Player Discussion What do we have in Josh Leivo

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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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No contract for him next season means he's out of luck. I can't recall ever hearing about a broken knee cap injury in hockey. Heck, even other sports, I can't recall hearing it.

wish him the best. I mean, without Covid, we'd be like 2 weeks away from training camp.

I think some team will sign him but I do think there would be some disability insurance coverage if he can't play next season and doesn't have a contract.

As for broken knee cap, I mentioned in a previous posts about recovery from these injuries. There are a few NBA players over the years who have suffered a broken knee cap injury such as Kyrie Irving.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Sounds like this injury might be career-threatening....a tough break for the guy who was probably in line for a decent raise as a UFA. It's a reminder that for NHL players, it only takes one second for a serious injury to totally change their career outlook. It's a tough, physical sport.
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
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Nobody has answered the question I was trying to ask. What happens to an injured player when his contract expires and he still injured. Is he just SOL.

This is assuming that his situation is such that he cannot play hockey for a year. Does it then just fall between the cracks.

he's fully insured. i imagine he gets some kind of disability payment if he cannot work and misses a season and a pension if his career ends. it is likely very generous by normal disability policy standards but also likely not really comparable to his lost income.
 

Bertuzzzi44

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Jun 26, 2018
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Leivo would be a solid addition to the team and would make the forward depth and the middle 6 much better. He led the team in possession numbers (Corsi/Fenwick), had good analytical stats and passes the eye test. Due to his unfortunate season ending injury, he could be signed for cheap to a show me contract. 1yr 900K. Solid player, would be a smart decision to bring him back.
 

kcunac

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Aug 31, 2008
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I support Leivo but he should be around a million in the current environment, making it a no risk signing.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
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Aside from Motte, Leivo might be one of our best bottom 6 forwards. I don't know if that says more about Leivo or our roster construction.
 

Bankerguy

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Apr 28, 2013
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I like what Leivo brings to the game. His compete level in all three zones, board work, even some scoring touch.
I think he's the kind of player that good teams have in their bottom six. The bottom six needs to bring something and not get hemmed in their own zone the whole game.
I think that if the Canucks had more guys like Leivo in their bottom six then they wouldnt have been dominated so badly by Vegas. Guys like Eriksson, Beagle, just seem to always be in their own end.
Leivo / Motte are the wingers i want to see on the fourth line for sure.
 

Blue and Green

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Dec 17, 2017
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Leivo would be a solid addition to the team and would make the forward depth and the middle 6 much better. He led the team in possession numbers (Corsi/Fenwick), had good analytical stats and passes the eye test. Due to his unfortunate season ending injury, he could be signed for cheap to a show me contract. 1yr 900K. Solid player, would be a smart decision to bring him back.

Yes, he was the Canucks' best third-line player prior to the injury, playing well above his cap hit. A solid player to have-- if he is fully recovered from the injury, which is no guarantee.

The vast majority of players who take pay cuts from their previous contracts do so with a new team. If the Canucks offer him something like 900k - 1M, likely he'd take it as a sign that he has no genuine future here and move on for a fresh start.
 
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deckercky

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Oct 27, 2010
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Given the injury, I think he's the type of player you keep giving medical support to and access to facilities, then give a tryout contract for training camp. If he's healthy and is able to play, you give him a 1-2 year contract near minimum.

Leivo was great, but he could be done if he's mobility has decreased.
 
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Rumsfeld

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Oct 3, 2020
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If the injury isn't huge I want to re-sign this player. Loved him on the wall down the stretch and feel like he's the kind of guy we should be giving the big bottom-six contracts to.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Knee injuries are tough to assess and his slow recovery is very concerning. I would sign him to a 1 year deal between league minimum and Motte money.
 

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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Yes, he was the Canucks' best third-line player prior to the injury, playing well above his cap hit. A solid player to have-- if he is fully recovered from the injury, which is no guarantee.

The vast majority of players who take pay cuts from their previous contracts do so with a new team. If the Canucks offer him something like 900k - 1M, likely he'd take it as a sign that he has no genuine future here and move on for a fresh start.


The injury and his placement on the roster is why he should take less to stay. Other coaches may not value him as Green does.

Lowering the salary is a sign that the team is cautious about his injury. Why would it be a sign to him that he has no genuine future here? The offering of the contract is a gesture in that regard.
 
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Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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Definitely willing to admit I was wrong on Leivo, thought he was unfairly gifted opportunities from a GM desperate for a “win”

Still think he was to a degree but once he settled in to a proper role he ended up being a more than solid bottom 6 er

This guy should be a no brainer to bring back on a cheap deal, injury or not. This would have been done already if our cap situation wasn’t hilariously sad
 
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Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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If Leivo plays to his pre-injury ability, he's the fifth best forward on this team.

For a cap strapped team, I'm not sure why he hasn't been given a contract to see if he can regain form.
 

Blue and Green

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The injury and his placement on the roster is why he should take less to stay. Other coaches may not value him as Green does.

Lowering the salary is a sign that the team is cautious about his injury. Why would it be a sign to him that he has no genuine future here? The offering of the contract is a gesture in that regard.

If your employer offered you a 40% pay cut, you'd probably look for opportunities to move on. And while the injury has to be taken into account, so does Leivo's play prior to the injury which was putting him in a position to get a substantial raise. If he has to take a pay cut this season he should do so in the best possible spot to showcase himself for another contract next summer. Other teams will be interested if his kneecap has healed well.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Count me as a little surprised some team out there hasn't taken a flyer yet on Josh Leivo.

Maybe he and his agent really are waiting for the Canucks to somehow get their cap mess straightened out. Or the injury is scaring off some teams. Who knows? But if healthy, would be a solid depth signing for the Canucks.
 

Blue and Green

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Count me as a little surprised some team out there hasn't taken a flyer yet on Josh Leivo.

Maybe he and his agent really are waiting for the Canucks to somehow get their cap mess straightened out. Or the injury is scaring off some teams. Who knows? But if healthy, would be a solid depth signing for the Canucks.

He's been skating but as of Oct 5 he hadn't been medically cleared to play. Haven't seen any news since that day.
 

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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If your employer offered you a 40% pay cut, you'd probably look for opportunities to move on. And while the injury has to be taken into account, so does Leivo's play prior to the injury which was putting him in a position to get a substantial raise. If he has to take a pay cut this season he should do so in the best possible spot to showcase himself for another contract next summer. Other teams will be interested if his kneecap has healed well.


Right, and the best possible spot for him is probably here. Here, he’s assured a role. Elsewhere, who knows?

Leivo offers no surety to his employer right now. Any GM could be throwing money away offering him a 1yr contract. Therefore, this employee is a risk. As a result, a reduction in pay is made to mitigate that risk.

Flat cap environment on top of everything suppressed what he can get, just like every other player.
 

Blue and Green

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Right, and the best possible spot for him is probably here. Here, he’s assured a role. Elsewhere, who knows?

Leivo offers no surety to his employer right now. Any GM could be throwing money away offering him a 1yr contract. Therefore, this employee is a risk. As a result, a reduction in pay is made to mitigate that risk.

Flat cap environment on top of everything suppressed what he can get, just like every other player.

How is he assured a role here if they deem him worthy only of a contract around 900k-1M? Goldobin got 900k on a 1-way deal and spent almost the entire season in the minors. And again, using the cap hit on his expired contract plus the injury as the only bases for his value now isn't valid because he had been easily outperforming his cap hit. If they think the knee is that problematic they shouldn't be signing him at all.

The vast majority of pay cuts involve the player moving on. Other teams will be interested as long as his kneecap has healed okay.
 

Bleach Clean

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How is he assured a role here if they deem him worthy only of a contract around 900k-1M? Goldobin got 900k on a 1-way deal and spent almost the entire season in the minors. And again, using the cap hit on his expired contract plus the injury as the only bases for his value now isn't valid because he had been easily outperforming his cap hit. If they think the knee is that problematic they shouldn't be signing him at all.

The vast majority of pay cuts involve the player moving on. Other teams will be interested as long as his kneecap has healed okay.


...And how do they know it has if he doesn't play? They will not know until he does.

He's assured a role because the coach is not the GM. Green will try to play him as he had.

Leivo out performed his contract for 36 games... 36 games.


Questions for you: Ferland signing, he was cleared to play. Did they know his concussion issues were completely behind him? Did it affect his potential salary?
 

Blue and Green

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...And how do they know it has if he doesn't play? They will not know until he does.

He's assured a role because the coach is not the GM. Green will try to play him as he had.

Leivo out performed his contract for 36 games... 36 games.

Questions for you: Ferland signing, he was cleared to play. Did they know his concussion issues were completely behind him? Did it affect his potential salary?

When Leivo signed in summer 2019 for $1.5M, I said that he'd signed a bargain contract. I think he's been playing above $1.5M ever since he arrived two years ago.

Ferland didn't re-sign with his existing team; and the team that did sign him is regretting it. As I already said, if the kneecap is that big of a concern the Canucks should just say thanks and good luck in your future, Josh, wherever that will be.

Once a pay cut is introduced, it's a sign of declining interest and a player will often accept an even deeper cut to go where he has a better opportunity to put himself into a better position for his next contract. Pay cuts taken by players who stay put are far outnumbered by pay cuts taken by players who move on. That's the reality.
 

Bleach Clean

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When Leivo signed in summer 2019 for $1.5M, I said that he'd signed a bargain contract. I think he's been playing above $1.5M ever since he arrived two years ago.

Ferland didn't re-sign with his existing team; and the team that did sign him is regretting it. As I already said, if the kneecap is that big of a concern the Canucks should just say thanks and good luck in your future, Josh, wherever that will be.

Once a pay cut is introduced, it's a sign of declining interest and a player will often accept an even deeper cut to go where he has a better opportunity to put himself into a better position for his next contract. Pay cuts taken by players who stay put are far outnumbered by pay cuts taken by players who move on. That's the reality.


I agree that this is the probability with pay cuts. Players that stay don't often experience declining salaries. That said, a major injury does not apply to all cases. Leivo's limited track record and the flat cap the same.

Effectively, you're saying the flat cap, major injury and limited track record should not affect Leivo's re-signing rate here, but may affect Leivo's signing rate elsewhere?

Or, are you saying that those three caveats should not affect him regardless of where he goes? That he has earned a raise despite all factors to the contrary?
 

Blue and Green

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I agree that this is the probability with pay cuts. Players that stay don't often experience declining salaries. That said, a major injury does not apply to all cases. Leivo's limited track record and the flat cap the same.

Effectively, you're saying the flat cap, major injury and limited track record should not affect Leivo's re-signing rate here, but may affect Leivo's signing rate elsewhere?

Or, are you saying that those three caveats should not affect him regardless of where he goes? That he has earned a raise despite all factors to the contrary?

This is my last post because this is going circular and I feel that I'm repeating the points.

It's not a matter simply of him suffering a major injury. It's contingent upon how he is recuperating from that injury.

Canucks don't need another winger of 4th-line/spare calibre, especially one that doesn't kill penalties. So if that's what they think Leivo is likely to be due to the injury, they shouldn't sign him at all-- not even with a pay cut.

On the other hand, if they are optimistic about his recuperation and his future status, then why would they risk losing him by offering him a pay cut, especially something in the 30% or more category? Given the market circumstances I would think there's a good chance that he might accept a one-year deal at the same money as last season. If he comes back as the same player that's a very good bargain. Lowballing in that scenario doesn't make sense as it would probably just chase him out the door. Remember that it's his kneecap; he'll know best how it's progressing and the better it feels the more confident he'll be about his contractual demands and his future as a player.
 

Didalee Hed

I’m trying to understand
Sep 14, 2019
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The better this player turns out, the funnier an error it is on the little dork in Toronto. He’s exactly the kind of player they lack and they had him.
 

Blue and Green

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The better this player turns out, the funnier an error it is on the little dork in Toronto. He’s exactly the kind of player they lack and they had him.

More the fault of the ex-coach who benched the player for two seasons. I read somewhere that Toronto might be interested in bringing back Leivo.
 
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