Speculation: What do we do with our hands (Jeff Petry)

Behind Enemy Lines

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Chiarelli butchered every major trade here but he made some good small moves. Signed every big RFA (Klef, McDavid, Drai) to ridiculously good max term deals and he could actually identify real nhl D men and goaltenders. He could also draft nhl players outside of the top 10.

Even tambelini was better than MacT. The team actually improved under Tambelini every year once they committed to the rebuild. It was baby steps but it was improvement. The MacT era was rock bottom for me as an Oiler fan.

I look at the starting point of all the Oiler GM's. No one quite likely ever got the starting point that Chiarelli did. Not only gets to step up to the podium to select generational talent but also gifted a second mid-first round pick courtesy of a savvy deal by MacTavish which he promptly turned into Reinhart. MacT was pretty erratic but Chiarelli's work actually substantively moved this franchise backwards after long, hard miles of like a decade. Staggering how Chiarelli managed to f*** up the perfect table setting. Staggering.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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This organizationhad always had a terrible ability to assess talent.

Yup. Horribad drafting despite great positioning through sustained losing and this team grossly underperformed beyond its lottery picks. Lowtide on this site laid the Magnificent Bastard nickname on Stu McGregor five years before we knew his drafts were busts. Failure to find talent outside top ten picks and throughout rounds 2-7 is a recipe for bottom dweller especially when you were pushing NHL talent like Petry and Cogliano out the door for lottery tickets which they turned into nothing burgers. Hollow out your NHL roster and fail to build a quality prospect pool. A textbook case study on how NOT to rebuild a franchise with this core function at the top of how the Oilers failed their way for more than a decade.
 
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MessierII

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I look at the starting point of all the Oiler GM's. No one quite likely ever got the starting point that Chiarelli did. Not only gets to step up to the podium to select generational talent but also gifted a second mid-first round pick courtesy of a savvy deal by MacTavish which he promptly turned into Reinhart. MacT was pretty erratic but Chiarelli's work actually substantively moved this franchise backwards after long, hard miles of like a decade. Staggering how Chiarelli managed to f*** up the perfect table setting. Staggering.
The perfect table setting? How many nhl goalies did chiarelli have? Didn’t have a backup caliber player there. How many top 4 D? A broken down Schultz was his best option there since MacT had just traded jeff Petry. Chiarelli had some nice forward pieces to start sure but no on D and in net it was a complete disaster and way worse than what MacT inherited from Tambelini.

If he had Petry he doesn’t have to swing for that Reinhardt trade or the Taylor Hall trade. MacT traded the best defensemen off what was already the worst D in the league. Had he not messed up so badly with the Eakins hire maybe Schultz would have still been a half decent player by then.

The best thing to come out of MacT is running the franchise back into the ground so badly during some actual good draft years.
 

voxel

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I’ve followed Petry since his Spartan days and was pissed we traded him and kept the soft suspect defense Jultz instead... who we traded away for pennies also.

We can just keep trading away our vet D and magically expect youngsters to replace them. I do think we need to keep one of Larsson or Russell for next season and bring a vet like Nate Schmidt in. I don’t want to be play all youngsters like Bear, Jones, Bouchard, Lagesson, Samorukov, Broberg.
 

voxel

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Yup. Horribad drafting despite great positioning through sustained losing and this team grossly underperformed beyond its lottery picks. Lowtide on this site laid the Magnificent Bastard nickname on Stu McGregor five years before we knew his drafts were busts. Failure to find talent outside top ten picks and throughout rounds 2-7 is a recipe for bottom dweller especially when you were pushing NHL talent like Petry and Cogliano out the door for lottery tickets which they turned into nothing burgers. Hollow out your NHL roster and fail to build a quality prospect pool. A textbook case study on how NOT to rebuild a franchise with this core function at the top of how the Oilers failed their way for more than a decade.

And surprisingly Chia’s drafting record is decent. His pro scouting and trades were franchise crippling.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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The perfect table setting? How many nhl goalies did chiarelli have? Didn’t have a backup caliber player there. How many top 4 D? A broken down Schultz was his best option there since MacT had just traded jeff Petry. Chiarelli had some nice forward pieces to start sure but no on D and in net it was a complete disaster and way worse than what MacT inherited from Tambelini.

If he had Petry he doesn’t have to swing for that Reinhardt trade or the Taylor Hall trade. MacT traded the best defensemen off what was already the worst D in the league. Had he not messed up so badly with the Eakins hire maybe Schultz would have still been a half decent player by then.

The best thing to come out of MacT is running the franchise back into the ground so badly during some actual good draft years.

Understatement. Chiarelli had McDavid, Draisaitl, Hall, Nugent Hopkins, Eberle as a core. He had two young quality d in Klefbom and Nurse then turned Hall into Larssen. Three quality first round pedigree defensemen to build around and support a young, elite forward group. I can't believe any new GM ever, likely in any sport, has been gifted this elite level of young talent led by a generational elite prospect in McDavid. Yet within five years, Chiarelli turned this roster into dog shit with significant holes throughout the roster, put it into cap jail with bad contracts requiring a magician in Holland to come in and nibble around the edges trying to kickstart this team around the remaining elite corp Chiarelli was gifted.

Chiarelli secured a gift trade with retiring ex-Oiler Sather to get Talbot. A good value move that gave them decent goaltending for a few years. His buy high on Koskinen and re-signing while about to be fired has given them serviceable goaltending, not elite.

Your comments are speculative regarding Petry who was inconsistent for many of his young Oiler years before having everything lock in as he was going into free agency. The Oilers and MacT for his tenure blew it with a series of one year deals which boxed them in when Petry emerged as a great d-man and 'given away' for a song. Huge mistake. But it's no guarantee Chiarelli, in his big trade reputation, doesn't deal for Reinhart and/or Hall trying to address a chronic positional issue going back to Tambellini's tenure. Playing your speculation game, Oilers keep Petry, they're marginally at worst better, and lose out on McDavid. Revisiting history, you prefer Petry to McDavid? Schultz under a different coach is an unknown. The 'Oiler Way' extending before MacT was to insert young players too high into the lineup and sink or swim. Schultz was incredibly badly handled. But again, revisionist history, keep Kruger, Schultz is played properly, Oilers win more and miss on McDavid ... maybe Draisaitl too.

So counting again. Chiarelli started with all of those elite forwards, Nurse and Klefbom as young pedigree defensemen, and when fired the Oilers were still picking in the top ten of the NHL draft. And for revisionist history, imagine if the Oilers had kept the McDavid draft #15 and #33 in a good draft they would have improved their prospect pipeline which would likely be contributing now as cheap-isn talent alleviating the cap issue Chiarelli created. Imagine further if the Oilers did not hire Chiarelli, they would have saved a draft pick as compensation but also very likely had traded for Dougie Hamilton instead of Reinhart because the Bruins would not deal with Chiarelli after the hatchet job done in his time there. Lots of permutations and speculative revisionist history to go around. Chiarelli - by far - was dealt the best hand and left with this team full of holes, drafting top ten, and expensive. Some really good work I acknowledge but overwhelmingly the greatest era of disappointment with the loaded hand he walked into.

We see things differently.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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I’ve followed Petry since his Spartan days and was pissed we traded him and kept the soft suspect defense Jultz instead... who we traded away for pennies also.

We can just keep trading away our vet D and magically expect youngsters to replace them. I do think we need to keep one of Larsson or Russell for next season and bring a vet like Nate Schmidt in. I don’t want to be play all youngsters like Bear, Jones, Bouchard, Lagesson, Samorukov, Broberg.

Yup, I liked Petry a lot too going back to his college days. Though I think they could have used Petry and Schultz (who I think was incredibly poorly handled in Edmonton overplayed and overhyped until he wilted under the pressure and venomous fanbase that turned on him as he failed in unrealistic position he was placed in as a young, physically weak developing d-man. There was some rumblings that Petry might want to return to play in the States but the Canadiens in an amazing buy low deal rolled the dice and have seen him flourish. A massive failure among many in Edmonton over an unparalleled era of futility.

Totally agree, the Oil need a veteran(s) to support the transition to a really solid and very young developing defense corp. Personally, I think Larsson on a cheaper deal would be great in that role while adding a physical, gritty element that I think is still important. We see with Jones that development is really tough at the defense position in the NHL. Virtually never linear and having strong veteran presence that can stabilize and mentor (on ice and off) is critically important.
 

MessierII

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Understatement. Chiarelli had McDavid, Draisaitl, Hall, Nugent Hopkins, Eberle as a core. He had two young quality d in Klefbom and Nurse then turned Hall into Larssen. Three quality first round pedigree defensemen to build around and support a young, elite forward group. I can't believe any new GM ever, likely in any sport, has been gifted this elite level of young talent led by a generational elite prospect in McDavid. Yet within five years, Chiarelli turned this roster into dog shit with significant holes throughout the roster, put it into cap jail with bad contracts requiring a magician in Holland to come in and nibble around the edges trying to kickstart this team around the remaining elite corp Chiarelli was gifted.

Chiarelli secured a gift trade with retiring ex-Oiler Sather to get Talbot. A good value move that gave them decent goaltending for a few years. His buy high on Koskinen and re-signing while about to be fired has given them serviceable goaltending, not elite.

Your comments are speculative regarding Petry who was inconsistent for many of his young Oiler years before having everything lock in as he was going into free agency. The Oilers and MacT for his tenure blew it with a series of one year deals which boxed them in when Petry emerged as a great d-man and 'given away' for a song. Huge mistake. But it's no guarantee Chiarelli, in his big trade reputation, doesn't deal for Reinhart and/or Hall trying to address a chronic positional issue going back to Tambellini's tenure. Playing your speculation game, Oilers keep Petry, they're marginally at worst better, and lose out on McDavid. Revisiting history, you prefer Petry to McDavid? Schultz under a different coach is an unknown. The 'Oiler Way' extending before MacT was to insert young players too high into the lineup and sink or swim. Schultz was incredibly badly handled. But again, revisionist history, keep Kruger, Schultz is played properly, Oilers win more and miss on McDavid ... maybe Draisaitl too.

So counting again. Chiarelli started with all of those elite forwards, Nurse and Klefbom as young pedigree defensemen, and when fired the Oilers were still picking in the top ten of the NHL draft. And for revisionist history, imagine if the Oilers had kept the McDavid draft #15 and #33 in a good draft they would have improved their prospect pipeline which would likely be contributing now as cheap-isn talent alleviating the cap issue Chiarelli created. Imagine further if the Oilers did not hire Chiarelli, they would have saved a draft pick as compensation but also very likely had traded for Dougie Hamilton instead of Reinhart because the Bruins would not deal with Chiarelli after the hatchet job done in his time there. Lots of permutations and speculative revisionist history to go around. Chiarelli - by far - was dealt the best hand and left with this team full of holes, drafting top ten, and expensive. Some really good work I acknowledge but overwhelmingly the greatest era of disappointment with the loaded hand he walked into.

We see things differently.
Nurse was 20 and coming out of junior when chiarelli was hired. He was a prospect he wasn’t the nurse of today. Klefbom had yet to play a full nhl season and had less than 100 games on his resume. I don’t understand how 0 proven nhl top 4 D and 0 nhl goaltenders and a prospect pool that consisted of......Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse and....Who were our next best prospects? Brandon Davidson? Jujhar Khaira? I don’t understand how that is a loaded hand. The organization was a complete mess from top to bottom.

Chiarelli botched the forward core and left some holes but he also left a wealth of prospects that are beginning to and will continue to plug holes for years to come. The only prospect we have from the MacT era is William Lagesson who has the ceiling of a 6-7 D man. We got a little bit out of Slepyshev as well. The roster chiarelli left was a few minor tweaks from being competitive as we saw last year. The MacT era was the epitome of failure. Regression across the board from player performance to the standings literally everything got worse in his time. Before MacT all our young players were putting up career numbers and developing well. Even Yakupov and Schultz. The Dallas Eakins hire alone cements MacT’s legacy. Just a complete clownshow.
 

Broberg Speed

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Some Oiler fans are masochists . You can't change the past.
You should recognize masochist is just another word for Oiler fan.

Irreversible devastation has already been done to the psyche of the dedicated followers of this disheartening franchise.

I fail to follow the intention of your comment. Is it essentially, "what else is there to do but line up and smile for the next boot to the gut because the past is in the past"?

No, I'm going to hold onto the past, good and bad, distinguish the patterns, and learn from them. This guides my future choices.

It's my choice to remain a fan of this hockey club but I also choose to face up to the chain of circumstances that drive this legacy of absurdities.
 

iCanada

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Feb 6, 2010
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Ahh hindsight.

Not really hindsight.

Half the damn board said we should have signed Petry long term. The other half of the board wanted to run everyone and their mom's dog off the team because we'd be horrible for a decade and still hard sucked with multiple firsts.

It's not like HFOil at the time applauded the deal. We always thought MacT screwed the pooch. And we were more than right.
 

iCanada

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I look at the starting point of all the Oiler GM's. No one quite likely ever got the starting point that Chiarelli did. Not only gets to step up to the podium to select generational talent but also gifted a second mid-first round pick courtesy of a savvy deal by MacTavish which he promptly turned into Reinhart. MacT was pretty erratic but Chiarelli's work actually substantively moved this franchise backwards after long, hard miles of like a decade. Staggering how Chiarelli managed to f*** up the perfect table setting. Staggering.

Well, Chia probably had a better starting point in Boston, tbh.

Marchand, Kessel, Krejci, Bergeron, Chara, Lucic, and Thomas were all there already. They had an elite bottom 6 already with guys like veteran guys like Recchi, Savard, Thornton, and Peverly. They had a strong depth D already with guys like Boychuk, Wideman, Ference and Seidenberg. They had promising young players like Wheeler + Seguin (who I guess Chia drafted, but a 6 year old child could have made that selection.)

All he added was Ryder, Horton, and an aging Kaberle. And he paid 4 1sts, a top 4 D in Wideman, player safety immunity in Gregory Campbell, and 3 2nds. He added two second line forwards and a depth defenseman. That's it.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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Nurse was 20 and coming out of junior when chiarelli was hired. He was a prospect he wasn’t the nurse of today. Klefbom had yet to play a full nhl season and had less than 100 games on his resume. I don’t understand how 0 proven nhl top 4 D and 0 nhl goaltenders and a prospect pool that consisted of......Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse and....Who were our next best prospects? Brandon Davidson? Jujhar Khaira? I don’t understand how that is a loaded hand. The organization was a complete mess from top to bottom.

Chiarelli botched the forward core and left some holes but he also left a wealth of prospects that are beginning to and will continue to plug holes for years to come. The only prospect we have from the MacT era is William Lagesson who has the ceiling of a 6-7 D man. We got a little bit out of Slepyshev as well. The roster chiarelli left was a few minor tweaks from being competitive as we saw last year. The MacT era was the epitome of failure. Regression across the board from player performance to the standings literally everything got worse in his time. Before MacT all our young players were putting up career numbers and developing well. Even Yakupov and Schultz. The Dallas Eakins hire alone cements MacT’s legacy. Just a complete clownshow.

It's like choosing between car crash, plane crash or shipwreck when looking at the Oilers management groups under Tambellini, MacTavish and Chiarelli. The organization drafting outside of top ten is a massive failing that crossed several management groups until as you rightfully point out Chiarelli improved it. A big win for Keith Gretzky. So too is starting with McDavid, Hall, Draisaitl, Nugent Hopkins, Eberle, Klefbom, Nurse. Chiarelli having elite talent McDavid and Draisaitl, Nuge, Klefbom and Nurse and regressing them to a top ten drafting team with a patchwork support roster in net, defense, and forward is the regression of all regression adding on the cap jail that Chia left. To have this level of established young talent, make this a cap threshold team, and being among the ten worst teams in the league is epitome of bad management.

MacTavish owns his share of epic failures in his brief time as GM most notably the Eakins hiring which is probably the worst decision in the whole rebuild(s) era. However Trader Chiarelli created more damage through bad trades, poor cap management with within on year of his firing included two Hart Trophy winners and a third that he spun into a defensive defenseman. If Chiarelli had done nothing with this stacked roster he was given the Oilers it is reasonable to project would be a better team than the one he left when fired. And had he not been hired at all, the Oilers quite likely have a top defenseman in Dougie Hamilton via a better trade value offer than the winning one Calgary put on the table.

Pick your poison. Your line is MacTavish, mine is Chiarelli. Regardless, the Oilers are textbook case study of what not to do for organizational rebuild. And I agree a complete clownshow with plenty of clowns who wear this systemic failure.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Well, Chia probably had a better starting point in Boston, tbh.

Marchand, Kessel, Krejci, Bergeron, Chara, Lucic, and Thomas were all there already. They had an elite bottom 6 already with guys like veteran guys like Recchi, Savard, Thornton, and Peverly. They had a strong depth D already with guys like Boychuk, Wideman, Ference and Seidenberg. They had promising young players like Wheeler + Seguin (who I guess Chia drafted, but a 6 year old child could have made that selection.)

All he added was Ryder, Horton, and an aging Kaberle. And he paid 4 1sts, a top 4 D in Wideman, player safety immunity in Gregory Campbell, and 3 2nds. He added two second line forwards and a depth defenseman. That's it.

Pretty fair point, thank you! I'd quibble a bit about Chara - he essentially signed as Chiarelli was on boarding to the Bruins and their existing relationship quite likely a factor. But the critical backbone was in place with elite goaltending (established and developing - Thomas and Rusk); a strong defense made elite with Chara. Two likely Hall of Famers to be with prime years Chara and Bergeron.

So let's go Peter Chiarelli 1A and 1B for walking into the best likely talent situations of any GM in hockey or perhaps any professional sport. He made better big deals in Boston which improved his team while that reputation in Edmonton cost the organization massively with the Reinhart and Hall deals. And free agency all time best signing of Chara was transformative along with solid pick ups of Savard, Wheeler, Krug out of college were all significant. Edmonton got the Lucic signing which ... maybe ... wasn't all that.

Yikes, looking at the two Peter's work, the Chiarelli Oiler stacked hand looks so epically bad.
 

MessierII

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Well, Chia probably had a better starting point in Boston, tbh.

Marchand, Kessel, Krejci, Bergeron, Chara, Lucic, and Thomas were all there already. They had an elite bottom 6 already with guys like veteran guys like Recchi, Savard, Thornton, and Peverly. They had a strong depth D already with guys like Boychuk, Wideman, Ference and Seidenberg. They had promising young players like Wheeler + Seguin (who I guess Chia drafted, but a 6 year old child could have made that selection.)

All he added was Ryder, Horton, and an aging Kaberle. And he paid 4 1sts, a top 4 D in Wideman, player safety immunity in Gregory Campbell, and 3 2nds. He added two second line forwards and a depth defenseman. That's it.
I follow the bruins closely and this is really disingenuous. Chiarelli essentially ran that 2006 draft. When Lucic signed here he literally says in his first interview “I have a lot of loyalty to Peter. He drafted me and gave me a chance in this league. Coming up in Boston I saw what he was able to build.” It’s also common knowledge that he brought in chara and in fact every defensemen from that championship team. A bunch of those bottom 6 guys he brought in as well I’m not sure what your talking about there. To say all he did in 9 years was add 3 players is a joke.

here is the team the year before he took over

Boston Bruins 2005-06 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

where do you see almost all of the players you mentioned?

Were you under the impression he was hired at the 2011 trade deadline or something?
 
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