What can the Sabres realistically do between now and October to avoid a bottom 8 finish?

Snippit

Registered User
Dec 5, 2012
16,584
9,910
We’ve finished every year since 2013 in the bottom 8 or below. That’s right, 7 straight seasons, including 3 last-place finishes.

Teams in our vicinity have been improving substantially. Take a look at what NJD and NYR have added to the roster. I remain confident we finish above Ottawa, and probably LA, Anaheim and Detroit, but after that all bets are off.

Is there anything we can do at this point to avoid a finish in the bottom 8? My guess is we make one add of a middle six forward. Is the season already lost before it has even began, or do you see some good options on the market (trade/FA) that still remain that can improve the roster?

A lot of course will depend on internal improvement.
 

TheMistyStranger

ミスト
May 21, 2005
31,056
6,702
2c, separate Sam and Jack to have 2 scoring lines, get 25+ from Olofsson, have Dahlin take the next steps, and have the goaltenders take to the new coach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jc17

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,276
1,305
Mighty Taco, NY
I think the obvious and simplest answer is get a legit 2C. Preferably with lesser pieces than Risto IMO.

We have plenty of winger options both that will likely excel (Olofsson, Smith) and could develop in the NHL this year if too much isn't asked of them (Thompson, Nylander). All I want to see is improved center depth so Mitts can be placed in a better position to learn, and adequate coaching.

Though, ever the optimist, I think adequate coaching alone could help the entire ship rise. So even with no other moves I don't believe the season is lost before it starts. There's always a chance.
 

Snippit

Registered User
Dec 5, 2012
16,584
9,910
He's not a good center.

Indeed, and I really don’t see much on the market that’s feasible.

To me it seems more and more likely that Sam is going to get his shot at centre. Of course that leaves another hole at wing.
 

sabresandcanucks

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
2,334
170
I don't think we will make the playoffs...in order to do so I think we need the following....

JB acquires/removes

Solid second line center
second line scoring winger
removes dead weight players

All young players continue positive development
Dahlin reaches elite status
Eichel/Skinner/Reinhart dominant top line
Ullmark puts up top 12 goaltending numbers
Solid secondary scoring from Vesey, Olofsson, Mitts....etc.
Injuries are minimal

Too many big "ifs"....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baccus

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
148,136
96,770
Tarnation
Shy of finding a good goaltender who will steal them games, get consistent goaltending. That will have a bigger impact on everything else, even if they are a lazy, lack of detail oriented bunch of slack asses -- you know, the last 3/4 of last season. Effort - and I don't mean the old Nolan "oh, we have some hits that must mean we're working" variety of effort, but genuine "your legs are going to burn at the end of your shift" work.

Basic hockey would help. Come back on backpressure. Backcheck until you unit has the puck. Move to openings, give one another options. Drive to open ice. Cycle smartly on offense. Be back deep enough to give the D an option to pass it to. For the defense, play the position, know who your man is, and trust your partner if you need to go partner to partner. For the forwards, wear some bruises like a badge of honor, take the knocks to get inside as often as possible. Stop f***ing daisy curls around the net. Make changes like that detail wins and loses games as much as shots and passes. Same thing for body prep - stop clubbing so much and start acting like professionals.

And if all that isn't enough or is too much to ask of these people, yeah, fall back on the idea that a #2 center is the key to victory even more than a guy to play RW for Eichel's line to cover for his lack of robust defense. And hope that a bunch of PMD's can defend enough to start transitions to forwards who haven't shown they are good at offensive hockey now for a few years.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
148,136
96,770
Tarnation
Indeed, and I really don’t see much on the market that’s feasible.

To me it seems more and more likely that Sam is going to get his shot at centre. Of course that leaves another hole at wing.

I still think they need to kick the tires on something like a decent 3 to upgrade the minutes they gave Sobotka in the middle. I put no stock in Mittelstadt. So then it's play Rodrigues in the middle - not ideal - or find someone else. It isn't sexy but Pageau is the guy I would be banging on the Sens door for every morning. Not only does he have some success as a 30+ point player on teams that are disasters, he has some good metrics offensively and defensively... as well as being a playoff performer who will probably have some interest at the deadline if the Sabres are clearly out of it.

Or make a stupid signing of someone like Dzingel who flopped in a structured system and while he's fast and has an accurate shot, can't defend a lick so at the end of the night his line is going to be outscored. Someone has to start winning a matchup. And if he turned down 5x5 from the Sens, well... no thanks.
 

Baccus

Garage League filled with Mickey Mouse teams
Feb 18, 2014
1,453
953
I feel frustrated over how much seems to revolve around 2C.

Don't really see an available adequate 2/3C. Trying to do jazz hands on Dorian for Tierney may be the only real option outside of maybe Vegas. But we don't really have any low cash high cap contracts that might interest Ottawa.

Otherwise it seems mostly to be a hope they get a play driving winger who can drive play with not much at center.

No I'm not convinced anybody is taking Samson off Eichel's line or seriously trying him at center until I see it.
 

Baccus

Garage League filled with Mickey Mouse teams
Feb 18, 2014
1,453
953
Shy of finding a good goaltender who will steal them games, get consistent goaltending. That will have a bigger impact on everything else, even if they are a lazy, lack of detail oriented bunch of slack asses -- you know, the last 3/4 of last season. Effort - and I don't mean the old Nolan "oh, we have some hits that must mean we're working" variety of effort, but genuine "your legs are going to burn at the end of your shift" work.

Basic hockey would help. Come back on backpressure. Backcheck until you unit has the puck. Move to openings, give one another options. Drive to open ice. Cycle smartly on offense. Be back deep enough to give the D an option to pass it to. For the defense, play the position, know who your man is, and trust your partner if you need to go partner to partner. For the forwards, wear some bruises like a badge of honor, take the knocks to get inside as often as possible. Stop ****ing daisy curls around the net. Make changes like that detail wins and loses games as much as shots and passes. Same thing for body prep - stop clubbing so much and start acting like professionals.

And if all that isn't enough or is too much to ask of these people, yeah, fall back on the idea that a #2 center is the key to victory even more than a guy to play RW for Eichel's line to cover for his lack of robust defense. And hope that a bunch of PMD's can defend enough to start transitions to forwards who haven't shown they are good at offensive hockey now for a few years.

A coaching come to god moment would be very helpful. I wouldn't think you'd need that to play sound hockey, but here we are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chainshot

Gabrielor

"Win with us or watch us win." - Rasmus Dahlin
Jun 28, 2011
13,023
13,353
Buffalo, NY
Start with a trade to remove some salary, then another to add a better player. Repeat once, and you should be a bubble team, if the acquisitions were correct.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,123
6,580
- Move Reinhart to 2C
- Hunt for a winger which is a much easier task, or you could either OS Connor or OS Laine
- Trade Ristolainen could be an alternate route to get a winger as well.
- Sign Gardiner
- Look to reshape the bottom 6. Grittier and faster. I’d like to see 3-4 spots with guys that fit this type of game.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,123
6,580
Shy of finding a good goaltender who will steal them games, get consistent goaltending. That will have a bigger impact on everything else, even if they are a lazy, lack of detail oriented bunch of slack asses -- you know, the last 3/4 of last season. Effort - and I don't mean the old Nolan "oh, we have some hits that must mean we're working" variety of effort, but genuine "your legs are going to burn at the end of your shift" work.

Basic hockey would help. Come back on backpressure. Backcheck until you unit has the puck. Move to openings, give one another options. Drive to open ice. Cycle smartly on offense. Be back deep enough to give the D an option to pass it to. For the defense, play the position, know who your man is, and trust your partner if you need to go partner to partner. For the forwards, wear some bruises like a badge of honor, take the knocks to get inside as often as possible. Stop ****ing daisy curls around the net. Make changes like that detail wins and loses games as much as shots and passes. Same thing for body prep - stop clubbing so much and start acting like professionals.

And if all that isn't enough or is too much to ask of these people, yeah, fall back on the idea that a #2 center is the key to victory even more than a guy to play RW for Eichel's line to cover for his lack of robust defense. And hope that a bunch of PMD's can defend enough to start transitions to forwards who haven't shown they are good at offensive hockey now for a few years.

With or without moves all this
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chainshot

Team Cozens

Registered User
Oct 24, 2013
6,566
3,863
Burlington
I feel frustrated over how much seems to revolve around 2C.

Don't really see an available adequate 2/3C. Trying to do jazz hands on Dorian for Tierney may be the only real option outside of maybe Vegas. But we don't really have any low cash high cap contracts that might interest Ottawa.

Otherwise it seems mostly to be a hope they get a play driving winger who can drive play with not much at center.

No I'm not convinced anybody is taking Samson off Eichel's line or seriously trying him at center until I see it.

The adequate 2C could be either Turris or Bonino.
Expecting one of them to be moved for sure after the Duchene signing. Turris would be ideal but his contract would be an anchor in two years or less. (50% retained and I’m interested)
My thought is Botterill is being patient to see who shakes lose from a team in Cap hell. Cireli is the fantasy play. Ehlers would be a fantastic add. We already have our 2021 2C in either Mittelstadt or Cozens.

Nolan Patrick or Pavel Zacha??
 
  • Like
Reactions: SECRET SQUIRREL

Hasek

Registered User
Jan 2, 2013
962
549
Use our 2C as a 2C or trade him to a team that will use him as such.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
148,136
96,770
Tarnation
The adequate 2C could be either Turris or Bonino.
Expecting one of them to be moved for sure after the Duchene signing. Turris would be ideal but his contract would be an anchor in two years or less. (50% retained and I’m interested)
My thought is Botterill is being patient to see who shakes lose from a team in Cap hell. Cireli is the fantasy play. Ehlers would be a fantastic add. We already have our 2021 2C in either Mittelstadt or Cozens.

Nolan Patrick or Pavel Zacha??

Turris is no longer an adequate 2C. Talk to people who watch Nashville or who write about them and you'll find commentary about how Bonino was regularly the better player behind Turris. That contract is a saddle deal waiting to happen and they just got out from under Moulson's deal (and to a lesser extent Pominville's), they still have a bad use of cap in Okposo and dubious allotment in $7 million to two of the measurably worst players in the whole league with Scandella and Sobotka. They don't need to add 5 more years of potentially terrible contract on a guy who looks like he has already started a marked decline. That's handcuffing them right off the hop.

Philly has no reason to deal Patrick at this point. Zacha in a hockey deal, maybe, though that is going to cost.

Again, look for other teams mid-line options. Copp if they do a RHD with the Jets. Tierney or Pageau from the Sens. Bjugstad out of Pittsburgh is more of a wing, but might be available. At the lowest end, Jankowski from the Flames.

Think about this as a patch rather than a fix. "Fix" right now doesn't seem to be an option. Fit is more important than tying up contracts again for a long-term bad investment. The cap is going to level out at some point. Betting on it to never do so is like gambling on real estate or tech stocks - at some point it is going to bite them.
 

Meichel Kane

My Name Is
Jun 6, 2006
11,027
342
- Move Reinhart to 2C
- Hunt for a winger which is a much easier task, or you could either OS Connor or OS Laine
- Trade Ristolainen could be an alternate route to get a winger as well.
- Sign Gardiner
- Look to reshape the bottom 6. Grittier and faster. I’d like to see 3-4 spots with guys that fit this type of game.

I'm about a week away from putting Ristolainen at wing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mattilaus

Archie Lee

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
506
555
The one deal, or a similar deal, that I think will happen is:

1.) Bogosian to Nashville for Turris (somewhere around 20-25% retention with possibly a pick coming back, such as NJ's 2nd)

The fantasy GM in me who wants to make the playoffs in 2019/20 is making two additional deals:

2.) Montour +/- to Edmonton for Larsson +/-; and
3.) 2020 1st (lottery protected) and Hutton +/- to Pittsburgh for Matt Murray +/-.

Lines:

1.) Skinner/Eichel/XXXX
2.)XXXX/Turris/Reinhart
3.) Girgensons/Larsson/Rodriguez
4.) XXXX/Mittelstadt/XXXX

Extra wingers to be sorted out in camp and pre-season: Sheary, Vessey, Okposo, Sobotka, Smith, Olofsson, Thompson, Nylander, Ruotsalainein, Wilson. It's time to be ruthless with this group. Sobotka is a prime candidate for being buried and Okposo has to be one of the 8-9 best wingers on the team or he gets "Alznered".

Defense pairings and goal:

1.) Dahlen/Larsson
2.) Pilut/Ristolainen
3.) McCabe/Miller
4.) Scandella/Nelson

Murray
Ullmark

Hunwick is buried or is the 8th D-man if we move Scandella for a pick.

Cap comes in at around $79 million, if my math is correct. Next year Reinhart and Murray are the two big players that need contracts, but there is $17-18 million coming off the books. In a perfect world we are in a cap crunch because an unexpected player or two has a big year.

In my view, there are many NHL head coaches who get that line-up into the playoffs or at least sniffing them. Substitute Montour/Hutton for Larsson/Murray and it could still be done but I just think Montour/Risto/Miller is too much of the same thing and Hutton/Ullmark is a huge question mark.
 

kirby11

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
9,735
4,614
Buffalo, NY
The adequate 2C could be either Turris or Bonino.
Expecting one of them to be moved for sure after the Duchene signing. Turris would be ideal but his contract would be an anchor in two years or less. (50% retained and I’m interested)
My thought is Botterill is being patient to see who shakes lose from a team in Cap hell. Cireli is the fantasy play. Ehlers would be a fantastic add. We already have our 2021 2C in either Mittelstadt or Cozens.

Nolan Patrick or Pavel Zacha??

With how badly we've ****ed up the development of nearly every high prospect we've gotten in the last several years, I'm not totally comfortable assuming either one of them will be there at that time.
 

UnleashRasmus

Rasmus has gone Super Saiyan VI!
Apr 15, 2012
6,473
1,932
Nashville Tennessee
- Move Reinhart to 2C
- Hunt for a winger which is a much easier task, or you could either OS Connor or OS Laine
- Trade Ristolainen could be an alternate route to get a winger as well.
- Sign Gardiner
- Look to reshape the bottom 6. Grittier and faster. I’d like to see 3-4 spots with guys that fit this type of game.

Moving Samson Reinhart to center is asinine, and it continues to baffle me. He gets pushed around in the center circle, and doesn't have that at "it click" at the NHL level. He can be more Patrick Kane on the RW, or you can have someone like Sam Gagner in the center circle. Sorry, color me confused, at what you see, that makes you think he'd be a good fit. Don't break something that works. Common sense, dictates this. However, hey....delusional thought process makes for perfect Sabres fans. It'd be so much easier to get someone like Eakin, who would benefit from the additional pass first, rush to the net approach. Also, f*** Gardiner, that Toronto Queef cannot play a lick of defense. We have enough puck movers now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hasek and Eichel9

Tatanka

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 25, 2016
4,364
2,792
The one deal, or a similar deal, that I think will happen is:

1.) Bogosian to Nashville for Turris (somewhere around 20-25% retention with possibly a pick coming back, such as NJ's 2nd)

The fantasy GM in me who wants to make the playoffs in 2019/20 is making two additional deals:

2.) Montour +/- to Edmonton for Larsson +/-; and
3.) 2020 1st (lottery protected) and Hutton +/- to Pittsburgh for Matt Murray +/-.

Lines:

1.) Skinner/Eichel/XXXX
2.)XXXX/Turris/Reinhart
3.) Girgensons/Larsson/Rodriguez
4.) XXXX/Mittelstadt/XXXX

Extra wingers to be sorted out in camp and pre-season: Sheary, Vessey, Okposo, Sobotka, Smith, Olofsson, Thompson, Nylander, Ruotsalainein, Wilson. It's time to be ruthless with this group. Sobotka is a prime candidate for being buried and Okposo has to be one of the 8-9 best wingers on the team or he gets "Alznered".

Defense pairings and goal:

1.) Dahlen/Larsson
2.) Pilut/Ristolainen
3.) McCabe/Miller
4.) Scandella/Nelson

Murray
Ullmark

Hunwick is buried or is the 8th D-man if we move Scandella for a pick.

Cap comes in at around $79 million, if my math is correct. Next year Reinhart and Murray are the two big players that need contracts, but there is $17-18 million coming off the books. In a perfect world we are in a cap crunch because an unexpected player or two has a big year.

In my view, there are many NHL head coaches who get that line-up into the playoffs or at least sniffing them. Substitute Montour/Hutton for Larsson/Murray and it could still be done but I just think Montour/Risto/Miller is too much of the same thing and Hutton/Ullmark is a huge question mark.
That lineup gets you a legit shot at the 1OA pick, not the playoffs. Mitts on the 4th line? Lol. Turris would be horrid as a 2c.
 

Archie Lee

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
506
555
That lineup gets you a legit shot at the 1OA pick, not the playoffs. Mitts on the 4th line? Lol. Turris would be horrid as a 2c.

Fair enough.

Sadly, for you, our line-up will likely be weaker than the one I propose. Say what you will about Turris, but it is unlikely there is a trade coming for a substantially better centre, if there is any trade coming at all.

Can we somehow end-up with a higher pick than 1st overall?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->