What can the Pens really do???

Phil68

Registered User
Jun 13, 2009
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General opinion here regarding this season, what can the Pens really do to be more consistent regarding their current play? I truly feel there isn't any real trade that would work at this point in the season to elevate the team play. Trading Malkin does not make this team become a better contender, so that's not an option. I don't see a Brassard trade change the team's overall play. And coaching change would take time to adjust.

Let me know you point of view.
 

MeinerEiner

Registered User
Dec 9, 2013
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What really sticks out to me is that they don't have any structure in their own end. The breakout is a real problem which should get better with Schultz returning any time soon.

Malkin, Kessel and Brassard playing like the first human ever playing hockey doesn't help either. They have a good roster but don't manage to play up to the expectations. I expect trades coming soon
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
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It’s not too late to fire Sullivan. This team has no gee dee identity. I think firing Sully would be the most impactful move we can make at this point.

Our prospect pool is beyond pathetic, so we won’t be able to make most trades since we won’t have the assets necessary to land a good player. Maybe we can get a decent player with our first round pick, but we should probably keep that to start restocking our prospect pool.

Teams won’t be knocking down our doors to inquire about Olli Maatta.

Fire Sully and acquire a rental dman at the deadline.
 
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USMC607

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Apr 4, 2013
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I agree...

On paper our roster is fairly solid minus maybe another solid 3/4 dman and L2-LW.

Honestly it just looks like the team is complacent. No real urgency from anyone, too lax.

Then the team defense is sketchy at the best of times.

There is only about 2-3 guys that look like they are giving it their best. I understand it's tough to get up for all 82 games in a season. But this stuff has been going on most of the season besides the 2 streaks we went on.

Add all that onto too many passengers like Wilson and Sheahan. Along with playing down to interior opponents.

I think we are 1-7-1 against bottom feeders this season.

The team just needs a fire lit under its collective ass.
 

USMC607

Registered User
Apr 4, 2013
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And I honestly dk what Malkins issue is. Is he hurt?, is he sulking about something about not having Kessel on his wing?, I just dont know.

But he needs to snap out of whatever it is.
 

Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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I've said it before...people think they're complacent or not trying but that's just not true...the players are always going to say "we're good enough to beat anyone, we just didn't work hard enough"... what's happening is that they cannot put together consistent stretches of playing good hockey...that's a team that's not just good enough...first, we have too many players over 30 who have played a lot of hockey and we've lost a lot of speed and have no more youth coming up...the players we've brought in the last year or so on the forward side, like Brass, Sheahan, Pearson, do not have the speed, youth, energy and physicality we need...our back end with Riikola and MP and Schultz if he can return to form is fine...

we'd be fine if the goaltending was better or more consistent...imo the biggest issue is Murr precisely because we play a style in which we need our goalies to make big stops and he doesn't make enough regularly

we're going to need more than just one player...

the other option is to fire Sullivan and get someone like Trotz in here who has a very sound defensively structured system which would help our weak goaltending too...we cannot play puck possession and to our offensive strengths right now consistently because the type of players mentioned in the first paragraph

end of story...we need changes and we can go in different directions with them
 

ZeroPucksGiven

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
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They need better defensemen. Been saying it for over a year that I like the players individually, but man there just seems to be little defensive chemistry when a guy steps up vs staying back vs chasing behind the net, etc.

Realize this is also a team defensive issue, but if you fix the backend you'll fix a ton of high danger chances against.

Olek certainly wasn't the answer so I'm glad they shipped him out
I don't think JJ is the answer either, so I'm hoping he gets sent packing (highly doubtful)
 
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Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
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Add all that onto too many passengers like Wilson and Sheahan. Along with playing down to interior opponents.

You better watch it, there are a fair amount of people that would happy with Sheahan as our the 3C. It’s a crazy world we live in.
 

canadianguy77

Registered User
Apr 20, 2006
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Without a legitimate third wheel that works for Geno/Phil, and replacing JJ and Olli, I fear we're 1st round fodder for whatever team we have to play.

If they can manage to fix those areas, we're probably not getting past the conference final anyway unless Murray has a series for the ages.

It just doesn't appear to be our year.
 
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Shrimper

Trick or ruddy treat
Feb 20, 2010
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It’s not too late to fire Sullivan. This team has no gee dee identity. I think firing Sully would be the most impactful move we can make at this point.

Our prospect pool is beyond pathetic, so we won’t be able to make most trades since we won’t have the assets necessary to land a good player. Maybe we can get a decent player with our first round pick, but we should probably keep that to start restocking our prospect pool.

Teams won’t be knocking down our doors to inquire about Olli Maatta.

Fire Sully and acquire a rental dman at the deadline.

Firing Sullivan is a dumb thing to do
 

Turin

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Feb 27, 2018
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Tinker around the margins, especially on defense, hope October Geno returns. That’s it.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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This is America. They can do anything they want to do, except rip the tags off of mattresses and have a beer on the street on Sunday.

Or . . .

S8QKdJF.gif
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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I just don't think they are that good.

They are playoff contenders, but i don't see them as cup contenders.

Remember when the Pens strength was center ice? Now you basically only have Sid, Geno's play has fallen off a cliff, Brass doesn't fit, Cullen is ok.

What used to be the Pens strength isn't a strength anymore.

And then you got the issues with the def, and i'm still not sold on Murray despite his great play from his last injury.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
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Transition defense awareness/urgency. That's my one choice.

You know perfectly well that this team's identity, whether it's actually in sync with it or not, is speed. Everything Sully does is predicated on that.

We won 2 cups with guys who were and played fast up front and multiple defensemen who could make smart, accurate, quick decisions with and without the puck consistently.

The Penguins weren't that team when JR started. They were and played slower than much of the league.

And, that's exactly the type of team JR has spent the last 18 months deconstructing the Pens into. We're every bit as slow and play every bit as slowly in today's NHL as the Pens of 4 years ago did in that NHL.

Should JR re-embrace what once was a winning formula? Should Sully adapt to his new surroundings?

Something has to give. I see the defensive awareness/urgency as a big issue like you, but I think it's an effect and abandoning the cup winning philosophy of building a fast team is the cause.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
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I just don't think they are that good.

They are playoff contenders, but i don't see them as cup contenders.

Remember when the Pens strength was center ice? Now you basically only have Sid, Geno's play has fallen off a cliff, Brass doesn't fit, Cullen is ok.

What used to be the Pens strength isn't a strength anymore.

And then you got the issues with the def, and i'm still not sold on Murray despite his great play from his last injury.

That's the other part of it.
 

Spoonman32

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Jun 22, 2011
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It won't happen anytime soon, but JR needs to leave before this team can right the ship.
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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I think the Penguins need to look at the team 400 miles to the West that won 3 Cups between 2010 and 2015 and look at where they are now. We are 1-2 years behind the Blackhawks timewise in terms of the wheels completely coming off this thing. Too many big contracts for older, under-performing players. But that is our future if we stay on this path; it's just a matter of how quickly we get there. The team has gotten old and slow and it is very noticeable. We got skated off the ice against the Sharks and VGK. The team has regressed every year since 2016.

The issue is that by the time the dust settles and we do the retool needed, Sid & Letang will be about 34-35.

This notion that we can just tinker around the edges by swapping out our "bad players" (Maatta, Sheahan, the 4th line, Brassard, Johnson) for good players and that'll make it all work is not rooted in reality. The best chance JR has - and it's by no means a surefire deal - of turning this thing around into the next 2 years is to move on from older, big-name and higher-paid players in favor of younger, faster and more unproven players and cap space. He'll have to move some fan favorites; it is what it is. He'll also have to move players that were key cogs in our 2 recent Stanley Cup wins. He also needs to assess Sully. We hung onto DB for far too long off of his cup win, with Sid & Letang aging we can't make that mistake again.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
19,958
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Well I think they now realize they have to do something big since we likely wont get the same goaltending we had during our back to back cups.

As I said many times, during those runs our D let up plenty of chances where we were holding our breathe but our goalies made those big saves. That isnt happening now in these losses(and look at how they played during our win streak for that example).

So we are not going to compete for it all with only a few tweaks...I just dont trust Murray to do what he did during those cup runs.

They may have to trade Kessel a year earlier than I expected. And obviously have to nail that trade. The same impact to our team he had when we got him for example.

Along with moving Brassard and Maatta. Thats alot of moving pieces in a short period of time but if done right...could be exactly what this team needs for that spark again. Basically the kind of spark you get when firing a coach. Im not worried about any type of chemistry loss..since that happened last offseason(losing Cullen, Kunitz, Fleury, Daley, etc were all too much at one time imo). If anything like I said..making some big moves could have the opposite reaction.
 
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Coach Travis

Back2Back!!!
Jun 29, 2005
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There's a bit of tinkering that they should do but really, this team is not hungry in the regular season. You look at the Islanders, they're hungry to prove they're not a basement dweller and prove John Tavares wrong. And as the old cliché goes, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

That said, this is a very talented team and when they're motivated, they're unreal.

For a coach, this is actually a pretty tough assignment. If you preach 'effort' for 82 games in a row, that gets old quick. You get a bit of a reprieve from that tired message when the team is doing well but the more times you have to preach 'effort' the more tired, and less effective, it gets. This team can't help but look ahead to the playoffs because it's a foregone conclusion. Sure, it's possible for them to miss but when you haven't missed the playoffs since 2005, it's hard to convince yourself you're in any danger. There's no desire to finish 1st in the Metro, there's little desire to get home ice advantage, just enough to make the playoffs.

The good news is, they're not going to burn out as so many "Cinderella Teams" do. But it's also hard to be at the top of your game when you're sleeping through the regular season.
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
51,216
I think the Penguins need to look at the team 400 miles to the West that won 3 Cups between 2010 and 2015 and look at where they are now. We are 1-2 years behind the Blackhawks timewise in terms of the wheels completely coming off this thing. Too many big contracts for older, under-performing players. But that is our future if we stay on this path; it's just a matter of how quickly we get there. The team has gotten old and slow and it is very noticeable. We got skated off the ice against the Sharks and VGK. The team has regressed every year since 2016.

The issue is that by the time the dust settles and we do the retool needed, Sid & Letang will be about 34-35.

This notion that we can just tinker around the edges by swapping out our "bad players" (Maatta, Sheahan, the 4th line, Brassard, Johnson) for good players and that'll make it all work is not rooted in reality. The best chance JR has - and it's by no means a surefire deal - of turning this thing around into the next 2 years is to move on from older, big-name and higher-paid players in favor of younger, faster and more unproven players and cap space. He'll have to move some fan favorites; it is what it is. He'll also have to move players that were key cogs in our 2 recent Stanley Cup wins. He also needs to assess Sully. We hung onto DB for far too long off of his cup win, with Sid & Letang aging we can't make that mistake again.

Well, the Pens could ask Malkin to provide them a list of teams to which he'd accept a trade, trade him for whatever futures they can get, and use the money to sign Duchene.

Of course, the last time the GM freed up 5 million, he gave it to Sheahan and Johnson, so between that and the reality that trading a player like Malkin with a NTC isn't a complete cluster****, perhaps your implied trade Geno plan is . . . well, I'm sure there's a word for it . . . no, not going with 'dumb', as that's not nice . . . how about 'childishly naive' . . .
 
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