What are Kiprusoff's eventual chances of HHOF?
- Thread starter Czech Your Math
- Start date
Regular season and playoffs combined...
54.00 W% (304 W - 259 L)
2.45 GAA (1,401 GA/572.2667 GMS [34,336 MINS.])
91.35 SV% (14,803 SVS/16,204 SA)
1:12.44 SO-to-GP (572.2667 GMS [34,336 MINS.]/46 SO)
Vezina
First Team All-Star selection
As of now? No.
54.00 W% (304 W - 259 L)
2.45 GAA (1,401 GA/572.2667 GMS [34,336 MINS.])
91.35 SV% (14,803 SVS/16,204 SA)
1:12.44 SO-to-GP (572.2667 GMS [34,336 MINS.]/46 SO)
Vezina
First Team All-Star selection
As of now? No.
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
What about Miller, Luongo, and Thomas?
I'm talking about when their careers are complete, not as of now. Make whatever assumptions you want, but would figure most of these guys play until ~40.
I'm talking about when their careers are complete, not as of now. Make whatever assumptions you want, but would figure most of these guys play until ~40.
For comparison-sake, here's J.S. Giguere's stats/accolades...
51.06 W% (266 W - 255 L)
2.49 GAA (1,374 GA/552.0667 GMS [33,124 MINS.])
91.39 SV% (14,576 SVS/15,950 SA)
1:13.80 SO-to-GP (552.0667 GMS [33,124 MINS.]/40 SO)
Conn Smythe
Stanley Cup
I'd argue that Giguere, who is younger, has a more impressive body of work, and no one would consider J.S. for HHOF induction.
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
Very, very slim.
Since his Vezina win in 2006 he's been a very average starting goalie - 2009-10 (when he was very good) was the only year in the last 4 where he's had a save % over .910. In a league where .915 is 'average' for a starter, that's not great.
Not playing more than 40 games in a season until the age of 29 doesn't help his career value either.
2 elite seasons without winning a Cup won't do it. And he isn't going to add to his playoff resume playing for the Flames.
He's well behind John Vanbiesbrouck (who also won a Vezina and also carried a Cinderella team to the Finals) and Vanbiesbrouck has no hope of getting in.
Since his Vezina win in 2006 he's been a very average starting goalie - 2009-10 (when he was very good) was the only year in the last 4 where he's had a save % over .910. In a league where .915 is 'average' for a starter, that's not great.
Not playing more than 40 games in a season until the age of 29 doesn't help his career value either.
2 elite seasons without winning a Cup won't do it. And he isn't going to add to his playoff resume playing for the Flames.
He's well behind John Vanbiesbrouck (who also won a Vezina and also carried a Cinderella team to the Finals) and Vanbiesbrouck has no hope of getting in.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Unless he gets traded AND has a career renaissance, he has no significant chance. It would take some significant additions to his resume to be considered seriously, and that won't happen in Calgary.
I think Thomas has the best chance at the moment due to his hardware and numbers. The only knock on Thomas is that he was a late bloomer, but I don't think that counts as much against a goalie as it does a skater. Luongo could make a very good case if he had a couple of great seasons that resulted in Vezinas and playoff success. Miller is a step behind Luongo and I really think it would take a Conn Smythe to get him in the conversation.
I think Thomas has the best chance at the moment due to his hardware and numbers. The only knock on Thomas is that he was a late bloomer, but I don't think that counts as much against a goalie as it does a skater. Luongo could make a very good case if he had a couple of great seasons that resulted in Vezinas and playoff success. Miller is a step behind Luongo and I really think it would take a Conn Smythe to get him in the conversation.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
IF he does everything you said (wins a Cup and reaches 500 regular season wins), he should get into the HHOF, even with the higher standard of goalies.
He already has a better regular season peak than some HHOF goalies - he was a Vezina finalist for 3 straight seasons, finished 3rd and 4th in Hart voting, and was one of Calgary's 2 star players when they came so close to winning it all. The short peak hurts him though - he definitely needs to do more in the later part of his career.
He's helped by the fact that nobody of the post-Brodeur generation has exactly stood out.
He already has a better regular season peak than some HHOF goalies - he was a Vezina finalist for 3 straight seasons, finished 3rd and 4th in Hart voting, and was one of Calgary's 2 star players when they came so close to winning it all. The short peak hurts him though - he definitely needs to do more in the later part of his career.
He's helped by the fact that nobody of the post-Brodeur generation has exactly stood out.
When is the "post-Brodeur" generation? Because Brodeur returned to form in 2006-08, and Kiprusoff hasn't exactly been great since then.
I don't think he was in the top 5 for 2000-2009. I don't think he's been top 5 since the lockout. I don't see him even sniffing at the HHOF unless he wins a Cup.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
- 13,486
- 26,811
Given that the large majority of goaltenders - even HHOF quality goaltenders - don't play until the age of 40, why would you have us make that assumption?
tjcurrie
Registered User
JaysCyYoung
Registered User
The funny thing is that Tomas Vokoun has arguably been a better goaltender over his career than almost all of the goaltenders mentioned above. It's just something to consider when one comes to the realization that post-season awards and recognition can be important standards to judge a player's value or relative greatness to his peers, but that it can be a flawed metric when we look at a guy like Vokoun who has consistently played at an elite level for mediocre teams with little personal accolades to share.
As for Kiprusoff, given the exceedingly high standards for goaltenders required for enshrinement in the Hall, I would give him minimal chances at this point. When men such as Rogie Vachon and Tom Barrasso are on the outside looking in it's going to be extremely hard for a goaltender who had a relatively late start to his career as a starter and who has experienced notable bouts of inconsistency to build enough statistical achievements and personal accolades on his resume to eventually be worthy of getting in.
Tim Thomas I can understand given his sheer dominance of the game the past several seasons but Kiprusoff never had the peak that Thomas had. One thing that I can see happening for Kiprusoff in terms of post-career recognition is the strong possibility that Calgary will eventually retire his number, especially given that he recently passed Mike Vernon as Calgary's winningest all-time goaltender.
As for Kiprusoff, given the exceedingly high standards for goaltenders required for enshrinement in the Hall, I would give him minimal chances at this point. When men such as Rogie Vachon and Tom Barrasso are on the outside looking in it's going to be extremely hard for a goaltender who had a relatively late start to his career as a starter and who has experienced notable bouts of inconsistency to build enough statistical achievements and personal accolades on his resume to eventually be worthy of getting in.
Tim Thomas I can understand given his sheer dominance of the game the past several seasons but Kiprusoff never had the peak that Thomas had. One thing that I can see happening for Kiprusoff in terms of post-career recognition is the strong possibility that Calgary will eventually retire his number, especially given that he recently passed Mike Vernon as Calgary's winningest all-time goaltender.
Last edited:
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
The guys who didn't have their HHOF case locked up before the last lockout.
IMO, Kiprusoff already has HHOF credentials than Luongo and IF he wins a Cup (a hypothetical stipulated by he first post), he'll have much better credentials than Giguere.
Other than Brodeur, are there any active goalies with better HHOF cases than Kiprusoff? Thomas maybe - he has 2 Vezinas, but lost his starter's job in between them and was not selected the starter for Team USA. Kipper had those 3 straight years as a Vezina finalist. Thomas won the Cup, but Kipper did everything he could in 2004.
Miller really only had the one great year and one performance at the Olympics. He's well behind Kipper now IMO, and is only 4 years younger.
Lundqvist is on pace for a HHOF career I think and is still young. But will the HHOF just not induct a single goalie between Brodeur's retirement and the retirement of someone like Lundqvist?
Kipper definitely needs to do more to have a chance, but I think he's closer than a lot of people think.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,145
Someone mentioned Beezer already as a comparison. I tend to agree there. Beezer won a Vezina, took a weak team to the final and on top of what Kipper did he was a 2nd team all-star another time.
Both goalies have that one big playoff run but not much else in the way of playoffs for their entire careers. Beezer definitely beats Kipper in longevity though. I mean it was about 15 years that he was at least considered a very good goalie.
Beezer has a minority of supporters, I would say just judging by the posters on here that maybe 25% of respondents would support him in the HHOF. But Kipper still has a ways to go to get that far. Would it kill him to get out of the first round? He's only done that once
Both goalies have that one big playoff run but not much else in the way of playoffs for their entire careers. Beezer definitely beats Kipper in longevity though. I mean it was about 15 years that he was at least considered a very good goalie.
Beezer has a minority of supporters, I would say just judging by the posters on here that maybe 25% of respondents would support him in the HHOF. But Kipper still has a ways to go to get that far. Would it kill him to get out of the first round? He's only done that once
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
No doubt that Beezer is ahead of Kipper now. Kipper needs to go back to his form of a few years ago to surpass Beezer, something far from guaranteed.
JaysCyYoung
Registered User
Hart Trophy Voting Record
Tim Thomas: 5th, 7th
Ryan Miller: 4th, 20th, 21st, 23rd
J.S. Giguere: 18th
Miikka Kiprusoff: 3rd, 4th, 20th
Tomas Vokoun: 16th, 23rd
Roberto Luongo: 2nd, 6th, 10th, 17th
Henrik Lundqvist: 9th, 14th, 22nd, 23rd
Vezina Trophy Voting Record
Tim Thomas: 1st, 1st, 9th
Ryan Miller: 1st, 7th
J.S. Giguere: 4th, 8th, 9th, 9th,
Miikka Kiprusoff: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 8th
Tomas Vokoun: 4th, 8th, 9th, 11th
Roberto Luongo: 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
Henrik Lundqvist: 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 6th, 7th
All-Star Team Voting Record
Tim Thomas: 1st, 1st, 10th
Ryan Miller: 1st, 6th, 8th, 13th
J.S. Giguere: 3rd, 8th, 9th
Miikka Kiprusoff: 1st, 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th
Tomas Vokoun: 5th, 8th, 10th
Roberto Luongo: 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th
Henrik Lundqvist: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 9th
Tim Thomas: 5th, 7th
Ryan Miller: 4th, 20th, 21st, 23rd
J.S. Giguere: 18th
Miikka Kiprusoff: 3rd, 4th, 20th
Tomas Vokoun: 16th, 23rd
Roberto Luongo: 2nd, 6th, 10th, 17th
Henrik Lundqvist: 9th, 14th, 22nd, 23rd
Vezina Trophy Voting Record
Tim Thomas: 1st, 1st, 9th
Ryan Miller: 1st, 7th
J.S. Giguere: 4th, 8th, 9th, 9th,
Miikka Kiprusoff: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 8th
Tomas Vokoun: 4th, 8th, 9th, 11th
Roberto Luongo: 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
Henrik Lundqvist: 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 6th, 7th
All-Star Team Voting Record
Tim Thomas: 1st, 1st, 10th
Ryan Miller: 1st, 6th, 8th, 13th
J.S. Giguere: 3rd, 8th, 9th
Miikka Kiprusoff: 1st, 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th
Tomas Vokoun: 5th, 8th, 10th
Roberto Luongo: 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th
Henrik Lundqvist: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 9th
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
Mainly, because if he doesn't play another 4-5 seasons (unless he wins a Cup or Hart, or something of that nature), I know his chances are near zero.
I don't think it's that unusual for high quality goalies to play near 40 though.
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
Beezer deserves consideration for that '96 ECF alone. I mean, he stonewalled Lemieux and Jagr, that's a serious feat.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Goaltenders Paradox
You introduce the goaltenders paradox which plagues many goaltenders past, present and will in the future. A number have impressive singular or sporadic achievements - Brian Boucher's string of shutouts, but such achievements only serve to tease and offer a glimpse of what could have been or unfulfilled potential.
You introduce the goaltenders paradox which plagues many goaltenders past, present and will in the future. A number have impressive singular or sporadic achievements - Brian Boucher's string of shutouts, but such achievements only serve to tease and offer a glimpse of what could have been or unfulfilled potential.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Right. Before 1996, Beezer was generally thought of as a great regular season goalie, but a goalie you couldn't win with.
I feel that Vanbiesbrouck is massively underrated, and should be a lock.
It's a shame that HHOF credentials are not the same credentials, that, you know, make you a great goalie.
@DevilMadeMe: The other goalie I can think of as third to Brodeur and Hasek (among those still active) is Giguere. Very good regular seasons, a Cup, and a very impressive (and still remembered) Conn Smythe. I can envisage a situation similar to Nieuwendyk's (although I'd argue Giguere is superior).
It's a shame that HHOF credentials are not the same credentials, that, you know, make you a great goalie.
@DevilMadeMe: The other goalie I can think of as third to Brodeur and Hasek (among those still active) is Giguere. Very good regular seasons, a Cup, and a very impressive (and still remembered) Conn Smythe. I can envisage a situation similar to Nieuwendyk's (although I'd argue Giguere is superior).
