Kcb12345
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Would have to include Dellandrea or Robertson too I assume + conditional picks probably
What are realistic scoring forward options for the Stars at TDL?
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Would have to include Dellandrea or Robertson too I assume + conditional picks probably
Kcb12345
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Anyone know if Cody Ceci is better or worse than Roman Polak in a top 4 role? I assume better, and he's also younger.
Wonder if a deal could get done bringing these 3 to Dallas:
Duchene
Dzingel
Ceci
Could probably find a better dman elsewhere though but I consider him more of a throw in in a deal like this anyways. Would cost a fortune as it is with Duchene and Dzingel alone
Likely not a price Nill is willing to pay, but at the same time we all know how Dorion is.
Wonder if a deal could get done bringing these 3 to Dallas:
Duchene
Dzingel
Ceci
Could probably find a better dman elsewhere though but I consider him more of a throw in in a deal like this anyways. Would cost a fortune as it is with Duchene and Dzingel alone
Likely not a price Nill is willing to pay, but at the same time we all know how Dorion is.
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Blindsummit
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Knowing Nill we'll probably end up with Ceci but not the other two.
M88K
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You're talking 12.1 mil in cap hits.
We have roughly 3.8 mil in "deadline space"
Which means clearing 8.3 mil in hits (some of that could come from IR.... Johns for instace would give us another 2.35 bringing the total down to 5.95 to clear/trade out.
Ritchie and Shore would bring it down to an additional 1.9 to cut out, if we could throw in Nichushkin as well somehow.
Realistically, we'd have to get Ottawa to buy in on a package of
Nichushkin
Shore
Ritchie/Honka
Just to make the Money work
Before talking 1st rounds/Quality prospects.
Maybe they'd consider Honka for Ceci straight up since Ceci is likely to be very expensive to resign, and isn't very good either.
Dzingel is better than Shore and Nichushkin and cheaper, but there is the RFA vs UFA consideration, doubtful he stays in Ottawa, but we'd be selling them a bunch of crap and hoping they bite.
Especially with the possibility that Duchene and Dzingel don't re-sign with us either.
So I'd say realistically we'd be looking at
2019 1st, top 3 protected.
2021 1st, top 3 protected, with some Conditions attached (such as Re-signing, etc)
Nichushkin
Shore
Honka
Dellandrea
Gurianov
Essentially you'd have
Dellandrea, Gurianov, 1st for Duchene
Honka for Ceci
Nichushkin,Shore for Dzingel
Additional Sweetener for re-signing either/both
But they probably get better offers individually for each player (Duchene and Dzingel anyway)
Or at the very least want Robertson as he's our only prospect with any real NHL future, but then again Dorian/Melnyk aren't known for making smart trades. And that package is better than what they got for Karlsson, but it is still 3 bottom 6 forwards and a 7th defenseman for what amounts to two top 6 forwards and a mid pairing d-man playing top pairing minutes.
Maybe they'd prefer Roope to Dellandrea, since he likely has the higher ceiling and near NHL ready but who knows.
Kcb12345
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Kcb12345
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Depends on if he wants to play for Hitch again...although playing with McDavid may be enough to convince him..
Kcb12345
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Posted this in the regular season thread but it makes more sense here. Just his opinion but still
M88K
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ZeHockeyFan
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The notion that there is more to come isn't bad, but I doubt if Nill does anything this season. The last time Nill made two in-season trades was sending Gonchar to Montreal for Moen and sending Dillon for Demers in November of 2014. Sending Gonchar off was itself a relief. The Dillon trade was somewhat meh!, but Demers was useful for the season and a half that he lasted.
Don't mind being proven wrong.
ZeHockeyFan
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Yes, but it looks to me like he wants out of here. Montreal could be a possible destination for him.
M88K
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Dillon for Demers and a pick was a very good trade. It also followed his then pattern of getting rid of bulk for some upgraded skill. Gonchar for Moen remedied a mistake of signing Sergei as a UFA, although, Sergei looked better in MTL than he did in the fast paced Stars offense that year.
Sergei was the first of his "go for vets" mentality showing. Granted, he needed to severely upgrade his D at the time, and Gonchar was the least resistance add he could find. To be fair, at that point, needing a total post bankruptcy rebuild, he wasn't going to trade first round picks, and he had few trade assets, so UFA was the way to go, and there weren't too many UFA D at that time, I guess. May have been better ones, but Nill is conservative, and Dallas wasn't the place to go at the time, without massive over payment, to be sure.
Team building is harder for a GM than an internet poster, to be sure. You have to make all the right moves, avoid a lot of injuries, and have everyone play at their best level to actually win a Stanley Cup. How many decent teams has that never come together for? Most, about 97% of teams each year.
Sergei was the first of his "go for vets" mentality showing. Granted, he needed to severely upgrade his D at the time, and Gonchar was the least resistance add he could find. To be fair, at that point, needing a total post bankruptcy rebuild, he wasn't going to trade first round picks, and he had few trade assets, so UFA was the way to go, and there weren't too many UFA D at that time, I guess. May have been better ones, but Nill is conservative, and Dallas wasn't the place to go at the time, without massive over payment, to be sure.
Team building is harder for a GM than an internet poster, to be sure. You have to make all the right moves, avoid a lot of injuries, and have everyone play at their best level to actually win a Stanley Cup. How many decent teams has that never come together for? Most, about 97% of teams each year.
Kcb12345
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Article says if they aren't signed before the trade deadline then it's likely they're moved..but both will want 8-year deals. Personally I find it likely that Stone is re-signed. As for Duchene I'm not sure yet...but as usual with trade deadlines I'm sure it'll end up being boring and disappointing so we can probably assume an extension gets done.
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JesusNPucks
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I don’t understand why either would want to stay. They’re gonna be full-on rebuilding for a few years at least.
JesusNPucks
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If they come on the market, it will be last second, and the trade will be a scramble at the TDL.
ZeHockeyFan
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I fail to see the "building part" in the sense of putting together a team from the draft up. Nieuwendyk, for all his faults, left him with tradeable assets. Smith, Joe Morrow, Matt Fraser- all had some value which he could leverage into Seguin and even Cole (surprisingly) whom he turned into something. Not to mention, Nieuwendyk's shitty drafting still yielded Klingberg, Lindell, and Faksa. All of the aforementioned was done during the worst days of the franchise.
Nill didnt have to live through the ignominy of being dictated to by banks, got a free-reign to spend money, and has likely been handsomely compensated for his efforts (much more than his predecessor) that have yielded f***-all. When he is gone, he's going to leave his successor with less than what his predecessor managed.
No one said being a GM was easy, but there are people who do a f*** load better than Nill has done.
So f*** him and then some.
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There are not many GM's who build consistent winners, a la TB, PIT, and a few others, like SJ, who is always close but never wins the Cup or even does well in the PO. And even the best eventually fall (DET, CHI) We really thought Nill would build an SC contender/winner by now and he hasn't.
My only point is that statistically, we shouldn't have expected him to. The teams that have dynasties for the most part also had multiple no. 1 picks. For Stars to elevate, they need to miss the PO and get some lottery luck again. Without it, it is very hard to build a team equal to fans expectations. Hitting home runs on the fifth round helps, as does trading for some overall no. 2 picks (Seguin, Spezza, Kari, although the latter two are done helping)
As to the comments about TG directing the hire of Hitch, I wonder if something like that is just one lost year, or if it translates to setting the team back 2-3 years in their long term plan? Certainly, their long term plan was shaky enough, but got shakier by going backwards to Hitch, even if it does appear he taught them something about D.
My only point is that statistically, we shouldn't have expected him to. The teams that have dynasties for the most part also had multiple no. 1 picks. For Stars to elevate, they need to miss the PO and get some lottery luck again. Without it, it is very hard to build a team equal to fans expectations. Hitting home runs on the fifth round helps, as does trading for some overall no. 2 picks (Seguin, Spezza, Kari, although the latter two are done helping)
As to the comments about TG directing the hire of Hitch, I wonder if something like that is just one lost year, or if it translates to setting the team back 2-3 years in their long term plan? Certainly, their long term plan was shaky enough, but got shakier by going backwards to Hitch, even if it does appear he taught them something about D.
