What are the expectations for Tyson Jost?

[AnimalMother73]

Too slow and weak on the puck not sure a change of scenery does anything for him.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I expect him to be worse than Nichuskin for the rest of both their careers. I hope Nichuskin has a longer career with the Avs.

 

[Bender]

Unbelievable how much rope this guy has relative to his lack of production. It seems unconscionable to keep playing this guy over others who at least deserve a look see (Bowers, Greer, possibly even Kaut). I'm glad Kam's in but there is no justifiable reason to bench him over Jost when Donskoi returns.

Oh yeah, unbelieveable!

Expectations are a funny thing. Even though Jost is 13th amongst Avs forwards for overall icetime (12th if you don’t count Colin Wilson) he is somehow still very much expected to produce as a Top-6 forward by the majority of the fanbase. LOL

NHL.com Stats

I get that people are jaded and angry that he hasn’t developed into a Top-6 forward at age 21 yet but people need to calm down with their hyperbolic takes. He is producing at roughly a similar rate as the other bottom-6 forwards not named Compher (who's played over 3 mins more per game than him) or Calvert (who played a long stretch with Donskoi and MacKinnon) yet he is the youngest of the bunch by a fair margin.

24 - Compher - 23pts in 44 gp
30 - Calvert – 24 pts in 40 gp [played with MacK for a long stretch and boosted his numbers]
34 - Bellemare – 17 pts in 46 gp
24 - Nichushkin – 17 pts in 42 gp
27 - Nieto – 18 pts in 47 gp
21 - Jost – 13 pts in 44 gp
23 - Kamenev – 6 pts in 21 gp

Where were all of these players at age 21?

21 - Compher - 1st pro season after college (5 pts in 21 gp)
21 - Calvert - 2nd pro season - bounced between Columbus and Springfield
21 - Bellemare - playing in the Allsvenskan in Sweden
21 - Nichushkin - playing in the KHL
21 - Nieto - Bottom-6 forward for the Sharks until they put him on waivers
21 - Kamenev - Injured

What I don't get is why he's getting dumped on so much? I would understand if he was being spoonfed Top-6 minutes with this kind of production but that simply hasn't been the case as the stats indicate. Does he have regular linemates that he can build chemistry with or does it keep continually changing from week to week? Does he have his regular role as a center on one of the lines or is he continually shifted from center to wing, game-in-game-out? In both cases, it's the latter and that's not an easy thing for a young kid but to count him out completely before his 22nd birthday is wrong, in my opinion. His development reminds me a lot of Mikael Backlund who was developed in the NHL at a very young age and took quite a while for him to have a breakout season. (age 23/24)

When I watch Jost, I see a guy who is working hard and doing his best under those conditions and I don't really have a problem with where he's at right now. I think the kid has improved since last year for sure in a lot of facets of the game. Almost every game I see him getting chances or setting someone up with a really good opportunity to score. If he had a bit more luck, he'd have 6-7 more points and people wouldn't be on his case as much.

Having said all that, Jost finds himself in the position that he's still developing while playing a bottom-6 role in the NHL but that's not consistent with where the Avs are at right now or where they want to be since they are now challenging for a championship. If the Flames were out of the playoff picture, a perfect trade would be Jost for Bennett as that's the type of big, 3rd line center who's strong on faceoffs that is hard to play against that the Avs would love to have for the playoffs and Jost could get a fresh start with the Flames and Alberta is home to boot.

 

[Ceremony]

What I don't get is why he's getting dumped on so much?

Because he contributes nothing, isn't good at anything, yet is unscratchable.

 

[henchman21]

It isn't that Jost isn't producing like a top 6 player, it is that he just isn't a good hockey player. Yeah I get he is 21, but he's in the midst of his 3rd NHL season and he should be at least flashing something. He's not steller defensively, he's not steller offensively, he's not good at center, he'd not good at wing... he's just a meh player all around and isn't good enough in any area to carve out a role here. On a team that is devoid of forward talent and plays slower, he might find a way. It isn't coming here though.

I think the ice time argument falls apart real quickly when you look at p/60 5v5. There is solid evidence that skilled players in less minutes can have that number inflated past where it would be if they were getting a lot of minutes (Grigo is a classic example here). Regardless of that, Jost is only ahead of Landy amongst full time NHL players (Landy is his own problem this year). PEB is .15 ahead as the next lowest and Nieto is .25 ahead in the next slot. The Avs have 8 players above 2 and Compher is at 1.98. Jost's 1.4 is tied for 251st amongst forwards who have played at least 200 5v5 minutes. Jost is a mid 20 point player that doesn't add anything positive on special teams and can't play a top 9 role. One day it may change, but right now he's the worst forward on the team. I'm not even the biggest Kamenev fan, and Kam is clearly better.

If Jost wasn't a top 10 pick and was a guy the Avs selected in the 20s, I really don't think he'd be in the NHL right now.

 

[Pokecheque]

Oh yeah, unbelieveable!

Expectations are a funny thing. Even though Jost is 13th amongst Avs forwards for overall icetime (12th if you don’t count Colin Wilson) he is somehow still very much expected to produce as a Top-6 forward by the majority of the fanbase. LOL

NHL.com Stats

I get that people are jaded and angry that he hasn’t developed into a Top-6 forward at age 21 yet but people need to calm down with their hyperbolic takes. He is producing at roughly a similar rate as the other bottom-6 forwards not named Compher (who's played over 3 mins more per game than him) or Calvert (who played a long stretch with Donskoi and MacKinnon) yet he is the youngest of the bunch by a fair margin.

24 - Compher - 23pts in 44 gp
30 - Calvert – 24 pts in 40 gp [played with MacK for a long stretch and boosted his numbers]
34 - Bellemare – 17 pts in 46 gp
24 - Nichushkin – 17 pts in 42 gp
27 - Nieto – 18 pts in 47 gp
21 - Jost – 13 pts in 44 gp
23 - Kamenev – 6 pts in 21 gp

Where were all of these players at age 21?

21 - Compher - 1st pro season after college (5 pts in 21 gp)
21 - Calvert - 2nd pro season - bounced between Columbus and Springfield
21 - Bellemare - playing in the Allsvenskan in Sweden
21 - Nichushkin - playing in the KHL
21 - Nieto - Bottom-6 forward for the Sharks until they put him on waivers
21 - Kamenev - Injured

What I don't get is why he's getting dumped on so much? I would understand if he was being spoonfed Top-6 minutes with this kind of production but that simply hasn't been the case as the stats indicate. Does he have regular linemates that he can build chemistry with or does it keep continually changing from week to week? Does he have his regular role as a center on one of the lines or is he continually shifted from center to wing, game-in-game-out? In both cases, it's the latter and that's not an easy thing for a young kid but to count him out completely before his 22nd birthday is wrong, in my opinion. His development reminds me a lot of Mikael Backlund who was developed in the NHL at a very young age and took quite a while for him to have a breakout season. (age 23/24)

When I watch Jost, I see a guy who is working hard and doing his best under those conditions and I don't really have a problem with where he's at right now. I think the kid has improved since last year for sure in a lot of facets of the game. Almost every game I see him getting chances or setting someone up with a really good opportunity to score. If he had a bit more luck, he'd have 6-7 more points and people wouldn't be on his case as much.

Having said all that, Jost finds himself in the position that he's still developing while playing a bottom-6 role in the NHL but that's not consistent with where the Avs are at right now or where they want to be since they are now challenging for a championship. If the Flames were out of the playoff picture, a perfect trade would be Jost for Bennett as that's the type of big, 3rd line center who's strong on faceoffs that is hard to play against that the Avs would love to have for the playoffs and Jost could get a fresh start with the Flames and Alberta is home to boot.

Bennett is the polar opposite of Jost. Jost puts up good defensive/possession numbers and can't produce any offense. Bennett produces plenty of offense but is a barn door defensively.

I dunno...I'm just not seeing any real progression in his game. There does seem to be a bit more jump in his game--his acceleration is improving just a little even though his overall speed is still not good--and he's throwing his body around a bit more, but the playmaking and shooting just aren't there, and he's simply unable to create the separation he needs to do anything whatsoever with the puck.

It's probably in the Avs' best interests to keep him around. They won't get anything of value for him in trade, and his next contract isn't going to break the bank. Meanwhile you at least have a serviceable 4th line guy who *maybe* could turn into something more.

I just wish he'd work on his damn shot. Right now it's powerful enough but he can't get it on net to save his life. If he could somehow get a decent one-timer, I think he becomes an NHL mainstay. As it stands he's around replacement level.

The mentality seems to have changed with high draft picks. It used to be that they were ushered out the door if they fell short of expectations. That still happens, but you look at a guy like Michael Dal Colle, who's nowhere near the player the Islanders expected, still grinding away. Maybe Jost gets that chance, but I still think his lack of size and speed will be his undoing.

 

[LTC Pain]

Jost gets extra physicality from opponents. They know Jost is weak and pushing him around nullifies him, period. Can't guess if he can develop further to be productive at the NHL level. My expectations? I'm thinking "post-Jost" already. Sit Jost and play Khamenev.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Jost gets extra physicality from opponents. They know Jost is weak and pushing him around nullifies him, period. Can't guess if he can develop further to be productive at the NHL level. My expectations? I'm thinking "post-Jost" already. Sit Jost and play Khamenev.

This is all I’m saying we don’t have to get rid of him but it’s not justifiable to play him over Kam right now.

 

[Metallo]

We might have to ride Jost until the deadline as Joe tries to deal him. After that there is no safety net and he should be benched if underperforming.

 

[Tweaky]

Jost himself wasn’t the wrong choice. The Avs being dead set on drafting a forward (and what seemed specifically like a future Matt Duchene replacement) was the wrong choice.

Still to this day Jost was the right choice among the reasonable forward suggestions available at that time. I just still can’t figure out for the life of me why they needed to go forward. Maybe it’s simply because I personally thought Chych should have been a top 5 pick but I really struggled to understand their game plan with the 2016 draft. Seems like their decision came down to Jost, Logan Brown and Max Jones. Like why are those your three options with Chych and Mcavoy just sitting there for the taking while your NHL defense had the likes of Tyutin and Wiercioch and your best D prospect is Nicholas Meloche??

You may not be far off, but bear in mind that at the time of that draft, our best D prospect was Chris Bigras, not Meloche. Heck, we even voted CB #2 barely over Jost in the post-draft prospect rankings polls. Not sure how you voted, as your first comment in that series was for #3, and gives no indication of your opinion on prior votes. Meloche was #5, then Mironov, Boikov, Geertsen, Seimens, Andersen (new), Butcher, Lindholm and Clurman (new) in the 11 through 19 spots with Grimaldi being the only non-D interrupting the streak. Hindsight, we needed D, but with a couple of early 2nd rounders that seemed to be developing well, plus a newly acquired 1st rounder playing on the NHL blueline, it was understandable to prioritize F and take D later. Also, at the time, there was a lot of talk about them liking McLeod. As far as the board's consensus on draft day, once Keller, Nylander and Sergachev were gone, it was almost entirely Jost, Brown, and Chychrun. Brown seemed to be the slight favorite, and Chychrun was split...as many people wanted to avoid him at all costs as wanted him. I think I only saw two, including you, that flat out did not want Jost. I did not see anyone suggesting McAvoy.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You may not be far off, but bear in mind that at the time of that draft, our best D prospect was Chris Bigras, not Meloche. Heck, we even voted CB #2 barely over Jost in the post-draft prospect rankings polls. Not sure how you voted, as your first comment in that series was for #3, and gives no indication of your opinion on prior votes. Meloche was #5, then Mironov, Boikov, Geertsen, Seimens, Andersen (new), Butcher, Lindholm and Clurman (new) in the 11 through 19 spots with Grimaldi being the only non-D interrupting the streak. Hindsight, we needed D, but with a couple of early 2nd rounders that seemed to be developing well, plus a newly acquired 1st rounder playing on the NHL blueline, it was understandable to prioritize F and take D later. Also, at the time, there was a lot of talk about them liking McLeod. As far as the board's consensus on draft day, once Keller, Nylander and Sergachev were gone, it was almost entirely Jost, Brown, and Chychrun. Brown seemed to be the slight favorite, and Chychrun was split...as many people wanted to avoid him at all costs as wanted him. I think I only saw two, including you, that flat out did not want Jost. I did not see anyone suggesting McAvoy.

Yeah I completely forgot about Bigras lol.

It wasn’t even that I hated Jost leading up to the draft. I was just infatuated with Chychrun. In hindsight Mcavoy was probably the right choice but I just didn’t know enough about him at the time to have an opinion. Chyc was my guy through and through. Would have taken him 3rd overall.

 

[Tweaky]

Hindsight, Chych or McAvoy are obviously better picks. But hey, at least we didn't blow #4 on poolparty...like some here wanted us to do (by trading Barrie and 10 for 4).

And aside from those 2, I dont think there are any others that would have been reasonably in the conversation for #10 that have turned out better so far.

 

[Trinstin]

Oh yeah, unbelieveable!

What I don't get is why he's getting dumped on so much? I would understand if he was being spoonfed Top-6 minutes with this kind of production but that simply hasn't been the case as the stats indicate. Does he have regular linemates that he can build chemistry with or does it keep continually changing from week to week? Does he have his regular role as a center on one of the lines or is he continually shifted from center to wing, game-in-game-out? In both cases, it's the latter and that's not an easy thing for a young kid but to count him out completely before his 22nd birthday is wrong, in my opinion. His development reminds me a lot of Mikael Backlund who was developed in the NHL at a very young age and took quite a while for him to have a breakout season. (age 23/24)

Because fans want it all. If he were playing well we'd be complaining about his next contract demands. The guy is an X factor. He'll either be traded and we'll stop caring or he'll become a fan favorite because we get to see him devolope over the years but I bet it sucks for him as a player playing for a fanatic base that hates him because he isn't the second coming of Mackinnon. He may never become our 2nd line center at this rate.

 

[Bender]

Because fans want it all. If he were playing well we'd be complaining about his next contract demands. The guy is an X factor. He'll either be traded and we'll stop caring or he'll become a fan favorite because we get to see him devolope over the years but I bet it sucks for him as a player playing for a fanatic base that hates him because he isn't the second coming of Mackinnon. He may never become our 2nd line center at this rate.

I think the Avs had a really good opportunity to groom him as a 3rd line center behind Kadri and bring him along at his own pace. Then 2 years from now, maybe you have a guy that's ready to fill those shoes when Kadri's deal is about to expire. Instead, they jerked him around from center to wing, from line to line with seemingly no steady fit for him on the team. I don't think fans realize how tough that is to work with and produce points and contribute on top of it.

As for the bolded, I have to admit that it's much harder to post here than it was before and it's not just because of the way they treat Jost. The way a large majority of this fanbase shredded Joe Sakic for at least a whole year before he traded Matt Duchene and then acted like it never happened afterwards is pretty pathetic. It happened again last summer with Burakovsky even before giving the kid a chance to play a single game for the Avs.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't buy this notion that you can "ruin" an NHL prospect. You can slow down or speed up his progression into the NHL, and the Avs have most certainly botched his development, but the reason Jost is the player he is right now is simply because he isn't good enough. Full Stop. There are very tantalizing things he brings to the table but none of them--his shot, his hockey sense, his defensive ability, etc.--that give him an edge over anyone out there on the ice at any given time.

I'd rather they move on, but I could see them just keeping him around as a cheap depth option. It ain't gonna be a good look when guys like O'Connor are clearly outperforming him as early as next season though.

 

[Pokecheque]

I will always wonder why the Avs were soooooo averse to putting him in the AHL and just keeping him there. They sent him down for super-brief stints and couldn't wait to call him back up.

 

[Balthazar]

I will always wonder why the Avs were soooooo averse to putting him in the AHL and just keeping him there. They sent him down for super-brief stints and couldn't wait to call him back up.

Big mistakes were made with Jost and that's a big part of Sakic's learning curve. After the disaster of 48 pts season, he was promised a spot with the team before even playing his 1st game (he was the center piece of the Avs PR when they were trying to save face). Sending him to the AHL would break that promise and admit it was a mistake.

It's not the reason he isn't good but it's certainly the reason he stuck with the team despite his poor play.

 

[AvsRobin]

It isn't that Jost isn't producing like a top 6 player, it is that he just isn't a good hockey player. Yeah I get he is 21, but he's in the midst of his 3rd NHL season and he should be at least flashing something. He's not steller defensively, he's not steller offensively, he's not good at center, he'd not good at wing... he's just a meh player all around and isn't good enough in any area to carve out a role here. On a team that is devoid of forward talent and plays slower, he might find a way. It isn't coming here though.

If Jost wasn't a top 10 pick and was a guy the Avs selected in the 20s, I really don't think he'd be in the NHL right now.

Bolded is my concern too and I have expressed that too. The only thing he has going for him is that he seems like a good teammate and his work ethic.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Jost saved our franchise. He was like a real life days of future past reboot. In the real year 2020 without Jost saving us:

The Avs captain Nolan Patrick is on his third concussion after a huge open ice hit from Makar during a divisional rival game with the Blues. We're last in the division and the Canucks have our first round pick.

Nathan MacKinnon is still sitting out demanding a trade after Sakic refused to fire coach Patrice Brisbois.

John Michael Liles is going bald.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Jost saved our franchise. He was like a real life days of future past reboot. In the real year 2020 without Jost saving us:

The Avs captain Nolan Patrick is on his third concussion after a huge open ice hit from Makar during a divisional rival game with the Blues. We're last in the division and the Canucks have our first round pick.

Nathan MacKinnon is still sitting out demanding a trade after Sakic refused to fire coach Patrice Brisbois.

John Michael Liles is going bald.

Love you NEB but sometimes you are just trying too hard.

 

[Pokecheque]

Jost saved our franchise. He was like a real life days of future past reboot. In the real year 2020 without Jost saving us:

The Avs captain Nolan Patrick is on his third concussion after a huge open ice hit from Makar during a divisional rival game with the Blues. We're last in the division and the Canucks have our first round pick.

Nathan MacKinnon is still sitting out demanding a trade after Sakic refused to fire coach Patrice Brisbois.

John Michael Liles is going bald.

 

[AvsFan29]

Jost had a good game today, and I thought he deserved the 3rd star over Rantanen by a mile.



took them long enough

 

[JoeSakic13]

Nobody tell Jost this. He played like the monkey was off his back tonight.

 

[McMetal]

He's been okay the last couple games, but it's too little, too late, IMO. Unless he REALLY starts playing like a top six forward the next couple of months (unlikely to say the least), I think he's done here. There's just not a role for him on this team even if he does occasionally chip in a point here and there.

 

[JoeSakic13]

He's been okay the last couple games, but it's too little, too late, IMO. Unless he REALLY starts playing like a top six forward the next couple of months (unlikely to say the least), I think he's done here. There's just not a role for him on this team even if he does occasionally chip in a point here and there.

Agreed, at this point I'd rather flip him than continue the experiment. Although I'd like to trade him for another prospect, I'd honestly be content with a deadline deal for a pending UFA.