What can the Pens really do???

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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I want to preempt this by calling it "childishly naive."

But: this year's Malkin is nowhere near a $9.5M player. His net impact has been average; average is a $4M player. 2018-2019 Malkin is a $4M player getting paid $9.5M. In the past including last year, he easily exceeded that number - his value was around $15M or so. In my mind, $9.5M is the going rate for a league-average 1C (think like Giroux or Backstrom). By the end of this year, we should have clarity on whether or not Malkin can get back to the level of a league-average 1C or not. I'm optimistic he can, especially watching him play last night. But if he continues to be terrible this year...

I wouldn't want to trade him, I think he'd block virtually anything given his NMC. I'd sit him down and ask him about Russia: would he rather be with his family there or not? I don't think the money is more appealing in Russia anymore as the Ruble fell by 50% against the dollar in the last 5 years - bet this is why Ilya Kovalchuk came back - but maybe it makes sense for Geno and his family anyway.

I wouldn't want to do this, but I'm just pointing out that I'd trade the Geno we have gotten so far this year for 3 years of $9.5M extra cap space straight up.
 
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Doogle

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Jun 8, 2010
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I want to preempt this by calling it "childishly naive."

But: this year's Malkin is nowhere near a $9.5M player. His net impact has been average; average is a $4M player. 2018-2019 Malkin is a $4M player getting paid $9.5M. In the past including last year, he easily exceeded that number - his value was around $15M or so. In my mind, $9.5M is the going rate for a league-average 1C (think like Giroux or Backstrom). By the end of this year, we should have clarity on whether or not Malkin can get back to the level of a league-average 1C or not. I'm optimistic he can, especially watching him play last night. But if he continues to be terrible this year...

I wouldn't want to trade him, I think he'd block virtually anything given his NMC. I'd sit him down and ask him about Russia: would he rather be with his family there or not? I don't think the money is more appealing in Russia anymore as the Ruble fell by 50% against the dollar in the last 5 years - bet this is why Ilya Kovalchuk came back - but maybe it makes sense for Geno and his family anyway.

I wouldn't want to do this, but I'm just pointing out that I'd trade the Geno we have gotten so far this year for 3 years of $9.5M extra cap space straight up.

Malkin, in a down year, is on pace for 85 points. This is a ridiculously bad take
 

ChaosAgent

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Malkin, in a down year, is on pace for 85 points. This is a ridiculously bad take

Call it what you want. There's more to the game than points, especially if the other team is scoring points while you're on the ice - again and again and again. And again. Not to mention the other team scoring because you took a selfish hooking penalty. Again.

Malkin has been an average forward this year; not worth $9.5M. If you think this year's version of Malkin is worth $9.5M, that is a ridiculously bad take. If you think he'll bounce back to what he's been through his career by next year, then...obviously you keep him.
 

ChaosAgent

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There's more to the game than points, if you're only scoring 20-40 per year.

You don't think Malkin, as a centerman, has defensive responsibility? That his game should be judged only by where he ranks among the league's highest scorers? Man, this mindset that offensively productive forwards shouldn't bother with defense or be judged on how they manage the puck in their own zone is pretty pervasive among our fanbase.
 

HandshakeLine

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You don't think Malkin, as a centerman, has defensive responsibility? That his game should be judged only by where he ranks among the league's highest scorers? Man, this mindset that offensively productive forwards shouldn't bother with defense or be judged on how they manage the puck in their own zone is pretty pervasive among our fanbase.

Yes, that's exactly what I said in my exact words.
 

ChaosAgent

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Except for the problem that what you wrote is certainly not what I was saying.

What were you saying? I'm not trying to be dense here. I interpreted it as "if you score 20-40 points per year, you better worry about your defense and defensive impact. If you're at 80, it's an afterthought." I wasn't trying to misrepresent you.
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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9.5m in free agency will get you Duchene/Skinner/Panarin and a small amount of change. I don't think that's worth it.

Also... while there is more to the game than points, when you're 23rd in league wide scoring you've automatically more than average.
 

Pancakes

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I think I figured it out boys. As long as we play only top 5 teams the rest of the way, I think we'll be good. Just keep us away from the bottom feeders Uncle Gary.

*checks schedule and sees Ottawa next* .....crap
 
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KIRK

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I think I figured it out boys. As long as we play only top 5 teams the rest of the way, I think we'll be good. Just keep us away from the bottom feeders Uncle Gary.

*checks schedule and sees Ottawa next* .....crap

Have we traded Malkin yet?
 
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KIRK

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Time to revisit the 2008-era trade of Malkin for Kopitar+

That was never the offer. It was after Malkin's 2nd season, when the Pens lost in the finals. I think it was Mike Cammalleri and the #2 overall (which the Kings used on Doughty).
 
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Pancakes

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That was never the offer. It was after Malkin's 2nd season, when the Pens lost in the finals. I think it was Mike Cammalleri and the #2 overall (which the Kings used on Doughty).

Cammalleri was a huge Penguins killer in 2010. Maybe we would have won the Cup that year with trade just because Montreal didn't have him? Think about it. Big brain ideas.

Then again, playoff Maf.

Also no 2009 cup because Malkin carried us to that. And uh probably no other two Cups either since Geno factored large into both.
 

KIRK

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He still hasn't clarified what he was saying, @KIRK. Call it punching down all you like. If you think this year's Malkin this year is worth $9.5M, you're just a huge fanb...oh wait.

Yep . . . @HandshakeLin was punching down. :laugh:

Cammalleri was a huge Penguins killer in 2010. Maybe we would have won the Cup that year with trade just because Montreal didn't have him? Think about it. Big brain ideas.

Then again, playoff Maf.

Also no 2009 cup because Malkin carried us to that. And uh probably no other two Cups either since Geno factored large into both.

Definitely no cup in 2009. Who knows about after.
 

ChaosAgent

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Yep . . . @HandshakeLin was punching down. :laugh:

And you are delusional about this player. You are in "full blown panic" about his game but when someone else criticizes them you rip them to shreds.

It's like when I complain about my wife. Like, I can moan about her all I want, but if someone else does it I'll defend her voraciously. It's touching in a way.
 

KIRK

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Calling Kirk a Geno fanboy would be like calling Kathy Bates a James Caan fangirl.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that this board is now infested with a new breed of idiots who make people like me and @Jaded-Fan seem so . . . mild . . . in our posts.

And you are delusional about this player. You are in "full blown panic" about his game but when someone else criticizes them you rip them to shreds.

It's like when I complain about my wife. Like, I can moan about her all I want, but if someone else does it I'll defend her voraciously. It's touching in a way.

No, I laugh at stupid people who say 'trade him', as if that's some easy undertaking with a player with a full NTC. That nonsense from you and others is childishly naive, and it's the only part of your Malkin comments with which I take issue (well, aside from the stupid hyperbole, but I understand it's an addiction). By contrast, I have no problem with grown ups offering Malkin criticism, which is why I've been criticizing him for the last 3 months. A person with a two digit IQ would've figured that out by now.
 

ChaosAgent

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Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that this board is now infested with a new breed of idiots who make people like me and @Jaded-Fan seem so . . . mild . . . in our posts.



No, I laugh at stupid people who say 'trade him', as if that's some easy undertaking. A person with a two digit IQ would've figured that out by now.

I didn't say trade him. I said ask him if he wants to return to Russia, if he continues to suck so epically this year.

"New Breed of Idiot?" You sit watching the game thinking about what line combination Sully should have obviously...it was so obvious...I'd been saying it for months/years but he's so stubborn/xenophobic/blah blah blah blah blah used in a game where Geno had 1 assist and a -2. By the way, this mega obvious line combination changes game after game.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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I didn't say trade him. I said ask him if he wants to return to Russia, if he continues to suck so epically this year.

"New Breed of Idiot?" You sit watching the game thinking about what line combination Sully should have obviously...it was so obvious...I'd been saying it for months/years but he's so stubborn/xenophobic/blah blah blah blah blah used in a game where Geno had 1 assist and a -2.

Perhaps it's time to change your meds.

It is a lower risk, higher reward gamble than trading him for the standard take you get for an elite player.

And while I know you said you're interested in trade value, not trading him regardless, I feel pretty safe in saying that his trade value will be in line with all the other elite players traded recently for bad win now returns. Like, better than 9 times out of 10 that's the return.

I get the appeal - I've been on the pro-trade Kessel side too many times not to - but if we can't even trade Kessel for the return we want after multiple attempts, how is Rutherford going to pull off the far harder trade of Malkin?

Besides, the dude was 4th in league scoring last season. I know we're reaching the age where there's the fear that every slump isn't a slump but in fact the beginning of the end, but the likelihood of this just being a slump is far higher.

This is the type of take that a rational person offers, Doc.
 
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Pancakes

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Yep . . . @HandshakeLin was punching down. :laugh:



Definitely no cup in 2009. Who knows about after.

Yeah I know. Even knowing we could have had Doughty I never would have traded Malkin and I'm just joking. Big part of three Cups. Huge regular season contributor.

It does still irritate me to this day that Hossa left us in favor of Detroit. I wonder if he hated Therrien, or why he did that. Either way it was sweet to beat him next season, although he did end up getting three with Chicago so I guess it worked out for him. But him and Sid would have been a dynamic duo for years to come had he stayed. Interesting what if.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Yeah I know. Even knowing we could have had Doughty I never would have traded Malkin and I'm just joking. Big part of three Cups. Huge regular season contributor.

It does still irritate me to this day that Hossa left us in favor of Detroit. I wonder if he hated Therrien, or why he did that. Either way it was sweet to beat him next season, although he did end up getting three with Chicago so I guess it worked out for him. But him and Sid would have been a dynamic duo for years to come had he stayed. Interesting what if.

With our luck, Shero would've drafted Bogosian. Or Luke Schenn . . . :cry:
 

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