What about Portland?

[Melrose Munch]

I'm in. Why not? Good market, rivalry with Vancouver and Seattle.

 

[Zenos]

I've never understood this mindset that Portland is a sure thing for the NHL.

I think a lot of it has to do with image, to be honest. Portland is perceived as a young, hip, and progressive city. Combine that with geographical proximity (sort of) to Seattle, Vancouver, and San Jose and the long-standing history of success with the WHL's Winterhawks and it's a very palatable potential market for many traditional NHL fans. And of course the Rose Garden / Moda Center is a modern, NHL-ready arena (already hosts a portion of the Hawk's home games).

I tend to agree with many of the other posters though - With the NBA and MLS, maybe the market is already saturated? Are there enough sports dollars in this mid-sized city to also support top-flight hockey? I'd say probably, yes. But Paul Allen is the gatekeeper, and as long as he's not interested (or at least cooperative), I doubt we'll see any action.

 

[Zenos]

and numbers wise they have about the same population as seattle

Sure, in terms of city-proper. Comparing the Metro regions though, Portland is closer to 2.5 Million and Seattle 3.5+.

 

[powerstuck]

Given that Gary Bettman stated yesterday that there was no opportunity for Quebec City to get a team, I hardly can see how any of Houston and Portland and any other city besides Seattle (because currently in the process of expanding) can get a team, except a relocated one.

It seems to me the league will want to stay at 32 for quite some time.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Given that Gary Bettman stated yesterday that there was no opportunity for Quebec City to get a team, I hardly can see how any of Houston and Portland and any other city besides Seattle (because currently in the process of expanding) can get a team, except a relocated one.

It seems to me the league will want to stay at 32 for quite some time.

I think if NFL expands beyond 32 NHL will start thinking about expanding beyond it.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

All irrelevant because NHL won't expand past 32. NHL has come out and said that it's perfect with with 2 conferences, 4 divisions, and 8 teams in each. MLB is planning to expand to 32, with Portland as a forerunner to one of the teams. If one of the fop 4 leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, then big drop off in popularity to the NHL) thought it was possible to do 34 teams, they would have done it already. NFL, who you can bet your bottom dollar has looked into expansion, decided to relocate San Diego, St. Louis, and Vegas instead of expanding. If the NFL, who makes ~$10 billion per year more than the NHL, chose not to expand when they have the perfect opportunity, than all you Portland fans need to step back into reality and realize that the show won't expand anytime soon after Seattle.

If you don't like that argument, the league also made the expansion fee so expensive that teams that were virtual lock-ins a decade ago for a team (i.e. Hamilton, Kansas City) didn't even put in an application either time the NHL was taking them. Portland didn't even apply the last two times.

Portland, at best, will be used to hold cities hostage by the league and teams to get new arena deals, looking at you Calgary and Arizona. Look at Lemieux getting a brand new arena after threatening to move to Kansas City

 

[Mightygoose]

Apparently, there is no plan to make an NHL bid according to the Winterhawks president Doug Piper

Do domain registrations hint at Hawks' NHL bid?

To Quote
"But the decision to take control of domain names such as nhltopdx.com apparently was a defensive move rather than an indication that Portland's Western Hockey League team is chasing an NHL team.

"We're not making any play for anything like that," Winterhawks President Doug Piper says. "We just thought it might be a good idea for us to control that because there's lots of talk about people getting a hold of (domains and using) them in a wrong way."

**********************************************************************************************************************
Also, mentions Allen controlling the Moda Center makes it a challenge and also pending MLB interest will divide up corporate and discretional dollars.

nhltopdx.com says 'website coming soon'

 

[StreetHawk]

I could see them as a NHL city, possible landing spot for Arizona if/when they move and Houston doesn't work out.

Odd thing about that is that the moda center opened in the fall of 1995. The start of the jets final season. So, the nhl decided it was best to have the jets move to Phoenix and play out of a 4 year old arena not configured for hockey rather than a 1 year old arena that could fit 18k for hockey.

So unless the coyotes owners were going to build a new rink mostly on their own, Phoenix was just a bad choice to start whereas Portland seemed like a great landing spot for the jets.

If the nhl hasn’t gotten into Portland by. Ow, it isn’t going to happen. Plenty of opportunities have come and gone and nothing from Portland.

 

[powerstuck]

I think if NFL expands beyond 32 NHL will start thinking about expanding beyond it.

Possibly. But I don't think NFL will expand in the next 2-3 years and I don't see the NHL following the same year or the year after. So...5 years is far away for many things to happen.

 

[PCSPounder]

I tend to agree with many of the other posters though - With the NBA and MLS, maybe the market is already saturated? Are there enough sports dollars in this mid-sized city to also support top-flight hockey? I'd say probably, yes. But Paul Allen is the gatekeeper, and as long as he's not interested (or at least cooperative), I doubt we'll see any action.

There's a difference between "the market is saturated" and "Paul Allen thinks the market is saturated." The money has been pouring in, in-city housing markets are going a bit Bay Area, etc. Other than that, yes, Allen is the gatekeeper and breath-holding exercises are strongly discouraged.

 

[BattleBorn]

With the geographic divisions and conferences in the NHL, as well as the balance issue, you probably have to have a bead on up to a 36th team within 5-10 years future prior to going over the 32 after Seattle.

After 32, I'm guessing we're done for a while.

 

[Bookie21]

Odd thing about that is that the moda center opened in the fall of 1995. The start of the jets final season. So, the nhl decided it was best to have the jets move to Phoenix and play out of a 4 year old arena not configured for hockey rather than a 1 year old arena that could fit 18k for hockey.

The NHL didn't decide not to go to Portland. Allen controls the building and he didn't want the Jets

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I'd love an NHL team in Portland. I've been there and thought it was an excellent city, think they could support an NHL team.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

There's a difference between "the market is saturated" and "Paul Allen thinks the market is saturated." The money has been pouring in, in-city housing markets are going a bit Bay Area, etc. Other than that, yes, Allen is the gatekeeper and breath-holding exercises are strongly discouraged.

the only issue is Vulcan Sports has all but the Blazers in Portland, the other enterprises Allen operates are all in Seattle, Hence WHY HE'S NOT INVOLVED more in the Seattle hockey bid. that's why OVG is doing what they're doing in Seattle....

Allen is like Foley in Vegas.... the only major difference is what is the corporate succession plan surrounding his holdings in Seattle and Portland, should be a part of the discussion going forward.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

the only issue is Vulcan Sports has all but the Blazers in Portland, the other enterprises Allen operates are all in Seattle, Hence WHY HE'S NOT INVOLVED more in the Seattle hockey bid. that's why OVG is doing what they're doing in Seattle....

Allen is like Foley in Vegas.... the only major difference is what is the corporate succession plan surrounding his holdings in Seattle and Portland, should be a part of the discussion going forward.

Perhaps Hutch, but I don't see him divesting his holdings anytime soon, either in Seattle or in Portland.

 

[PCSPounder]

Perhaps Hutch, but I don't see him divesting his holdings anytime soon, either in Seattle or in Portland.

Which is probably accurate... but given the dormant (yet should never be far from the discussion) Hodgkins / Lymphoma issues, the succession plan is of keen interest in Portland, and that seems to be a much bigger secret than Allen's true feelings about the NHL.

 

[StreetHawk]

The NHL didn't decide not to go to Portland. Allen controls the building and he didn't want the Jets

Ok. Fair enough. Was trying to counter the point that someone made earlier than Allen didn’t want an expansion team. So, when the jets were available in 1996, it would have made more sense for him to grab them rather than do the expansion with Nash and the other teams.

But like you said, all comes down to Allen. Same as in Houston with fertitta.

 

[Hynh]

The NHL is unique compared to the other three major leagues for 2 reasons. A) they make less money on their TV deals so expansion is less costly to existing owners and B) the mono-sport culture of cities like Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg mean that those cities are viable in a way no comparable American markets are. The NHL isn't a 31 team league. It's a 24 American team league with 7 Canadian teams. Compare that to the 29/1 NBA and MLB or the 32/0 team NFL. Viable ownership groups are the NHL's real limiting factor, there's tons of markets out there to explore.

 

[Rocko604]

Allen only wanted to bring in a well established franchise to the area, he mentioned multiple times he does not want to spend money on an expansion team.

I know this might rile up some of the Seattle fans, but I personally believe that Portland would be a better market for hockey instead of Emerald.

+1 for Portland. Bring back the Buckaroos!

Don't get me wrong, I think Seattle would do just fine, but think Portland could have a Nashville feel to it. I just hope having an NHL team in the city wouldn't come at the expense of the Winterhawks.

 

[voyageur]

If Paul Allen wanted the Coyotes he could have them.

I just think he is playing with house money having an NHL franchise in his NBA garden. Not sure he makes money in the end.

But the NHL would go bananas to have a strong Pacific presence.

Vancouver
Seattle
Portland
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Vegas
Add Colorado

Would be a division that would have an influence on the next TV contract.

Chicago
Minnesota
St.Louis
Nashville
Dallas
with 3 Canadian teams (Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg)

Would be interesting for realignment.

 

[powerstuck]

The NHL is unique compared to the other three major leagues for 2 reasons. A) they make less money on their TV deals so expansion is less costly to existing owners and B) the mono-sport culture of cities like Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg mean that those cities are viable in a way no comparable American markets are. The NHL isn't a 31 team league. It's a 24 American team league with 7 Canadian teams. Compare that to the 29/1 NBA and MLB or the 32/0 team NFL. Viable ownership groups are the NHL's real limiting factor, there's tons of markets out there to explore.

Don't really get what this ''mono-sport'' culture means.

All those cities may not have NBA/NFL/MLB but all of them have some kind of ''2nd tier'' pro-sports besides hockey and that includes MLS and CFL teams.

I guess New York should be disadvantaged because they have 2 NHL (3 with Devils), 2 NFL, 2 MLB, 2 NBA, 2 MLS teams while some cities like Green Bay only have one pro-sports team.

 

[singlesliceofcheese]

Expansion or relocation to Portland would be a low-risk move, but I am not certain as to when it would occur, as Houston is currently the frontrunner for an expansion team. Some may assert that they would be the 34th franchise in the league, but I could not see them misaligning the league again, so Quebec will hopefully receive an opportunity for expansion.

 

[Grudy0]

I'm bumping this - RIP Paul Allen...

IMHO, I'm wondering if Bill Gallacher new something.

 

[mouser]

I'm bumping this - RIP Paul Allen...

IMHO, I'm wondering if Bill Gallacher new something.

RIP Paul Allen.

I’m going to close this because I think the BoH discussion would benefit more from a new Portland thread then bumping this one.

If anyone wants to create a new thread discussing the Portland sports landscape after Allen passing away please do.