WJC: What does the IIHF need to do to make the World Juniors more popular in Europe?

[Sanderson]

The reason why the WJC is so popular in Canada is because it was the first IIHF tournament where we could actually send our best players. If it wasn't for the IIHF embargo on NHLers the WJC wouldn't be nearly as popular in Canada as it is today and it will never be a big deal elsewhere in the world.

What exactly is an "IIHF embargo on NHLers"?

There is no such thing. It's not the IIHF's fault that the NHL continued to push its schedule further and further into spring, leaving no place to have all players available for both the playoffs and the World Championship. Doesn't mean that the NHL needs to do anything about it, but blaming the IIHF for this is flat out wrong.

And no, your best players were competing in the WJC way before the tournament started to become big in Canada, so that's definately not the reason.

 

[Mathradio]

The only reason as to why the WJC is hosted in Canada on odd-numbered years is to ensure proper funding of Division I, II and III WJCs. Great Britain could host the WJCs if they somehow were playing in the top division by 2016.

 

[Reds4Life]

Nothing. Most Europeans do not care about World Juniors. It's just not the real thing.

 

[Mathradio]

Many hockey fans would consider the WJC and the U-18 Worlds as a chance to see tomorrow's stars today.

 

[Dosing]

Again, this comment. Seems to be a very popular one amongst Europeans.

We get it. You are insulting Canada. Whether or not your insult has some deeply disturbing overtones, I am not sure. Either way, you are saying there is something wrong with us.

You would be wise to remember that Canada as I know it (with no disrespect to the First Nations, the true first people of North America) was created by groups of people fleeing your nations to find a better life.

So I'll take your insult and smile, if you don't mind.

better life? is that what they told themselves when they realised they couldn't cut it in their original countrys? nice story for next generations eh? ;P

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

That isn't true. The WJC wasn't big until the 90's. Canada could send it's best players before that to the WHC.

How so? Most of Canada's top players were employed in the USA by the NHL and the WHC was held at the same time as the NHL playoffs.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

What exactly is an "IIHF embargo on NHLers"?

There is no such thing. It's not the IIHF's fault that the NHL continued to push its schedule further and further into spring, leaving no place to have all players available for both the playoffs and the World Championship. Doesn't mean that the NHL needs to do anything about it, but blaming the IIHF for this is flat out wrong.

The history of the NHL and the IIHF is really another topic. Here is a link if you are interested in learning more.
http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-iihf/100-year-anniversary/100-top-stories/story-17.html
There are many reasons why the World Championships never caught on in North America, but I think the embargo against the NHL was the most significant one. By the time NHLers were allowed I think it was too late and the tournament had lost credibility in the eyes of most NA hockey fans. The fact the WC were always played in Europe didn't help either as well as the conflict with the NHL playoffs.

And no, your best players were competing in the WJC way before the tournament started to become big in Canada, so that's definately not the reason.

Canada started sending a true National Team (not a club team) to the WJC in 1982 and the tournament started to grow in popularity steadily from that day on. As with most things in life it took years to build up to the major event it is today.

 

[Zine]

How so? Most of Canada's top players were employed in the USA by the NHL and the WHC was held at the same time as the WHC.

How is that different than WJC eligible players employed by the NHL at time of WJC?

Just like the WC, many good WJC players CAN NOT participate because of the NHL's restrictions.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

How is that different than WJC eligible players employed by the NHL at time of WJC?

Just like the WC, many good WJC players CAN NOT participate because of the NHL's restrictions.

It is not really, the main difference is that it seems more players every year are not released by their NHL clubs. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I believe this was much less common in the 90's when the tournament really started to take off in Canada. Another thing is that as long as the team with the most players held back still wins the effect of the missing players on the outcome of the tournament seems lessened.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Wan't Marc Andre Fleury the last Canadian player to be released from his NHL team to play at the 2004 World Juniors. I remember the Penguins needed to save some $ that year and during the time he was gone they wouldn't need to pay him, so since then I don't think any other players have been released from their teams to play in the World Juniors for Canada.

Now I know that Brayden Schenn started this season with Los Angeles, then was sent to Manchester and eventually sent back to Brandon of the WHL. However I am sure he played some WHL games before then and wasn't sent right to Team Canada like Fleury was, because back then he stayed with the Penguins until the point when he left for Team Canada.

 

[Latex*]

Small sample size like that doesn't prove anything. Hockey is still the most popular sport in Finland.

No, it's not, atleast not in Helsinki anymore.

 

[Muuri]

No, it's not, atleast not in Helsinki anymore.

So name the sports that are more popular in Finland. Football ?

 

[Latex*]

So name the sports that are more popular in Finland. Football ?

Atleast in Helsinki, yes football is propably more popular than hockey.

 

[Jussi]

Atleast in Helsinki, yes football is propably more popular than hockey.

The hell it is. Attendance figures beg to differ.

 

[hahahaa]

In Europe: World Championships >>>> World jr Championships

 

[Latex*]

The hell it is. Attendance figures beg to differ.

Meh, the football fans don't care about Veikkausliiga, they just watch the foreign leagues.

And besides, do the immigrants in eastern Helsinki even know what hockey is.?



And that's from a guy who hates football.

 

[mattihp]

Don't you get Finland is pretty unlikely to win any kind of competition. Still we watch. Unlike North Americans we don't only watch games where we'll win most of the time.

Yeah. I watch every World Champs game and olympics. It's not about the losing....

 

[mattihp]

Again, this comment. Seems to be a very popular one amongst Europeans.

We get it. You are insulting Canada. Whether or not your insult has some deeply disturbing overtones, I am not sure. Either way, you are saying there is something wrong with us.

You would be wise to remember that Canada as I know it (with no disrespect to the First Nations, the true first people of North America) was created by groups of people fleeing your nations to find a better life.

So I'll take your insult and smile, if you don't mind.

For me it has nothing to do with insulting Canada. I have nothing against Canada. We just have different interests when it comes to watching hockey, etc.

Can you please motivate how you interpret it as an insult? Over-analyzing big time.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

And no, your best players were competing in the WJC way before the tournament started to become big in Canada, so that's definately not the reason.

No, I definitely think that having (most of) our best junior-aged players there, compared to the WHC where it's clearly 1-2 tiers below our best certainly helps the popularity of the WJC. I also think it started getting big when more people started getting access to TSN. Before that I'm not sure there was a regular, reliable place to watch the games. TSN gave it a coveted slot and good production values around it to make it an appealing package.

Fact of the matter is it is extremely entertaining hockey, so we (as hockey-loving Canadians) don't need to make any excuses to anybody as to why we enjoy it so much. It doesn't matter if the players are 19 or 30, good hockey is good hockey. It's just sour grapes on the part of others to assume the only reason we like it is because we win it. I think it is much more likely that the reverse is true.

 

[Eidyia]

So name the sports that are more popular in Finland. Football ?

Actually the national footy team is more popular than the hockey NT nowadays. And this has been the case for at least the last five years or so. Also, the number of registered players in football has been greater than in hockey for as long I can remember.

Finnish Elite League in hockey is still way more popular than the domestic football league but they're cathing up year by year.

I mean, when do you see anything like this in hockey NT matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttAWZ3mF1gw&feature=related

I love hockey as much I love football and I hope the best for both teams but I just cant see hockey competiting in popularity in a long run.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

The history of the NHL and the IIHF is really another topic. Here is a link if you are interested in learning more.
http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-iihf/100-year-anniversary/100-top-stories/story-17.html
There are many reasons why the World Championships never caught on in North America, but I think the embargo against the NHL was the most significant one. By the time NHLers were allowed I think it was too late and the tournament had lost credibility in the eyes of most NA hockey fans. The fact the WC were always played in Europe didn't help either as well as the conflict with the NHL playoffs.



Canada started sending a true National Team (not a club team) to the WJC in 1982 and the tournament started to grow in popularity steadily from that day on. As with most things in life it took years to build up to the major event it is today.

Actually NHL players were allowed to play at the Worlds starting in 1977. The so called "IIHF embargo" had 0 effect on the popularity of the World Juniors nor the lack of interest in the Worlds. The only thing it did do was cause the '72 and '74 Summit Series and the Canada Cup. Those were created as the Olympics wouldn't allow pros to play and Canada opted out of international hockey from 1970 until 1977.

What spawned the popularity of the World Juniors is the TSN hype machine. However, TSN fluked off and had a great tournament in an arena with a large crowd to help their hype. Their first tournament was the 1991 World Juniors in Saskatoon. As we all know, that round robin only tournament came down to a Canada-USSR "final" that was made more exciting by John Slaney's goal late in the 3rd. Plus, the crowd was huge in Saskatoon and at the time was the highest attended World Juniors.

As for the Worlds not being popular it has partially to do with the tournament almost always being played in Europe. So this means that the games are played during the day when people are at work. Compare this with the World Juniors which are played during Christmas holidays. Many professional offices shut down over this time and the kids are out of schools. This means that TV audiences are huge for those games. Unfortunately for the Worlds, this isn't the case. So that is strike one for the Worlds in Canada.

Strike two is the lack of the best players for Canada. I personally love the Worlds, but many Canadians won't watch it because you end up with players who are third and fourth liners on many NHL teams. Heck, I remember a few years where there were European pros playing like Jean-Francois Damphousse. So, many Canadians look at this as a bunch of scrubs without star power playing in a tournament against nobody they ever heard of before. The stars that they want to see are largely playing in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. So Canadians tend to follow that.

Strike three is that Canada does not dominate this tournament like the World Juniors. I would think if Canada went into a long drought at the World Juniors in the mid-90s, the World Juniors wouldn't be nearly as popular. Anything less than Gold for Canada is considered a failure. With the lack of Golds Canada has grabbed at the Worlds, I think many people look at this tournament as Canada's failure.

So these are why the Worlds aren't as popular here. I personally love the Worlds and think it is exciting hockey. I wish they would hold the tournament in Canada more often. I think a Winnipeg/Saskatoon tournament would do very well. I'd buy tickets for that tournament and go to as many games as possible. But I am the minority in this one.

 

[nutbar]

The hype from TSN surrounding the tournament now is unbelievable if you compare it to when they broadcast the tournament in the 1990s. I remember in 1994 for example they didn't even bother to broadcast Canada's games against the weakest teams at the time (Germany and Switzerland, though those games weren't blowouts), because I guess they assumed no one would want to watch. Now everybody tunes in to watch Canada trash somebody like Latvia 16-0.

I also remember Paul Romanuk saying to viewers during a 1997 Czech-Russia game which was broadcast early in the morning back home, "if you're watching this game, god bless you, you're a hockey fan".

 

[mattihp]

I also remember Paul Romanuk saying to viewers during a 1997 Czech-Russia game which was broadcast early in the morning back home, "if you're watching this game, god bless you, you're a hockey fan".

Then how about the euros who watch games in the MIDDLE of the night to catch their WJC and NHL action? ;P

 

[jekoh]

Strike two is the lack of the best players for Canada. I personally love the Worlds, but many Canadians won't watch it because you end up with players who are third and fourth liners on many NHL teams. Heck, I remember a few years where there were European pros playing like Jean-Francois Damphousse.

When exactly did Jean-François Damphousse play at the Worlds? Or even in Europe for that matter?

So, many Canadians look at this as a bunch of scrubs without star power playing in a tournament against nobody they ever heard of before. The stars that they want to see are largely playing in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. So Canadians tend to follow that.

Nash, Getzlaf, Heatley, Doan, Staal, Saint-Louis, Toews, Spezza, Roy, Kunitz, Sharp, Chimera, Mayers. That's the 2008 lineup for Canada. While this is not Canada's A team, there's certainly "star power" and hardly any "third and fourth liners". One could argue this lineup is better than whatever is left in the NHL at that point.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

Then how about the euros who watch games in the MIDDLE of the night to catch their WJC and NHL action? ;P

I would certainly consider those true hockey fans too . I lived in the UK for 2 years and spent some late nights doing the same thing, so I know your pain .