WHA ramping things up - No Salary Cap

Status
Not open for further replies.

pacde

Registered User
Dec 9, 2004
85
0
BlackRedGold said:
The issue at hand was Edmonton's idiotic claim that they couldn't compete under the previous CBA. The draft record is critical to explaining Edmonton's woes. With a good team, Edmonton would clearly see its revenues rise significantly.

As for the financial woes of Ottawa and Buffalo, they were clearly not the result of operational difficulties.

The Oilers made money last season. How much should they have made on their investment? And how much of a capital gain should they make on it if they should sell it?

But you're clearly a very childish person who has difficulty keeping up with arguments.

Sounds like you have been a hockey fan for about a week. There have been a string of good to very good NHL hockey players leaving Deadmonton for more lucrative contracts. They have tried to keep their finances on a balance and their overall ability to keep up to some of the other teams have clearly suffered. They made money last year maybe - but it cant be much and for them to ice the team they should have been able to build (if all the teams were on even footing) would be costing them something they cant afford to where they would be losing money. So your sitting there hammering them for making money - being fiscally responsible yet not getting wealthy - and yet you would like to see them take that money and blow it like a drunken sailor on all the Doug Weights and Curtis Josephs that left town. You dont know s about the history
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Splatman Phanutier said:
Everyone else should. It affects the market that all other teams have to sign their players by.

You don't understand that?

It doesn't affect other teams at all since the Rangers buy their players on the free market. What they sign someone for has no relevance on any other player.

If it did, Iginla would be making more money then Holik.
 

pacde

Registered User
Dec 9, 2004
85
0
BlackRedGold said:
Why is it that many Oiler fans act like twelve year olds to begin with?

"My team can't win! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!"

"The CBA is unfair! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!"

"Bob Goodenow is a bad man! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!"

"We can't keep our all players! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!"

I take that back. They don't act like twelve year olds at all. They're not that mature.


I think this qualifies as a personal attack.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
63,046
34,003
Parts Unknown
BlackRedGold said:
It doesn't affect other teams at all since the Rangers buy their players on the free market. What they sign someone for has no relevance on any other player.

If it did, Iginla would be making more money then Holik.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2579344&postcount=106

You must be a fool if you actually believe what the Rangers sign players for has no affect on other players contracts. See what Jon Klemm signed for. See what Aaron Miller and Mattias Norstrom signed for. See what Uwe Krupp signed for. I can go on and on and on with the list of names and players who got a significant raise after seeing the money the Rangers threw at role players. You don't think Holik's signing raised the bar for checking line forwards? You must have had your eyes shut and your ears clogged when John Madden, Kris Draper and Craig Conroy got their new contracts.
 

dakota

Registered User
May 18, 2002
1,314
0
Ottawa
Visit site
BlackRedGold said:
It doesn't affect other teams at all since the Rangers buy their players on the free market. What they sign someone for has no relevance on any other player.

If it did, Iginla would be making more money then Holik.

that is a sign you have not been around long or have not been paying attention... even the NHLPA would disagree with you...
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Ziggy Stardust said:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2579344&postcount=106

You must be a fool if you actually believe what the Rangers sign players for has no affect on other players contracts. See what Jon Klemm signed for. See what Aaron Miller and Mattias Norstrom signed for. See what Uwe Krupp signed for. I can go on and on and on with the list of names and players who got a significant raise after seeing the money the Rangers threw at role players. You don't think Holik's signing raised the bar for checking line forwards? You must have had your eyes shut and your ears clogged when John Madden, Kris Draper and Craig Conroy got their new contracts.

They got significant raises because they become unrestricted free agents, not because of any signings by the Rangers. Since the supply of unrestricted free agents is low due to the high age of UFA status, teams pay a premium when players hit the open market.

Once again, if the Rangers signing Holik has such a big effect on other players, why doesn't Iginla at least make as much as Holik?
 

YellHockey*

Guest
dakota said:
that is a sign you have not been around long or have not been paying attention... even the NHLPA would disagree with you...

With that argument, I'll admit I'm wrong. In ten years when you're ready for university you should consider law school with that type of logic and those debating skills.
 

Bring Back Bucky

Registered User
May 19, 2004
9,997
3,071
Canadas Ocean Playground
BlackRedGold said:
Why is it that many Oiler fans act like twelve year olds to begin with?

"My team can't win! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!"

"The CBA is unfair! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!"

"Bob Goodenow is a bad man! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!"

"We can't keep our all players! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!"

I take that back. They don't act like twelve year olds at all. They're not that mature.


All those in favor of ignoring this twelve year old ******* say, "Aye"
 

se7en*

Guest
BlackRedGold said:
The issue at hand was Edmonton's idiotic claim that they couldn't compete under the previous CBA. The draft record is critical to explaining Edmonton's woes. With a good team, Edmonton would clearly see its revenues rise significantly.

Well you know what? That CBA is over and done with. Are you saying that their bad draft record from the mid-90s was the only reason why they claimed they couldn't compete?

We had a good team. In 2001 they were poised to possibly become a powerhouse. Then Weight signed with St. Louis for $9,000,000 and Edmonton offered him $6,000,000 and set us back around 5 years. So tell me, this isn't conclusive evidence that maybe issues other than a poor draft record from a decade ago contributed to our problems?

As for the financial woes of Ottawa and Buffalo, they were clearly not the result of operational difficulties.

Please elaborate. They both went bankrupt yet it was 'clearly' not because of 'operational difficulties'?

But you're clearly a very childish person who has difficulty keeping up with arguments.

:lol If you didn't see little pots and kettles floating around in your head as you typed this - you're clearly delusional. I suppose you think you've gotten a good point across in the midst of all your name-calling.

I would just like to provide this for everyone to see who is really the child throwing tantrums:

BlackRedGold said:
Why is it that many Oiler fans act like twelve year olds to begin with?

"My team can't win! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!"

"The CBA is unfair! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!"

"Bob Goodenow is a bad man! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!"

"We can't keep our all players! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!"

I take that back. They don't act like twelve year olds at all. They're not that mature.

You should change that subtitle "Missionary of Truth" to something more appropriate. May I suggest something from here?

pacde said:
I think this qualifies as a personal attack.

Noted, and reported.
 

Bring Back Bucky

Registered User
May 19, 2004
9,997
3,071
Canadas Ocean Playground
BlackRedGold said:
With that argument, I'll admit I'm wrong. In ten years when you're ready for university you should consider law school with that type of logic and those debating skills.


Sorry, Sens Fans, that this poster has chosen to align his user name to identify himself as a fan of your teams. His juvenile attempts at insulting other posters are a not a black mark on Senators fans, just on himself and on his parents for not limiting his internet priviledges. Sorry for any undue stress his user name may cause a decent group of people like the polite hockey fans of a great team.

I will now sit and wait for the warning that I have let myself be goaded into by this insulting child..
 

se7en*

Guest
With a good team, Edmonton would clearly see its revenues rise significantly.

One more thing, I'm not done with you yet. With every home game sold-out, great merchadise sales, over 15,000 season ticket holders, 50+ suites sold out, not to mention revenue from numerous sources such as lotteries, equalization plans, and all the other things fans pay for - how is it possible for revenues to rise without raising ticket prices?

And I'll leave it to someone else to name some teams with worse drafting records than Edmontons, unless the point that blackredgold is foolishly trying get across is that Edmonton is the worst drafting team of all-time.
 

Bring Back Bucky

Registered User
May 19, 2004
9,997
3,071
Canadas Ocean Playground
Hootchie Cootchie said:
One more thing, I'm not done with you yet. With every home game sold-out, great merchadise sales, over 15,000 season ticket holders, 50+ suites sold out, not to mention revenue from numerous sources such as lotteries, equalization plans, and all the other things fans pay for - how is it possible for revenues to rise without raising ticket prices?

And I'll leave it to someone else to name some teams with worse drafting records than Edmontons, unless the point that blackredgold is foolishly trying get across is that Edmonton is the worst drafting team of all-time.


Ah, great, post something he won't understand.... Your own fault when he starts calling you a poopy-head in all caps. ;)
 

se7en*

Guest
He doesn't seem to realize (and if he doesn't know rather than pretending to be ignorant about it I honestly wouldn't be surprised) that Edmonton is not the only team to raise concerns about not being able to compete under the old CBA. 8 other owners, and I'll bet theres alot more, including Ottawa - said so. Melnyk himself confided to the media that Ottawa needs a new CBA before Nichols did. Did Ottawa compete under the old CBA? Looks to me like they made the playoffs often but never won the Cup. Sound familiar? Ah well - at least most Ottawa fans are grounded in reality.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
63,046
34,003
Parts Unknown
BlackRedGold said:
They got significant raises because they become unrestricted free agents, not because of any signings by the Rangers. Since the supply of unrestricted free agents is low due to the high age of UFA status, teams pay a premium when players hit the open market.

Once again, if the Rangers signing Holik has such a big effect on other players, why doesn't Iginla at least make as much as Holik?

Is Iginla the only example you can cite? Did you think perhaps he wasn't all about the money? Maybe he wanted to remain with the Flames and felt he was comfortable accepting the cash being offered by the Flames? For every Iginla example you can think of, I can give you 5 more that coincides with the Rangers spendings affecting the free agent market.
And once again you avoid the facts. Some of these players were on the verge of becoming unrestricted free agents (Norstrom and Miller for example). Klemm and Krupp got big pay days on the open market. And there was a club who set the standard for paying role players enormous amounts of money. The Rangers paid large sums of cash for unrestricted free agents... salaries of which no other teams would match. This set a higher asking price for players of the same caliber who wanted a similar pay day that matched those deals.
There is no way arguing around this point. You may attempt to do so and appear like a fool (which I must say you have done a great job at doing so already).
 

Hasbro

Family Friend
Sponsor
Apr 1, 2004
52,415
16,383
South Rectangle
If you're one of the posters who think the NHL has a money bin stashed in the Swiss alps, wouldn't that make the WHA's situation more precarious?

And if the Rag$ shopping sprees didn't drive up the market, why would Goodie Bob have players hold out, get pissed at players who take less (i.e. Ray Bourque)?
 

Phanuthier*

Guest
BlackRedGold said:
It doesn't affect other teams at all since the Rangers buy their players on the free market. What they sign someone for has no relevance on any other player.
I just had to quote this for people to read again.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
The Messenger said:
That was not possible .. Gretzky wanted to join the NHL .. he was only 17 and the amateur draft at the time had the age limit at 19 to be drafted ..

The WHA had not such rule and as a rival league had 2 years to rob the best young talent for itself ..

So Gretzky signing with the NHL without ever getting drafted was not an option and he entered the NHL through WHA expansion and merger as an Oiler ..


You are missing the point. Had the WHA survived then Gretzky would have been made huge offers from NHL teams. He would have been taken from the WHA teams or the the WHA teams would have gone broke trying to keep him. The idea they wouldn't have had him either come through the draft or via some specially developed clause boggles the mind.
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Hootchie Cootchie said:
Well you know what? That CBA is over and done with. Are you saying that their bad draft record from the mid-90s was the only reason why they claimed they couldn't compete?

Well how else are they supposed to get talent? If you can't get talent, you can't win under ANY system and in the NHL the best way to get talent is through the draft. That's how all the really good teams do it.

We had a good team. In 2001 they were poised to possibly become a powerhouse.

And you call me delusional? You were poised to be a powerhouse despite not having any of the best players in the league. And your best player just had his career year. And you expected to become a powerhouse?

Then Weight signed with St. Louis for $9,000,000 and Edmonton offered him $6,000,000 and set us back around 5 years. So tell me, this isn't conclusive evidence that maybe issues other than a poor draft record from a decade ago contributed to our problems?

Why couldn't the Oilers have drafted or developed a player to step in for Weight? They had ten years to do it. And its not like Weight was getting any better. St Louis wishes they could unload him now.

Please elaborate. They both went bankrupt yet it was 'clearly' not because of 'operational difficulties'?

It's been rehashed here hundreds of times. If you're not too stupid or too lazy to look it up, please do so.
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Hootchie Cootchie said:
One more thing, I'm not done with you yet. With every home game sold-out, great merchadise sales, over 15,000 season ticket holders, 50+ suites sold out, not to mention revenue from numerous sources such as lotteries, equalization plans, and all the other things fans pay for - how is it possible for revenues to rise without raising ticket prices?

If you've got a good team, you'll see more playoff dates.

If you've got a good team, more people will watch which will lead to higher ratings and more money.

If you've got a good team, you'll raise ticket prices because fans will pay more to watch a good team play, unless the team's fans have rocks in their head.
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Hootchie Cootchie said:
Melnyk himself confided to the media that Ottawa needs a new CBA before Nichols did.

Melnyk is a liar who will say what serves his purposes best.

Before he bought the team he claimed he was willing to spend big to get the Sens. When this drove out the other potential owners, he played hardball with the bankruptcy courts saying he would only buy the team under his conditions.

The SEC is investigating him because they don't believe him. Horse racing fans in the Barbados think he's a cheat who dopes his horses.

Did Ottawa compete under the old CBA?

Yes they did. President's Trophy. One goal away from the Cup finals. Last season's favourite to win the Cup by most media outlets.

Looks to me like they made the playoffs often but never won the Cup. Sound familiar? Ah well - at least most Ottawa fans are grounded in reality.

Do I think they didn't win the Cup because the CBA was unfair? No.

They didn't win because they didn't get the breaks. Not because the CBA wouldn't let them get the talent to win the Cup.
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Splatman Phanutier said:
I just had to quote this for people to read again.

Good.

There are some people in this thread who might need to read it again so that they can learn from it.
 

CantHaveTkachev

Legends
Nov 30, 2004
49,452
29,189
St. OILbert, AB
BlackRedGold said:
Melnyk is a liar who will say what serves his purposes best.

Before he bought the team he claimed he was willing to spend big to get the Sens. When this drove out the other potential owners, he played hardball with the bankruptcy courts saying he would only buy the team under his conditions.

The SEC is investigating him because they don't believe him. Horse racing fans in the Barbados think he's a cheat who dopes his horses.



Yes they did. President's Trophy. One goal away from the Cup finals. Last season's favourite to win the Cup by most media outlets.


Do I think they didn't win the Cup because the CBA was unfair? No.

They didn't win because they didn't get the breaks. Not because the CBA wouldn't let them get the talent to win the Cup.

you should be praising Melnyk, he saved your team from going bankrupt...

President's trophy...wow!!!! worst.trophy.ever.
The reason you can't win in the playoffs isn't because you can't get the breaks, it's because your the LAffs b!tches and Lalime couldn't stop a beachball....c'mon Sens fans, YOU SHOULD'VE DRAFTED A BETTER GOALIE!!!!! :banghead:
 

YellHockey*

Guest
Ziggy Stardust said:
Is Iginla the only example you can cite? Did you think perhaps he wasn't all about the money? Maybe he wanted to remain with the Flames and felt he was comfortable accepting the cash being offered by the Flames? For every Iginla example you can think of, I can give you 5 more that coincides with the Rangers spendings affecting the free agent market.

OK. You want more examples? Fine.

Why doesn't Joe Thornton make more then Holik? Or Marian Hossa? Or Brad Richards? Or Milan Hejduk? Or Zdeno Chara? Or any countless number of NHL players who are better then Holik?

And once again you avoid the facts. Some of these players were on the verge of becoming unrestricted free agents (Norstrom and Miller for example). Klemm and Krupp got big pay days on the open market. And there was a club who set the standard for paying role players enormous amounts of money. The Rangers paid large sums of cash for unrestricted free agents... salaries of which no other teams would match. This set a higher asking price for players of the same caliber who wanted a similar pay day that matched those deals.

I've got a great idea for a business plan based on your logic.

I'll come up with some product, it doesn't really matter what, but it'll cost about a $1 to make and I'll put up a 100 of that product on eBay. I'll pay some friend to buy the first one at $1000. That'll set the market rate for the product and I'll make $100,000 dollar less the $1000 it cost my friend to buy the product and the $100 it cost to make the product. I'll be rich!

There is no way arguing around this point. You may attempt to do so and appear like a fool (which I must say you have done a great job at doing so already).

The only one that appears to be the fool in this thread is the Edmonton school system.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->