What are the looming issues for Dubas that you believe are key?

Pick 3 issues that are key to Dubas' success as Leafs GM.


  • Total voters
    154

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
That's the thing about fickle people. They think they can just strip NHL coaches and GMs of their accomplishments, but you can't. Their reach goes far beyond fantasy leagues, video games, and analytics bloggers.

I'm sorry but KD is really new and you can't even come close to comparing him to anyone with lou lamoriello's clout. You don't even have enough years with Lou in TOR to evaluate him as "below average". What did he do to to even get that label? Sign Marleau to a 3 year deal?
Your right Dubas doesn't have Lou's credentials, but that doesn't change the fact his work has been awful for a decade. Whose taking away Lou's accomplishments? He was terrific for many years, but he hasn't been for a decade. Whats wrong with pointing that out?

Marleau was an awful contract which we had to attach a 1st rounder to get rid of him. Lou traded 2nd rounders for rental 4th line centres. He didn't address any problems on defence, and his drafting was terrible too. He got us a goalie which is great but thats it. Matthews doesn't count.

Look he deserves to be a hall of famer, but your painting Lou as being perfect
 
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ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
4,600
Toronto
Your right Dubas doesn't have Lou's credentials, but that doesn't change the fact his work has been awful for a decade. Whose taking away Lou's accomplishments? He was terrific for many years, but he hasn't been for a decade. Whats wrong with pointing that out?

Marleau was an awful contract which we had to attach a 1st rounder to get rid of him. Lou traded 2nd rounders for rental 4th line centres. He didn't address any problems on defence, and his drafting was terrible too. He got us a goalie which is great but thats it. Matthews doesn't count.

Look he deserves to be a hall of famer, but your painting Lou as being perfect

No. Somewhere in between.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Your right Dubas doesn't have Lou's credentials, but that doesn't change the fact his work has been awful for a decade. Whose taking away Lou's accomplishments? He was terrific for many years, but he hasn't been for a decade. Whats wrong with pointing that out?

Marleau was an awful contract which we had to attach a 1st rounder to get rid of him. Lou traded 2nd rounders for rental 4th line centres. He didn't address any problems on defence, and his drafting was terrible too. He got us a goalie which is great but thats it. Matthews doesn't count.

Look he deserves to be a hall of famer, but your painting Lou as being perfect
You forgot giving Nikita Zaitsev a 7 year contract extension with $4.5 million AAV and a Modified NTC that only started this past season. So it was another mess Dubas had to clean up, so he was lucky that Zaitsev requested a trade and was able to trade him anywhere before his Modified NTC was valid.
 
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stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
26,557
32,810
You forgot giving Nikita Zaitsev a 7 year contract extension with $4.5 million AAV and a Modified NTC that only started this past season. So it was another mess Dubas had to clean up, so he was lucky that Zaitsev requested a trade and was able to trade him anywhere before his Modified NTC was valid.
Right, how did I forget about Zaitsev?
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Your right Dubas doesn't have Lou's credentials, but that doesn't change the fact his work has been awful for a decade. Whose taking away Lou's accomplishments? He was terrific for many years, but he hasn't been for a decade. Whats wrong with pointing that out?

Marleau was an awful contract which we had to attach a 1st rounder to get rid of him. Lou traded 2nd rounders for rental 4th line centres. He didn't address any problems on defence, and his drafting was terrible too. He got us a goalie which is great but thats it. Matthews doesn't count.

Look he deserves to be a hall of famer, but your painting Lou as being perfect

Lou was better as GM for the Leafs than Dubas has been. No amount of rhetoric, spin, exaggeration, revisionism, or fabrication can change this either.

But this shouldn't be altogether surprising.

Why would anyone expect a rookie GM to do all that well in a market like this anyway?
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Lou was better as GM for the Leafs than Dubas has been. No amount of rhetoric, spin, exaggeration, revisionism, or fabrication can change this either.

But this shouldn't be altogether surprising.

Why would anyone expect a rookie GM to do all that well in a market like this anyway?
Besides trading for Frederik Andersen, what other positive trades or free agent signings did Lou make?
 
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LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
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Toronto, Ontario
Often times the best moves you make are the ones you don't.

What moves needed to be made other than letting the talent percolate?
At the 2018 trade deadline Lou didn't end up trading for Ryan McDonagh since it was reported how Toronto was interested in him and help on defense was a need. Instead he gets traded to Tampa Bay and is apart of the Atlantic Division. What was Lou's only trade leading up to the deadline that year, oh that's right it was trading a 2nd round pick for Tomas Plekanec which was a complete waste.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
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Burlington
Lou did absolutely nothing about the Leafs' terrible RHD situation the entire time he was here.

Yet somehow the team developed into a winner *EDIT* by Leafs standards.

With veteran defencemen occupying the hotspots, no less.

You're clearly missing something in your appraisal.

Something vitally important.

If only blog-statters knew what that was! :laugh:
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
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Burlington
At the 2018 trade deadline Lou didn't end up trading for Ryan McDonagh since it was reported how Toronto was interested in him and help on defense was a need. Instead he gets traded to Tampa Bay and is apart of the Atlantic Division. What was Lou's only trade leading up to the deadline that year, oh that's right it was trading a 2nd round pick for Tomas Plekanec which was a complete waste.

Complaining for the sake of complaining I see..

I hope you realize this doesn't make Dubas look better, by making trivial complaints about a Hall of Fame GM like Lou?
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Lou did absolutely nothing about the Leafs' terrible RHD situation the entire time he was here.

And while we're on this topic, you'd be surprised how many people here declared one Nikita Zaitstev a #1 pairing defenceman.

Shocking I know, but there was a contingent that thought that contract was a wise move.

Food for thought ;)
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
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Toronto, Ontario
Complaining for the sake of complaining I see..

I hope you realize this doesn't make Dubas look better, by making trivial complaints about a Hall of Fame GM like Lou?
Lou made the Hall of Fame for what he did in New Jersey. While that's a great accomplishment and no one has said he doesn't deserve it, we should judge him on what he did during his time in Toronto.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Lou made the Hall of Fame for what he did in New Jersey. While that's a great accomplishment and no one has said he doesn't deserve it, we should judge him on what he did during his time in Toronto.

The team set a franchise record and climbed from last to perennial playoffs with him in charge.

Holy hell, what more could you want?

Boo hoo, there were a few bad contracts left to tend to...

You can compare Lou vs Kyle on virtually any level and Lou comes out on top, vastly.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
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The team set a franchise record and climbed from last to playoffs with him in charge.

Holy hell, what more could you want?

Boo hoo, there were a few bad contracts...
That's great, however it doesn't change the fact Lou made some obvious bad decisions. Plus since Toronto lost in the first round of the playoffs how many people bring it up as an accomplishment? If they had won the Stanley Cup that year it's something to look back on and say how it lead to a championship.

Do you think any Lightning fans care about their 62 wins and 128 points from last season being team records since they were swept in the first round.
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
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Burlington
That's great, however it doesn't change the fact Lou made some obvious bad decisions. Plus since Toronto lost in the first round of the playoffs how many people bring it up as an accomplishment? If they had won the Stanley Cup that year it's something to look back on and say how it lead to a championship.

Do you think any Lightning fans care about their 62 wins and 128 points from last season being team records since they were swept in the first round.

Bad decisions or not, they lead to better outcomes than Dubas has done.

You're conveniently tip-toeing around the fact that Dubas' teams have declined in the standings since he took over the team.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Bad decisions or not, they lead to better outcomes than Dubas has done.

You're conveniently tip-toeing around the fact that Dubas' teams have declined in the standings since he took over the team.
They went from 105 points with Lou in 2017-18 to 100 points in 2018-19 with Dubas. They still finished 3rd in the Atlantic and 7th overall, so they didn't drop in the standings.

Also why is something like that only Dubas fault? Shouldn't Mike Babcock get some of that blame since he actually coached them in those games last season when they ended up with 5 points less.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,556
59,149
Bad decisions or not, they lead to better outcomes than Dubas has done.

You're conveniently tip-toeing around the fact that Dubas' teams have declined in the standings since he took over the team.
Probably because Lou had the advantage of the 3 best players on the team being on ELCs, but that doesn't really warrant praise. Look at the list of players he brought in and prospects he drafted and tell me he did an impressive job
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Probably because Lou had the advantage of the 3 best players on the team being on ELCs, but that doesn't really warrant praise. Look at the list of players he brought in and prospects he drafted and tell me he did an impressive job

Well look at that impressive mix of ELC's, value-vets, high-value RFA contacts (Rielly, Kadri). and a very astute starting goaltender acquisition...

It made for one hell of a team.

But it takes a certain sort of GM to find that recipe.

Unfortunately our's is still trying to figure that out at the NHL level, and with a capped out team (of his own design) under a flat cap for the next two years!!

I'm sure MLSE has a very short leash on such an inexperienced, unproven GM like Dubas thankfully.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
They went from 105 points with Lou in 2017-18 to 100 points in 2018-19 with Dubas. They still finished 3rd in the Atlantic and 7th overall, so they didn't drop in the standings.

Also why is something like that only Dubas fault? Shouldn't Mike Babcock get some of that blame since he actually coached them in those games last season when they ended up with 5 points less.

Dubas shoulders all of the blame.

He frequently says it in all of his pressers and he appears to be a big boy. :)
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Dubas shoulders all of the blame.

He frequently says it in all of his pressers and he appears to be a big boy. :)
So when Toronto had 105 points the credit goes to both Babcock and Lamoriello, however the next season when they get 100 points the blame goes only to Dubas and Babcock gets none of it. That's some great logic.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
So when Toronto had 105 points the credit goes to both Babcock and Lamoriello, however the next season when they get 100 points the blame goes only to Dubas and Babcock gets none of it. That's some great logic.

When there's a seismic shift in cap-space cleared out towards one $11 million player, yes, the lion's share of the blame is directed towards the GM.

Incredible logic trying to solve a problem with the forward group that never existed in the first place.

More cowbell I guess?

What an incredible opportunity there was to solve the RHD problem...

Tisk tisk.

Rookie GM mistakes I guess.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
When there's a seismic shift in cap-space cleared out towards one $11 million player, yes, the lion's share of the blame is directed towards the GM.

Incredible logic trying to solve a problem with the forward group that never existed in the first place.

More cowbell I guess?

What an incredible opportunity there was to solve the RHD problem...

Tisk tisk.

Rookie GM mistakes I guess.
Since Toronto had the chance to sign John Tavares that's something they needed to try and I'm very happy he agreed to become a Maple Leaf.

That's a lot better compared to Lamoriello trading for Tomas Plekanec prior to the 2018 trade deadline, since they didn't need any more forwards and needed help on their defense. So he didn't address any of their needs at the time.

At least the next season with Dubas in charge he made the trade for Jake Muzzin to help with their defense.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Since Toronto had the chance to sign John Tavares that's something they needed to try and I'm very happy he agreed to become a Maple Leaf.

That's a lot better compared to Lamoriello trading for Tomas Plekanec prior to the 2018 trade deadline, since they didn't need any more forwards and needed help on their defense. So he didn't address any of their needs at the time.

At least the next season with Dubas in charge he made the trade for Jake Muzzin to help with their defense.

Dubas spent $11 million on one player in almost his first month on the job.

I'm sure it was an exciting time for him but he went right to the MLSE treasure vault and literally blew all the bucks on what?

One forward.

We needed defence didn't you hear?!

Specifically an RHD.

Do you remember what you're chirping Lou for? Not getting defencemen?

Surely Kyle got the memo that the team needed to shore up their defence right?!

It'd be cool if everyone could keep up with their own arugments/criticisms.

At the very least let's at least try,
 

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