WHA - Challenge for the Stanley Cup?

Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
29,206
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Connecticut
Lots of these posts sound like things that were said about the Summit Series before it occurred.

Always felt like the top players that jumped to the WHA not only went for more money, but for easy money. Their level of play was a notch lower, hence everyone's level was lower. I'm not so sure a highly motivated championship WHA team with nothing to lose and everything to gain would have been embarrassed by the dynasty Canadiens. Not any more so than other high level NHL teams.

Saw a number of exhibition games where the Whalers handled NHL teams, and they were not the class of the WHA at that point. But the level of play was higher than normal because they had something to prove.
 

cam042686

Registered User
Sep 26, 2011
352
3
Hamilton, Ontario
Jets founder Ben Hatskin did have conversations with Clarence Campbell about receiving an expansion team back in 1970. The 7.2M price tag along with the requirement of a 16,000 arena made that impossible at the time.

The WHA/NHL in terms of quality players has been debated endlessly. Shortly after the Jets became the first club team to defeat the Soviet Red Army (a team mostly comprised of the same players who tied the Canadiens back on Dec.31, 1975), the Jets issued a challenge to the then Stanley Cup champion Habs.

Montreal declined and war of words ensued. This may have led to the nay vote by the Canadiens owner when the WHA first hoped at merging with the big show. A boycott of Molson products across Manitoba ensued and next merger vote was a success.

Could the Jets have competed with the dynasty Habs of the 70's? Offensively, the teams were fairly even with the Hull - Hedberg - Nilsson line one of best to ever play the game. Defense and goaltending would have been the Jets downfall. Robinson, Savard etc. were vastly superior to anyone the Jets had at the time.

Over a 7 game series....... Habs in 5.

Sorry to say, New England Whalers on December 27, 1976 became the first club team to defeat the Soviet Nationals, whipping them 5-2. A week or so later the Nordiques bombed them 6-1 and became the only North American pro team to drive Tretiak out of a game.

The following year in January 1978 Winnipeg beat the Soviet Nationals 5-3.

Craig Wallace
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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Sorry to say, New England Whalers on December 27, 1976 became the first club team to defeat the Soviet Nationals, whipping them 5-2. A week or so later the Nordiques bombed them 6-1 and became the only North American pro team to drive Tretiak out of a game.

How about the Junior Canadiens... was it 1970?
 

Pominville Knows

Registered User
Sep 28, 2012
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Down Under
Sorry to say, New England Whalers on December 27, 1976 became the first club team to defeat the Soviet Nationals, whipping them 5-2. A week or so later the Nordiques bombed them 6-1 and became the only North American pro team to drive Tretiak out of a game.

The following year in January 1978 Winnipeg beat the Soviet Nationals 5-3.

Craig Wallace

Is'nt the "Soviet Red Army" CSKA Moskow and not their national team?
 

Vintage hockey

Registered User
Dec 24, 2018
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4
I highly doubt the Jets could even compete offensively with the Habs at that time. We saw what Hedberg and Nilsson could do in the NHL in 1979 and while they were good players, the only other significant player the Jets had was a very old Bobby Hull. Kent Nilsson was very young or not around yet in Hedberg and the former Nilsson's last year in 1978. They had Sjoberg on D who was very good, but who else? Even their goaltender (Daley?) was not an NHL calibre goalie. The Habs would have hammered them in 4.
He’d berg and Nilsson both day the Jets were better than the Rangers that went to the cup final but conceded that they didn’t have the depth in D with the big 3

wha teams played various nhl teams in exhibition games and had an overall winning record the top teams would have been competive

The Jets in the 1970s with Hedberg, Hull and Nilsson were an nhl caliber team, Joe Daley was a very, very solid goalie who played all seven seasons of the WHA for the Jets, (He retired and has owned a sports card shop in Winnipeg ever since), Terrible Teddy Green, Thommie Bergmann and Perry Miller were keys on the blue line as was Lars-Eric Sjoberg. Willie Lindstrom, Kent Nilsson and Peter Sullivan, as well as Dan Labraatan and Norm Beaudin gave the team a strong group of forwards. Out of the seven year run of the WHA they won three Avco cups and lost in the finals twice.
In short they were loaded.
Could this club have competed with the Canadiens or Flyers? Of course not, they had a solid club that was probably as good as some lower end playoff teams, say the Atlanta Flames who always made it in and got knocked out in the first round.Problem is, their were half a dozen true NHLers, a half a dozen Europeans who could play and that left a half a dozen guys who never would make it in the nhl under any circumstance. It was not the front line talent that would have done them in, it was the secondary skill players. You can hide them when you are playing a bunch of retreads and has beens and never weres, when you are playing the best teams in the world, the NHL, the weaknesses would have been exposed.
I have studied the history of the WHA for quite some time, no team from the league was in their best year a cup contender.
Yet the Wha teams bets the nhl in exhibition

I highly doubt the Jets could even compete offensively with the Habs at that time. We saw what Hedberg and Nilsson could do in the NHL in 1979 and while they were good players, the only other significant player the Jets had was a very old Bobby Hull. Kent Nilsson was very young or not around yet in Hedberg and the former Nilsson's last year in 1978. They had Sjoberg on D who was very good, but who else? Even their goaltender (Daley?) was not an NHL calibre goalie. The Habs would have hammered them in 4.

The 77/78 Jets team was a very very good wha team and would have been a top 5 team in the nhl 1977–78 Winnipeg Jets season - Wikipedia
 
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Vanzig

Registered User
Aug 6, 2018
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Vancouver, B.C.
Even though when the NHL and WHA went head to head and WHA Lost only 1 of every 3 and as exciting as the JETS were their Defence could Never match MONTREAL, I mean Montreal had what 9/10/11 Hall of Famers on their team.
If the JETS or AEROS had a killer NHL Goalie and faced maybe the FLYERS their “Might” be a chance but the HABS were a force to reckoned with, I mean in 1979 4 of the 6 Defenceman
(THE BIG 4) are All in the HOF (Robinbson, Savard, Lapointe, Langway)!!!!

The NHL didn’t want egg on their face and have a Quebec/Winnipeg vs either “Montreal”/“Flyers” and we all know the 4 REFUGEE TEAMS when they came to the NHL (As Winnipeg GM said “We were Raped”) didn’t have a chance and the WHA team roster’s were Raided even though “EXPANSION” teams are suppose to get the TOP PICKS in the Draft (The WHA TEAMS got to Pick the LAST 4 PICKS IN 1st ROUND).

Still the WHA got some redemption with the Dynasty Oilers Winning a Cup in 5 Seasons from entering.

Here’s another thing, The NHL said the WHA wasn’t a PRO LEAGUE (They were a Bush League) so none of the players Point Totals would be added to their PRO/NHL Hockey record “YET” when it came time to give GRETZKY the “Rookie Of The Year” Trophy they said he wasn’t a Rookie because of his service in the WHA. I remember Gretz saying in his Book “It goes to show you how much the NHL was worrying about the WHA at the time”.
#99 got hyped and shoulda won the Rookie Of The Year.
Oh well, He did TIE for the League Lead and WIN the HART TROPHY (MVP) as a “cough/cough” Rookie AKA- 1st Year Player!!!

WHA had some great players and having 2 PRO HOCKEY LEAGUES hurt the game in the 1970’s talent wise, It was smart for the the NHL to merge and take the best players/4 teams and make it one solid League!! The talent got a lot better in the 1980’s and more Europeans were coming in too.
 

DowntownBooster

Registered User
Jun 21, 2011
3,202
2,414
Winnipeg
Even though when the NHL and WHA went head to head and WHA Lost only 1 of every 3 and as exciting as the JETS were their Defence could Never match MONTREAL, I mean Montreal had what 9/10/11 Hall of Famers on their team.
If the JETS or AEROS had a killer NHL Goalie and faced maybe the FLYERS their “Might” be a chance but the HABS were a force to reckoned with, I mean in 1979 4 of the 6 Defenceman
(THE BIG 4) are All in the HOF (Robinbson, Savard, Lapointe, Langway)!!!!

The NHL didn’t want egg on their face and have a Quebec/Winnipeg vs either “Montreal”/“Flyers” and we all know the 4 REFUGEE TEAMS when they came to the NHL (As Winnipeg GM said “We were Raped”) didn’t have a chance and the WHA team roster’s were Raided even though “EXPANSION” teams are suppose to get the TOP PICKS in the Draft (The WHA TEAMS got to Pick the LAST 4 PICKS IN 1st ROUND).

Still the WHA got some redemption with the Dynasty Oilers Winning a Cup in 5 Seasons from entering.

Here’s another thing, The NHL said the WHA wasn’t a PRO LEAGUE (They were a Bush League) so none of the players Point Totals would be added to their PRO/NHL Hockey record “YET” when it came time to give GRETZKY the “Rookie Of The Year” Trophy they said he wasn’t a Rookie because of his service in the WHA. I remember Gretz saying in his Book “It goes to show you how much the NHL was worrying about the WHA at the time”.
#99 got hyped and shoulda won the Rookie Of The Year.
Oh well, He did TIE for the League Lead and WIN the HART TROPHY (MVP) as a “cough/cough” Rookie AKA- 1st Year Player!!!

WHA had some great players and having 2 PRO HOCKEY LEAGUES hurt the game in the 1970’s talent wise, It was smart for the the NHL to merge and take the best players/4 teams and make it one solid League!! The talent got a lot better in the 1980’s and more Europeans were coming in too.

I would have to agree with you about Montreal's defense. They were definitely top notch for sure. I think it would have been great for the NHL to have had the WHA Jets in the league to provide another fast skating and entertaining team to complement the Canadiens. To see them play head to head would have been a real treat as they would have demonstrated how hockey should be played.

For us in Winnipeg it was bittersweet joining the NHL because of what happened to our team. On the one hand it was great to have the Winnipeg Jets in the 'big' league with teams like Montreal, Toronto, Boston, New York, etc. However, losing the nucleus of our team was devastating as the Jets were just a shell of our former team. Some people would mock us saying "these were the champions of the WHA? It couldn't have been a very good league". They gave no thought that it was no longer the same team.

On top of that, Glen Sather of the Oilers had studied and patterned his team after the WHA Jets and built that juggernaut Edmonton team of the 1980's. Yet here we were in Winnipeg, the team Sather acquired his template from for the Oilers, watching as our GM John Ferguson used our first pick in the draft to get Jimmy Mann. The Oilers had become what the Jets were and the Jets became......well, we all know how things went for a period of time.

:jets
 
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VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,798
754
Helsinki, Finland
He’d berg and Nilsson both day the Jets were better than the Rangers that went to the cup final but conceded that they didn’t have the depth in D with the big 3

wha teams played various nhl teams in exhibition games and had an overall winning record the top teams would have been competive


Yet the Wha teams bets the nhl in exhibition

Yes, that sounds impressive if taken at face value. But when you look more closely, you'll see that in the exhibition games it was mostly the top WHA teams facing mediocre/weak NHL teams. When they played against a Bruins or a Flyers, they always lost (IIRC). Also, the Canadiens did not take part.

The 77/78 Jets team was a very very good wha team and would have been a top 5 team in the nhl 1977–78 Winnipeg Jets season - Wikipedia

Well, the NHL was a very uneven league at that point, so possibly. But I think that the Canadiens, the Bruins, the Flyers, the Islanders and the Sabres would have been favourites to beat them in a Playoff series.

And yet they were god enough to beat the Soviet National team

Once in, what, 6 games that the Jets played against USSR? It's not a devastating record really. If Montreal had played 6 games against the Soviet National Team, how many would they have won? And especially if Sidelnikov was the starting goalie for USSR (like in the game that the Jets won).
 

DowntownBooster

Registered User
Jun 21, 2011
3,202
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Winnipeg
Yes, that sounds impressive if taken at face value. But when you look more closely, you'll see that in the exhibition games it was mostly the top WHA teams facing mediocre/weak NHL teams. When they played against a Bruins or a Flyers, they always lost (IIRC). Also, the Canadiens did not take part.

The following list is the final standings (alphabetically) of the NHL teams involved in inter-league exhibition games with the WHA. Note: the results include wins, losses and ties:

Atlanta..................4 - 4 - 0
Boston....................1 - 0 - 0
California................1 - 1 - 0
Chicago..................0 - 1 - 2
Cleveland..............1 - 0 - 0
Colorado................1 - 2 - 0
Detroit......................1 - 3 - 1
Minnesota............4 - 3 - 1
NY Islanders........0 - 1 - 0
NY Rangers.........2 - 2 - 3
Philadelphia.......1 - 0 - 0
Pittsburgh...........6 - 5 - 0
St. Louis..................3 - 7 - 1
Toronto...................1 - 0 - 0
Vancouver..............1 - 1 - 0
Washington........3 - 5 - 0

I wouldn't say the bulk of the games were against mediocre or weak NHL teams but you are correct in stating that Boston and Philadelphia did not lose (although each of them did play only one game) and Montreal was not involved.


Well, the NHL was a very uneven league at that point, so possibly. But I think that the Canadiens, the Bruins, the Flyers, the Islanders and the Sabres would have been favourites to beat them in a Playoff series.

I think you would be right about the Canadiens and Islanders but I think by the mid to late 70s, the Bruins and Flyers were not quite as dominant as they were in the early to mid 70s and the Sabres had faded somewhat after their Stanley Cup final appearance in 1975.


Once in, what, 6 games that the Jets played against USSR? It's not a devastating record really. If Montreal had played 6 games against the Soviet National Team, how many would they have won? And especially if Sidelnikov was the starting goalie for USSR (like in the game that the Jets won).

The Jets did indeed play the Soviet national team 6 times with one win to show for it. However, with the exception of one lopsided 5-1 loss, the other 5 games were close matches with 4 of the games being played on the larger international ice surface which the Soviets regularly played on. Montreal did play the Red Army team to a 3-3 tie but we can only speculate how they would have done against the Soviet national team over 6 games with 4 of them on an international sized ice surface.

:jets
 

Vintage hockey

Registered User
Dec 24, 2018
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If you watch to the end you hear what Wayne thought of the top WHA teams he felt that the nhl was scared of what the WHA could do of course the NHL had everything to lose and nothing really to gain except the advancement of hockey in general
 

Marotte Marauder

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
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The WHA should have placed Bobby Hull right in Chicago with the Cougars and gotten the suburban rink built. Had they done that, there would have been no more Blackhawks, that's how intense the hatred for Wirtz was at the time.

I went to high school with one of the Kaiser boys whose family owned the Cougars and a TV station in Chicago. They would have crushed the Hawks.
 

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