Speculation: What’s up with the Preds?

Soundgarden

#164303
Jul 22, 2008
17,385
5,994
Spring Hill, TN
Eh, we've been rumored to be in on Hoffman and we were right with Buffalo on Hall. If we don't get Hoffman we may try Duclair and if not we'll just run with Tolvanen or Tomasino.
 
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TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
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we cleared out guys and have about $13 million in cap space. We need at least one top six winger. No trade rumors or even free agency rumors really. There is no way Poile will be crazy enough to think our current roster is better than last season, because it’s not.

I wonder if Poile is working on a Laine or Gaudreau deal?? Maybe Hoffman??

There has to be some sort of plan!!
maybe poile has learned his lessons with duchene. costly fa acquisitions aren't always a smart investment. currently cap space has huge value. would you rather have hoffman at 4y/6m or killorn and a 3rd for future considerations?
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
7,728
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hypothetical:
Vegas won AlexP sweepstakes they really only have to protect him and Shea in exp dr.
Are trying to move MAF he's 7m per x 2.

It's not clear LV has enuf in futures that I want that would work, but let's say they retain 3m per on MAF [who NY does not want] down to 4m.

Would you do a three way?

to NYR
from LV, minimum of
LV 2021 + 2022 1sts + NJ 2021 2nd
Cody Glass
+ something else mutually agreeable from LV

from Preds
NAS 2021 2nd + tomasino


to LV
Deangelo

to Nashville
from Rangers
Buchnevich + Strome
from LV
MAF retained


something like that?
Buch shoots lefty but does either W, proven good enuf to play w/Kreider + Zib,
Strome good facilitator with sniper [Panarin], will fit proportionately to his linemates and is a righty shot C who can slide to RW

in both cases, just want to avoid long term cap, and already give mo mins to Kakko, Krav, Chytil, Gauthier, and Nils L


Vegas adds possible emerging Zubov level RD they can protect in exp dr

Preds
get solid short term net boost, add rfa guys for now, both in mid 20s can be w/team another 4-5 yrs.
:skeptic:

in summary:
ny out: rfa rights to strome, rfa rights (now 2yr/4.8m) deangelo and buchnevich
ny in: vegas 1st 21, vegas 1st 22, njd 2nd 21, nas 2nd 21, glass and tomasino

vegas out: maf (at 4m), vegas 1st 21, vegas 1st 22, njd 2nd 21 and glass
vegas in: rfa rights (now 2yr/4.8m) deangelo

vegas doesn't even save cap and you have the nerves to put the word MINIMUM in there as well. :biglaugh:
 
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Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,764
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Seems to me Poile needs to go. Been there the whole franchise history and seems to have a habit of picking the wrong centers to back. Johansen, Turris and Duchene all failed to be the #1 they desperately need and he overpays for them. I think they need a new face with new ideas to come in.
 

Patty Ice

Straight to the Banc
Feb 27, 2002
13,854
3,339
Not California
hypothetical:
Vegas won AlexP sweepstakes they really only have to protect him and Shea in exp dr.
Are trying to move MAF he's 7m per x 2.

It's not clear LV has enuf in futures that I want that would work, but let's say they retain 3m per on MAF [who NY does not want] down to 4m.

Would you do a three way?

to NYR
from LV, minimum of
LV 2021 + 2022 1sts + NJ 2021 2nd
Cody Glass
+ something else mutually agreeable from LV

from Preds
NAS 2021 2nd + tomasino


to LV
Deangelo

to Nashville
from Rangers
Buchnevich + Strome
from LV
MAF retained


something like that?
Buch shoots lefty but does either W, proven good enuf to play w/Kreider + Zib,
Strome good facilitator with sniper [Panarin], will fit proportionately to his linemates and is a righty shot C who can slide to RW

in both cases, just want to avoid long term cap, and already give mo mins to Kakko, Krav, Chytil, Gauthier, and Nils L


Vegas adds possible emerging Zubov level RD they can protect in exp dr

Preds
get solid short term net boost, add rfa guys for now, both in mid 20s can be w/team another 4-5 yrs.

You probably put a lot of work plotting out this trade so let me provide some constructive criticism worthy of the thought put it.

WHAT A JOKE.
 
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Dr Danglefest

Lindros|Giroux|Krug
May 29, 2010
3,396
485
THE SouthShore, MASS
Realistically he has about $8.5M in cap space. And likely just 1 roster spot open, that 2nd line LW spot. It was supposed to be for Hall. But that fell through. So now he's biding his time. He'll get a bargain at some point, probably. He can afford to wait, since the market is over-saturated. Whether he picks up somebody from the Lightning, signs Hoffman or somebody else, or just lets the prospects compete for that spot, I don't think it's a worse lineup than last year. Sissons will need to step back up to his old self to replace what we lost in Bonino, but Poile shored up the 3rd pair on D which has been an eyesore for a few years. The main thing really is that the top 4 forwards just have to start playing up to their potential and the coach has to figure out how to make the special teams work. If (still a big "if") they can do all that, then they could be a borderline playoff team again.

I don't think the Preds have the assets to spare to trade for a player of Laine's stature, especially within the division. Poile will either sign a leftover UFA, pick up somebody's cap dump, or audition Tolvanen/Tomasino in the spot.

It doesn't sound like the Preds are indicating any Covid financial issues. They would have signed Hall if he wanted to be here, but he's hoping for more money when he eventually signs a longer term deal. Fair enough. But if he had signed, the Preds would have been shoe-horned right up against the cap again. So the Covid finances weren't an issue. But at the same time, if they can end up a few million under the cap, it can't hurt at this point.

Forsberg ($6M) - Johansen ($8M)- Arvidsson ($4.25M)
XXX - Duchene ($8M) - Kunin (?RFA - $3M?)
Grimaldi ($2M) - Sissons ($2.857M) - Trenin ($0.725M)
Jarnkrok ($2M) - Richardson ($1M) - Cousins ($1.5M)
McCarron ($0.700M) (or Pitlick, or whoever wins it in camp)

Josi ($9.059M) - Ellis ($6.25M)
Ekholm ($3.75M) - Fabbro ($0.925M)
Borowiecki ($2M) - Benning ($1M)
Tinordi ($700k) - Carrier ($0.733M)

Rinne ($5M)
Saros ($1.5M)

Turris buyout ($2M)
Santini buyout ($0.04167M)

TOTAL: $72.99M
CAP SPACE = $8.5M

Tolvanen?

isn’t he no longer waiver exempt? Or did he fall a game or two shy because the season got cut short? I thought Poile has said that Tolvanen was going to get a long look this preseason at a Roster spot
 

Dr Danglefest

Lindros|Giroux|Krug
May 29, 2010
3,396
485
THE SouthShore, MASS
hypothetical:
Vegas won AlexP sweepstakes they really only have to protect him and Shea in exp dr.
Are trying to move MAF he's 7m per x 2.

It's not clear LV has enuf in futures that I want that would work, but let's say they retain 3m per on MAF [who NY does not want] down to 4m.

Would you do a three way?

to NYR
from LV, minimum of
LV 2021 + 2022 1sts + NJ 2021 2nd
Cody Glass
+ something else mutually agreeable from LV

from Preds
NAS 2021 2nd + tomasino


to LV
Deangelo

to Nashville
from Rangers
Buchnevich + Strome
from LV
MAF retained


something like that?
Buch shoots lefty but does either W, proven good enuf to play w/Kreider + Zib,
Strome good facilitator with sniper [Panarin], will fit proportionately to his linemates and is a righty shot C who can slide to RW

in both cases, just want to avoid long term cap, and already give mo mins to Kakko, Krav, Chytil, Gauthier, and Nils L


Vegas adds possible emerging Zubov level RD they can protect in exp dr

Preds
get solid short term net boost, add rfa guys for now, both in mid 20s can be w/team another 4-5 yrs.

bern brother, I’m sure you put some thought into it, but you have to see where the Rangers get far more back than they deserve...

Ranger In - Cody Glass, Philip Tomasino, LV 2021 1st, LV 2022 1st, NYR 2021 2nd, LV 2021 2nd, additional asset
Rangers Out - Tony DeAngelo, Pavel Buchnevich, Ryan Strome

quick reaction: Rangers get equivalent of 4 1sts and 2 2nds and apparently an additional asset for a 2nd pair Dman a top 6 winger and a middle 6 Center, none of the assets being players with a history of sustained above average production.

Golden Knights In - Tony DeAngelo
Golden Knights Out - 2021 1st, 2022 1st, 2022 2nd, Cody Glass, MAF, additional asset

quick Reaction: Vegas gets absolutely bent. You can argue it’d cost a 1st and a 2nd to ship out Fluery that’s what plenty of reports have said, fine...but not WITH retention...and then to trade an additional 1st and Glass and a mystery asset for a 2nd pair Dman...no chance. Not to mention the team taking on MAF somehow doesn’t get the spoils of the draft pick return.

Predators In - Pavel Buchnevich, Ryan Strome, MAF
Predators Out - Tomasino, 2021 2nd

quick reaction: why are the Predators trading for MAF when they have a goalie tandem already that will be just fine, I suppose you are insinuating Buchnevich and Strome are worth the equivalent of 2 1sts and 2 2nds...well they aren’t.

it’s a self serving offer that helps the Rangers and nobody else involved
 

GermanSpitfire

EU Video Scout for McKeen’s
Jul 20, 2020
12,286
21,873
www.mckeenshockey.com
hypothetical:
Vegas won AlexP sweepstakes they really only have to protect him and Shea in exp dr.
Are trying to move MAF he's 7m per x 2.

It's not clear LV has enuf in futures that I want that would work, but let's say they retain 3m per on MAF [who NY does not want] down to 4m.

Would you do a three way?

to NYR
from LV, minimum of
LV 2021 + 2022 1sts + NJ 2021 2nd
Cody Glass
+ something else mutually agreeable from LV

from Preds
NAS 2021 2nd + tomasino


to LV
Deangelo

to Nashville
from Rangers
Buchnevich + Strome
from LV
MAF retained


something like that?
Buch shoots lefty but does either W, proven good enuf to play w/Kreider + Zib,
Strome good facilitator with sniper [Panarin], will fit proportionately to his linemates and is a righty shot C who can slide to RW

in both cases, just want to avoid long term cap, and already give mo mins to Kakko, Krav, Chytil, Gauthier, and Nils L


Vegas adds possible emerging Zubov level RD they can protect in exp dr

Preds
get solid short term net boost, add rfa guys for now, both in mid 20s can be w/team another 4-5 yrs.
Vegas is exempted from Seattle‘a expansion
 
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bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,566
3,656
Da Big Apple
Not appealing at all from a Preds POV. We help out Vegas and NYR both by eating a bunch of cap while also giving up our best prospect. In return we get Turris 2.0 (who we'll have to pay after having a "career year"), a goalie we don't need and Buchnevich. It also blows up our cap situation right after Poile pretty well fixed it this offseason. Much rather save the space to try for one impact forward and retain some cap space going forward (and keep Tomasino).

Thank you. Substantive. Some disagree; just want to mention for starters...
- "help out Vegas and NYR both by eating a bunch of cap"
Vegas will make its own moves to improve cap w/w'o Nashv.
The ? is if you think the return is worth what is surrendered, both cap and otherewise.
- You refer to Strome as "Turris 2.0", inference is a nothingburger.
Strome is not a dominant guy, but has proven he is highly effective as complementary.
There is no comparison. Also, not our fault you guys gave him huge $ which you since had to buy out.
Setting aside Turris was re-signed for cheap, Strome is half-ish what Turris # was, and Strome is more productive.
- "we get ... a goalie we don't need and Buchnevich. It also blows up our cap situation"
Your starter is also mid 30s like MAF.
Having both for 2 yrs to reinforce each other while youth replacement develops his game further is arguably an add. Certainly not for MAF at full pop; but down to 4? On a timetable w/Ds in their prime, trying to max that?
- Buchnevich, as per what I quoted of OP, is type of W upgrade Preds need. Sure, a Hall is nicer if he elects to come to Nashville for acceptable term, but he did not. He chose to go to BUF and check out Eich.


:skeptic:

in summary:
ny out: rfa rights to strome, rfa rights (now 2yr/4.8m) deangelo and buchnevich
ny in: vegas 1st 21, vegas 1st 22, njd 2nd 21, nas 2nd 21, glass and tomasino

vegas out: maf (at 4m), vegas 1st 21, vegas 1st 22, njd 2nd 21 and glass
vegas in: rfa rights (now 2yr/4.8m) deangelo

vegas doesn't even save cap and you have the nerves to put the word MINIMUM in there as well. :biglaugh:
Can you put anything substantive in your response besides a summary?


First mistake. Vegas is exempt from the Expansion draft. The rest.. ugh.
Good catch, but actually makes my pt further. Vegas exempt is all the more reason for them to add Deangelo.


You probably put a lot of work plotting out this trade so let me provide some constructive criticism worthy of the thought put it.

WHAT A JOKE.
Criticism, yes, but not constructive.



bern brother, I’m sure you put some thought into it, but you have to see where the Rangers get far more back than they deserve...

Ranger In - Cody Glass, Philip Tomasino, LV 2021 1st, LV 2022 1st, NYR 2021 2nd, LV 2021 2nd, additional asset
Rangers Out - Tony DeAngelo, Pavel Buchnevich, Ryan Strome

quick reaction: Rangers get equivalent of 4 1sts and 2 2nds and apparently an additional asset for a 2nd pair Dman a top 6 winger and a middle 6 Center, none of the assets being players with a history of sustained above average production.

Golden Knights In - Tony DeAngelo
Golden Knights Out - 2021 1st, 2022 1st, 2022 2nd, Cody Glass, MAF, additional asset

quick Reaction: Vegas gets absolutely bent. You can argue it’d cost a 1st and a 2nd to ship out Fluery that’s what plenty of reports have said, fine...but not WITH retention...and then to trade an additional 1st and Glass and a mystery asset for a 2nd pair Dman...no chance. Not to mention the team taking on MAF somehow doesn’t get the spoils of the draft pick return.

Predators In - Pavel Buchnevich, Ryan Strome, MAF
Predators Out - Tomasino, 2021 2nd

quick reaction: why are the Predators trading for MAF when they have a goalie tandem already that will be just fine, I suppose you are insinuating Buchnevich and Strome are worth the equivalent of 2 1sts and 2 2nds...well they aren’t.

it’s a self serving offer that helps the Rangers and nobody else involved
Best critique so far.
Deserves full attention to detail and real world pulls me away atm, but I will get back to you.

---------
Just adding Rangers above will be sold to highest bidders. NY is not under immediate pressure, can jettison Smith, so they have some flex as to when they move the above guys.

I went w/this as a 3 way b'c I saw a fit with a largely reduced MAF to Preds which created space for Deangelo. However, LV does not need this deal to move MAF or otherwise create cap space.

Ergo,
what would be helpful would be,
in a vacuum,
this deal aside on a shelf
is to answer
do Preds want MAF retained down to 4
yes or no
and if yes,
what do Preds cough up for that?

------
If the answer is yes, some version of this deal may be survivable post tweak.
If the answer is no,
then should not be pursued and a view to consider this as 2 separate possible trades w/o MAF is what emerges.
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,876
11,256
maybe poile has learned his lessons with duchene. costly fa acquisitions aren't always a smart investment. currently cap space has huge value. would you rather have hoffman at 4y/6m or killorn and a 3rd for future considerations?
I will take door #2. I like the idea of Killorn a lot. If we can really have him AND a pick just to take him, I'm all for that.
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,876
11,256
Tolvanen?

isn’t he no longer waiver exempt? Or did he fall a game or two shy because the season got cut short? I thought Poile has said that Tolvanen was going to get a long look this preseason at a Roster spot
Tolvanen is still waiver and expansion exempt. And if they don't fill the 2nd line spot, I'm sure he will get a long look. He started slow in Milwaukee but finished well last season. In theory he has been learning a more rounded game in the AHL. But he's still just 21 and hopefully he has a good time in the KHL and comes back with confidence. But it sounds like the team has been impressed more by Tomasino lately, so even while Tolvanen would get a look, he'll get pushed hard by Tomasino I suspect.

But we'll see what happens. At some point I suspect the Preds will sign/trade for somebody instead. It might take a month, though. If they do, I wouldn't mind if they just let Tolvanen play out the whole year in the KHL again.

I pencilled Trenin into the #3RW spot, but it's hard to say where his upside really is. I think we saw last season that he's easily the most NHL-ready of our prospects, and the most clearly assured of getting a spot on the team. But just where he fits in the lineup remains to be seen. How much offense will he bring at the NHL level? He brought more than Tolvanen at the AHL level, so it shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that Trenin could scoop a 2nd line role either.
 

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
19,005
10,371
Shelbyville, TN
Nothing is up with the Preds, Poile is simply retooling. He tried signing Hall longterm but he took the 1 year deal. He may move to another option or may give the kids a shot.

Money is not the issue. He has already stated he is not being held by any hidden level by the owners.
 
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herzausstein

Registered User
Aug 31, 2014
6,597
4,543
West Virginia
I think Poile missed out on Hall and doesn't want to pay alot for Hoffman since he's fairly 1 dimensional.
He made depth fixes which should help out in the locker room as well as the 4th line and 3rd pairing

Some options:
1) With over half the teams having little to no capspace, he's waiting for some UFAs to drop their asking price.
2) He's waiting to see who breaks loose in a trade. With so many teams up against the cap, there's going to be some movement there.
3) He thinks Tolvanen and Tomasino are NHL ready and deserve an actual shot. Getting another top 6 essentially blocks them both out if he thinks Kunin is a top 6 forward.
4) He wants to go 4/4/1 during expansion and getting another forward overcomplicates things.
 

WeWentBlues

Registered User
May 3, 2017
2,061
1,798
I'm wondering if teams are just riding it out right now until we know what next season looks like.
 

Maurice of Orange

Wahatquenak
Feb 5, 2016
10,125
6,737
I can’t see Nashville going into this season without making anymore additions unless they don’t plan on contending in 20-21 for a playoff spot. Hoffman would be a great addition to this roster.

Predators roster if no additions are made.
Line 1 LW Forsberg C Johansen RW Arvidsson
Line 2 LW Tolvanen C Duchene RW Kunin
Line 3 LW Grimaldi C Jarnkrok RW Trenin
Line 4 LW Cousins C Richardson RW Sissons

1st Pair LD Josi RD Ellis
2nd Pair LD Ekholm RD Fabbro
3rd Pair LD Borowiecki RD Benning

Goalies:
Starter: Rinne
Backup: Saros

Scratches:
RW McCarron
LW Pitlick
LD Tinordi
 

Soundgarden

#164303
Jul 22, 2008
17,385
5,994
Spring Hill, TN
Seems to me Poile needs to go. Been there the whole franchise history and seems to have a habit of picking the wrong centers to back. Johansen, Turris and Duchene all failed to be the #1 they desperately need and he overpays for them. I think they need a new face with new ideas to come in.

Johansen and Duchene have been fine. Duchene's only played 66 out of a potential 574 games for us, and he was hovering at or around PPG for about half of them. Let's wait a minute before he's labeled as big of a bust as Turris was. Johansen's overpaid by 2M.

Remember when they fired Laviolette for John f***ing Hynes?

Ooof.

And do you remember how Laviolette sucked ass for the last season and a half he was in Nashville? Historically worst power play. Oof.
 

KirkAlbuquerque

#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Mar 12, 2014
31,640
36,370
New York
Same as the Blue Jackets. Everyone thought they were prepping for a major splash but it turns out these small market teams need to save money
 

Paperbagofglory

Registered User
Nov 15, 2010
5,557
4,730
This is the year that teams will free up cap space and do nothing because of financial implications. If fans are not allowed back for another season i could see a few teams fold.
 

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
19,005
10,371
Shelbyville, TN
Same as the Blue Jackets. Everyone thought they were prepping for a major splash but it turns out these small market teams need to save money
Once again it has nothing to do with money. Poile has already stated the owners have not put him under any financial restrictions.

He offered Hall a long term deal, he chose to take the 1 year deal. Had he taken it we would have been right at the cap. For Nashville anyways it has nothing to do with money.
 
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BigFatCat999

First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
Apr 23, 2007
18,812
3,001
Campbell, NY
I think it went like this:

Poile: Look, you f***ers ask for help and you can score enough by yourselves. Prove to me you can win. If not? Screw yah.
 

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