WHA ramping things up - No Salary Cap

[me2]

Yup Growing up in Winnipeg .. The Jets with Bobby Hull was the home team and arguably the best of all the WHA teams ..

Peter Pocklington signed Wayne Gretzky to a personal services contract .. I wonder how the NHL would have turned out without the Great on ever being a part of it .. ??

Please explain how 4 of these Poor Pathetic teams then got themselves NHL franchises ???

I wonder how the WHA would have turned out after a rich NHL team made Gretzky an offer the WHA couldn't possible match.

 

[me2]

One flaw in your theory, Permanent replacements are completely illegal in every province in Canada. It also violates every Canadian Supreme Court decision and the Canadian Labor Code, on the subject. So translation no hockey in Canada under your scenario.

Probably not. There maybe temp replacements in some Canadian cities (sorry Van, possibly sorry Mtl). At the end of the day 24 teams of voting replacements vs 6 teams (max) of NHLPAers in Canada. 1 to 2 years without an NHL contract, 1 year contracted to the WHA, will they even have voting rights left?

 

[vanlady]

Probably not. There maybe temp replacements in some Canadian cities (sorry Van, possibly sorry Mtl). At the end of the day 24 teams of voting replacements vs 6 teams (max) of NHLPAers in Canada. 1 to 2 years without an NHL contract, 1 year contracted to the WHA, will they even have voting rights left?

Temporary replacements is one thing but permanent replacements are completely illegal anywhere in Canada. Oh and they can't be permanent on one side of the border and temp on the other. It is one way or the other.

 

[me2]

Temporary replacements is one thing but permanent replacements are completely illegal anywhere in Canada. Oh and they can't be permanent on one side of the border and temp on the other. It is one way or the other.

Then the 6 Canadian teams sit and wait for another year.

 

[YellHockey*]

No, Ottawa couldn't compete with those teams, they needed:

a) to suck horrifically enough to zing off that many 1-3 picks in the entry draft. Shame on the Oilers for being competitive every year instead of reeling off 48 point seasons.

So the Oilers couldn't have used Martin Havlat, Mike Fisher, Daniel Alfredsson, Pavol Demitra, Anton Volchenkov, Karel Rachunek or Sami Salo? All those guys that the Oilers had the opportunity to draft but didn't. The Senators have been good at developing players even after they started making the playoffs.

Or how about drafting Steve Kelly over local boys Shane Doan and Jarome Iginla in 95?

Would they not have been able to compete if they had some of those players added to their team?

b) to get bailed out of bankruptcy in order to not bounce paycheques

That was unrelated to team operations. The Senators payroll, until last season when "Come Clean" Eugene Melnyk took over, was never significantly higher then the Oilers.

 

[YellHockey*]

game is fine? you seem to know....please, I love to know why Buffalo and Ottawa needed new owners, or why Calgary lost 30 mil over 7 seasons....

Buffalo's went to prison. Ottawa's never put any capital into the club and let the debt spiral out of control. Calgary let jokers run their club.

sure Tampa Bay can compete, so can Ottawa with those players for now...but how long until they're UFA and they can't afford them anymore? it's just a matter of time before Philly and Detroit steal them away (like St.Louis and Dallas did when we traded Weight and Guerin cause we couldn't afford them)

You mean players like Daniel Alfredsson? Oh wait, he signed a five year contract instead of becoming an UFA. Tampa Bay won for crying out loud. So what if they break up the team (which they probably wouldn't have)? It's still better then Toronto's done since 1967!

That last sentence had me laughing :lol If they love the game so much, why not come back and play in the NHL?? That time I checked, the "greedy" owners OWN the NHL so they realized that the system was losing them billions...shame on them for trying to earn a dollar like the players!!

Because the owners have tried to bully them and hockey players don't give in to bullying. They fight back.

And yes shame on the owners. Because of their greed there was no NHL hockey this season.

 

[misterjaggers]

I'm sorry but a tournament in or near Toronto (which may or may not be televised) doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

 

[YellHockey*]

Actually you know nothing of the Edmonton market. Yes they could "compete" using the trap like other teams have...however the fans in Edmonton wouldn't put up with it and the ownership would lose out with fans turning on the team. This is a City that had many cups and got hooked on offense first and still play that way.

Goals for the final season of the NHL:

Edmonton: 221
Tampa Bay: 245
Ottawa: 262

If they want to play offense first maybe they should get some better offensive talent if they can get that badly outscored over the course of the season by two "trapping" teams.

Name calling the owners as "greedy liars" shows how limited your arguments are. It is no different than others calling the players "greedy" but the system proposed by the players is outdated and everyone but the players, Goodenow, and few PA supporters know it. Not to say the owners have the answer either but they are far closer to reality.

The players agreed to give up 24% of their salary and you still think of them as greedy?

The owners are suspected of things like tax evasion, SEC irregularities and horse doping and you believe their crap about needed a new system?

 

[Tawnos]

Only a few points here:

a) The players are not the one's forming this league. I saw at least 3 people on here villify the players for the WHA. This is only an oppurtunity being offered to them, not created by them.

b) I read one article about the WHA that basically made the point that the ultimate test will come when, for example, former Leaf favorites start suiting up for a Hamiltion WHA franschise while AHL players are suiting up for the Leafs.

c) "Owner/chairman Ricky Smith said he has 14 or 15 groups looking to buy a franchise. Hamilton, Ontario; Quebec City, Quebec; Las Vegas and Greensboro, N.C., are aboard, he said." Most intriguing in that is Las Vegas. That city is just dying for a pro-sports team. http://www.worldhockeyassociation.net/news/20050221000.php

d) I think that NHLPA members would probably rather play at a high level in any league rather than compete for the Stanley Cup at a lower level of hockey.

 

[misterjaggers]

...The owners are suspected of things like tax evasion, SEC irregularities and horse doping and you believe their crap about needed a new system?

And a crook named Allan Eagleston used to head up the NHLPA. Big deal...

 

[richardn]

b) I read one article about the WHA that basically made the point that the ultimate test will come when, for example, former Leaf favorites start suiting up for a Hamiltion WHA franschise while AHL players are suiting up for the Leafs.

Don't look for AHL ers on the Leafs the St. John's Maple Leafs roster has only 4 players who said they would cross the picket line. So it will ECHL players for the Leafs :lol . Lets see 45 minute drive to go see the real Leafs in Hamilton or watch a bunch of ECHL players at between NHL and AHL prices.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Buffalo's went to prison. Ottawa's never put any capital into the club and let the debt spiral out of control. Calgary let jokers run their club.



You mean players like Daniel Alfredsson? Oh wait, he signed a five year contract instead of becoming an UFA. Tampa Bay won for crying out loud. So what if they break up the team (which they probably wouldn't have)? It's still better then Toronto's done since 1967!



Because the owners have tried to bully them and hockey players don't give in to bullying. They fight back.

And yes shame on the owners. Because of their greed there was no NHL hockey this season.

there you go...those greedy owners are at it again!

Daniel Alfredsson? that argument hold no water...the guy has never had a 100-point season or a 40-goal season he''s a little more affordable....we'll see if they're able to keep Hossa, Havlat, Spezza and/or Chara together...

once again don't make me laugh, they're greed is the reason there is no hockey?
I'll make it simple so you understand...the old CBA didn't work, too many economic losses. They've decided to fix their own mistakes but the players don't want no part of it. They're greedy and think they'll get 8 mil for guys like Holik.Hence, no season!~

the players thought the owners would cave, and they lost...too bad when they realize that there's no pie left, they'll be lucky to make 2 mil!

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Goals for the final season of the NHL:

Edmonton: 221
Tampa Bay: 245
Ottawa: 262

If they want to play offense first maybe they should get some better offensive talent if they can get that badly outscored over the course of the season by two "trapping" teams.




The players agreed to give up 24% of their salary and you still think of them as greedy?

The owners are suspected of things like tax evasion, SEC irregularities and horse doping and you believe their crap about needed a new system?

Ever thought that the reason we didn't score as much is because we don't have a Hossa or St.Louis or Richards....we still play an up-tempo game, just don't have the horse to score alot of goals...

the players gave up 24 percent of their salaries? GOD BLESS EM!! they saved the game right there! how long before the Rangers figure out that they have all that extra money to spend on other crappy players!

Don't forget, if it weren't for these greedy owners, hundreds of NHLPA member would not be in the NHL

 

[vanlady]

And a crook named Allan Eagleston used to head up the NHLPA. Big deal...

You mean Bill Wirtz's best friend Alan Eagleson??? Or the owners favorite puppet Eagleson. Is this the guy you are talking about?

 

[YellHockey*]

And a crook named Allan Eagleston used to head up the NHLPA. Big deal...

And his co-conspirators were NHL owners.

The owners have lied for decades and they continue to spew lies that are only backed by propaganda like the "super audit".

 

[richardn]

I think if the WHA does get off the ground this fall and there is still a labour dispute the WHA will have a real shot to be successfull. They will have all the changes needed to the game to sell and market it better and the premeium players to make it a success. Think about they will be starting small with minimal amounts of teams. So the teams will be loaded with the best players in the world. The rest of the PA members go over to Europe. Leaving the NHL owners to go with replacement players from the AHL and ECHL. I think the WHA would be more successfull then an NHL with replacements. Even if the NHL labour dispute ends and the WHA starts to compete with it, they might still get some pissed off star players to stay in the WHA. I can see it now NHL owners selling their NHL franchises to join the WHA. Leaving the NHL left with nothing but the teams that didn't belong there in the first place.

 

[YellHockey*]

Ever thought that the reason we didn't score as much is because we don't have a Hossa or St.Louis or Richards....we still play an up-tempo game, just don't have the horse to score alot of goals...

And whose fault is that? Let me guess, its the CBA's fault that the Oilers can't draft worth a damn.

the players gave up 24 percent of their salaries? GOD BLESS EM!! they saved the game right there! how long before the Rangers figure out that they have all that extra money to spend on other crappy players!

Who cares how much the Rangers spend on crappy players? It doesn't help them any. So the season was cancelled so the Rangers can't spend money on crappy players anymore?

 

[WHARF1940]

there you go...those greedy owners are at it again!


once again don't make me laugh, they're greed is the reason there is no hockey?
I'll make it simple so you understand...the old CBA didn't work, too many economic losses. They've decided to fix their own mistakes but the players don't want no part of it. They're greedy and think they'll get 8 mil for guys like Holik.Hence, no season!~

the players thought the owners would cave, and they lost...too bad when they realize that there's no pie left, they'll be lucky to make 2 mil!

My friend, no one ever debated that the owners needeed a new system. BOTH sides' greed played into this, but the players gave the owners a lot, the problem is that the owners want to go for the jugular and get their fool proof plan in place all at once. 49 million cap, while high IMO, would have definitely helped a lot and with some other systemic changes, would have certainly reeled in spending. A short CBA would have afforded the owners an opportunity for more changes and tweaking if it wasn't working and the cap had in fact become a "magnet". Out clauses for both sides would have been a good idea as well.

 

[NYFAN]

And a crook named Allan Eagleston used to head up the NHLPA. Big deal...

Bad reference as he was in cahoots with ownership for alot of the shennanigans that went on! OOps I see this was already poste after reading the rest of the posts! Sorry

 

[me2]

I think if the WHA does get off the ground this fall and there is still a labour dispute the WHA will have a real shot to be successfull. They will have all the changes needed to the game to sell and market it better and the premeium players to make it a success. Think about they will be starting small with minimal amounts of teams. So the teams will be loaded with the best players in the world.

6 teams would be packed with quality

5-10 stars + 15 others per team with a payroll of $10m-25m.

$1-2m for guys of Sakic and Prongers quality.
$500K for guys that used to get $2m in the NHL.

Sure to have the NHL teams shivering in their boots.

The rest of the PA members go over to Europe. Leaving the NHL owners to go with replacement players from the AHL and ECHL. I think the WHA would be more successfull then an NHL with replacements. Even if the NHL labour dispute ends and the WHA starts to compete with it, they might still get some pissed off star players to stay in the WHA.

Worst case is the NHL just has to open back up by a short term acceptance the NHLPAs latest offer. This forces the WHA to pay more for its players than it can afford. The WHA goes broke, folds, and its owners are down millions of dollars. The NHL locks out the players again.

I can see it now NHL owners selling their NHL franchises to join the WHA. Leaving the NHL left with nothing but the teams that didn't belong there in the first place.

Leave the NHL with nothing but teams that didn't belong there to join a league full of teams that are at the same or lower financial level than the ones they left behind.

 

[se7en*]

And whose fault is that? Let me guess, its the CBA's fault that the Oilers can't draft worth a damn.

That's a very poor way of putting it into perspective. If you are so adamant that things are fine in Edmonton, can you provide proof that you had access into their books? Or did those crybabies (name-calling, how juvenile. Looks good on ya!) Nichols and Lowe come up to you and say 'I want you to know that we don't need cost certainty, our only purpose is to rob those gullible Oilers fans!' Which is it? Delusional, or did you meet our owners?

Nice little spin though, 'Missionary of Truth'!

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And whose fault is that? Let me guess, its the CBA's fault that the Oilers can't draft worth a damn.



Who cares how much the Rangers spend on crappy players? It doesn't help them any. So the season was cancelled so the Rangers can't spend money on crappy players anymore?

I admit, our drafting hasnt been good...but the Sens and TB sucked for many years so they got high draft picks. They're reaping the rewards. The great players we had (Weight, Guerin, Cujo, Carter), we couldn't keep cause we couldnt afford them.

I Care how much the Rangers pay their crappy players because they, along with about 7 other teams, are driving up salaries

 

[OilKiller]

I admit, our drafting hasnt been good...but the Sens and TB sucked for many years so they got high draft picks. They're reaping the rewards. The great players we had (Weight, Guerin, Cujo, Carter), we couldn't keep cause we couldnt afford them.

I Care how much the Rangers pay their crappy players because they, along with about 7 other teams, are driving up salaries

Why is it then my team (Flames) can afford to pay Iggy 7.5 M a year and the Oil can't afford anyone?? Last I checked, the markets in Calgary and Edmonton were close to the same.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Why is it then my team (Flames) can afford to pay Iggy 7.5 M a year and the Oil can't afford anyone?? Last I checked, the markets in Calgary and Edmonton were close to the same.

and how much did your team lose for 7 straight years? 30mil?

if you guys didn't have that mriacle run last year, you you would've lost money.

Fact is, EIG has been alot more responsible with their money these days.

What would Flames fans be saying if Calgary owners DIDN"t sign Iggy a few years ago? your team was going nowhere and Iggy was your shining star...you NEEDED to sign him...

 

[OilKiller]

and how much did your team lose for 7 straight years? 30mil?

if you guys didn't have that mriacle run last year, you you would've lost money.

Fact is, EIG has been alot more responsible with their money these days.

What would Flames fans be saying if Calgary owners DIDN"t sign Iggy a few years ago? your team was going nowhere and Iggy was your shining star...you NEEDED to sign him...

But the Oil DIDN'T need to sign anyone huh? Sorry. If you want a good team you either have to draft very well and be patient or trade well and pay the players what you need to pay them to keep them where they are at. The Flames lost a lot of good players as well, but the owners finally said, enough is enough and started to spend some money to try and build a winner. Sounds to me like the Oil owners just gave up on winning.