factor just so they can push the idea of size and toughness.

Meanwhile, the players that actually play meaningful minutes and have the big impact for the team are all smart players with great skating and the skill to execute the right plays, while being average sized at best.

If we want to focus on the other team for a second.

Tom*cough*Wilson
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,975
32,365
St. Paul, MN
"Luck" lmao.

Vegas did in 1 year what the Leafs haven't in 51. Keep being bitter though.

I’m not bitter at all. I think it’s been a fun story to follow, great for the sport of hockey that fans in Vegas have embraced it so enthusiastically.

And none of that doesn’t change the fact that a huge chunk of that team’s success comes down to a 33 year old goalie having an unexpected career year both during the regular season and most of the playoffs that he won’t be able to repeat again. And so far this series it looks like the odds have finally caught up with him.
 
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