News Article: WFP: Finding the right Formula for Kane

[sully1410]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/jets-version-of-breaking-bad-225757861.html

I thought it was an interesting read. Especially with Kaner openly questioning Noel's line combos

Click to read more...

 

[Gm0ney]

and sometimes when things are going poorly, they stay the same. You'd think maybe we could change some things up (then).

*COUGH* Jokinen *COUGH*

 

[koth]

This was a very interesting article, particularly the responses Kane gave. I makes me wonder how much support Noel has in the locker room.

I like Noel but I really don't understand his line combinations sometimes. Especially putting Jokinen and Kane together for pretty much the entire pre-season when he could have been playing Scheifele with Kane to see how their chemistry would be over more than a single game.

I completely understand Kane's frustration over the matter and it makes me wonder how much time Noel has left with the team. I'm not calling for him to be fired, but it makes me apprehensive.

 

[Rook37]

"I'm with them today and who knows how we're going to start on the game. I don't really know what's going on in terms of the lines. All I can control is whoever I'm playing with, try to do my best and make things work.

"I don't know. We'll see what happens. I'm not the coach. He has to make those decisions and come to those conclusions."

Kane was asked if coach Claude Noel asks him about that. "I mean, no, not really. It's up to him. Like I said, I'm not the coach and he makes the decisions and he has his own thoughts."

"Yeah, it's weird. Sometimes you have a couple of games with a line and suddenly things switch and you don't know why. Not even an injury. Sometimes it just switches. There's nothing you can do about it. And sometimes when things are going poorly, they stay the same. You'd think maybe we could change some things up (then). Hopefully we can get off to a good start, whoever I'm playing with and kind of build from there."

Whoever I'm playing with? That sounds purposely generic, like Kane has maybe been burned a few times by hoping too hard and he now just wants to detach himself until there's more reason to get excited.

I know Kane tends to be more outspoken than the avg hockey player but still, I have to agree with koth. This article really doesn't sound good.

I just hope KSS gets off to a good start this season. It sounds like Kane's starting to lack faith in Noel, at least as far as line combinations are concerned and we all know he's not the only one.

and on a lighter note - damn Tim Campbell, dat stache.

 

[Whileee]

I can understand Noel's interest in trying Jokinen with Kane. Even though Jokinen was very bad last year, that was a general feature no matter who he played with. I might quibble and say that Jokinen's style just does not mesh with Kane's, since they are both similar (i.e. not puck distributors, and not great passers). However, I can see the rationale in seeing if Jokinen has regained his form from 2-3 years ago, with the hope that he could be a strong 2nd line C. Obviously, his training camp hasn't shown Noel and the Jets' brass that he is likely to be the best choice for Kane.

As I have noted in another thread, I think it is very important for the Jets to find a good and stable line for Kane to foster his further development as a dominant scoring winger in the NHL. I think he's ready to take that step, and would be hampered if he had to over-compensate for the offensive ineptitude of his centre. I think that he will help Scheifele more than Scheifele will help him, but driving the play forward and forcing Scheifele to make quick decisions with the puck. I think the match will be good for the development of both young forwards.

 

[buggs]

As I have noted in another thread, I think it is very important for the Jets to find a good and stable line for Kane to foster his further development as a dominant scoring winger in the NHL. I think he's ready to take that step, and would be hampered if he had to over-compensate for the offensive ineptitude of his centre. I think that he will help Scheifele more than Scheifele will help him, but driving the play forward and forcing Scheifele to make quick decisions with the puck. I think the match will be good for the development of both young forwards.

Couldn't agree more. I think the only issue we may see is that there will be some developmental bumps along the way and those will have to be tolerated, both by the fans and the coaching staff. That said, I like Kane's defense and effort when he's motivated, so if he can instill that even more so in Scheifele that could be a huge positive. Seems odd to have mentorship coming from a 21 year old, but I think it can if Kane is happy with his linemates.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

So glad that Kane and Scheifele are finally playing together. It's the best thing for Scheifele's development to play top six minutes. Plus Jokinen had decent chemistry with Frolik.

However, I'm still upset that the Wright experiment hasn't ended. We need better than him as our 3LW. I wish we had signed Raymond when we had the chance.

 

[Jets]

So glad that Kane and Scheifele are finally playing together. It's the best thing for Scheifele's development to play top six minutes. Plus Jokinen had decent chemistry with Frolik.

However, I'm still upset that the Wright experiment hasn't ended. We need better than him as our 3LW. I wish we had signed Raymond when we had the chance.

There's a defensively responsible pass first veteran lw on the open market right now. Would probably come cheap too. Vinny prospal. Question is is he retired or looking to play because he is or was supposed to have an in with Columbus

 

[broinwhyteridge]

Stop expecting spontaneous combustion - give it some time.

 

[koth]

Going back to my confusion about putting Jokinen with Kane for the entire pre-season, something I thought about was this:

In the first pre-season game Kane was playing with Scheifele and Setoguchi, and the line looked pretty good. Since Noel knew this line would work, he decides to give Jokinen a chance to redeem himself from last season and puts him with Kane again for the rest of the pre-season. Seeing that Jokinen still isn't working well with Kane, he goes back to the line of Kane, Scheifele, and Setoguchi to start the regular season.

This is all purely speculative, but it seems to make sense.

 

[surixon]

Going back to my confusion about putting Jokinen with Kane for the entire pre-season, something I thought about was this:

In the first pre-season game Kane was playing with Scheifele and Setoguchi, and the line looked pretty good. Since Noel knew this line would work, he decides to give Jokinen a chance to redeem himself from last season and puts him with Kane again for the rest of the pre-season. Seeing that Jokinen still isn't working well with Kane, he goes back to the line of Kane, Scheifele, and Setoguchi to start the regular season.

This is all purely speculative, but it seems to make sense.

I have a somewhat different take. My take is that Noel fully intended to go with Jokinen from the start but wanted to give Scheifele some incentive at the beginning of camp by playing him with two skilled players. He likely did it to hammer home what following his directive could eventually lead to for Mark.

The problem was two-found though: One Scheifele and the line likely performed better than what Noel expected; Two Olli and Kane were so bad together that Noel actually openly questioned the chemistry between them and likely came to the conclusion that playing them together was a bad idea.

I am happy to see the KSS line reunited but I think its a purely reactionary move by Noel. I think Noel really wanted Mark to break in slowly but Olli's play likely left him little choice in the matter. Had this been the plan from the start we likely would have seen them line up more together as a one game sample size as good as it was isn't much to go on.

 

[koth]

^^ That's possible too.

 

[garret9]

Let me fix the title:

Finding the "Wright" Formula for Kane...

= moar Wright

 

[AWSAA]

"Yeah, it's weird. Sometimes you have a couple of games with a line and suddenly things switch and you don't know why. Not even an injury. Sometimes it just switches. There's nothing you can do about it. And sometimes when things are going poorly, they stay the same."

Sounds like he's referring to the Burmi/Miettinen switch last season.

 

[BizZombie]

Let me fix the title:

Finding the "Wright" Formula for Kane...

= moar Wright

Decisions, decisions...

Moar Wright or Moar Cowbell...

...go with the Cowbell.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Decisions, decisions...

Moar Wright or Moar Cowbell...

...go with the Cowbell.

At worst, it can't score - but at least it's a cowbell! Might give the PK duties to Wright though.

 

[BizZombie]

At worst, it can't score - but at least it's a cowbell! Might give the PK duties to Wright though.

More Cowbell

 

[ihadtochangethename]

Why say all that, and why now Kaner? I guess everyone is preoccupied with opening night, but i dont like this calling out of the coach from Kane. This is when you want to see maturity from a player-in particular a memember of the core-and one of the what two, faces of your franchise. Talk about concerning, but also somewhat inappropriate. If you're clicking with Sceiffs and Seto during the season and suddenly Noel breaks up the line then fine, speak your piece, but coming off wearing an A at camp, and having your GM have the confidence in you to say that you're 'poised to take the next step', during a conference about his extension, and to repay it with this. Its like he cant help but want to be the center of attention. Calling out your coach at the beginning of the season when all is as it usually is with line changes-to me-is like kicking someone when they are down with all the hype and lets face it expectation of Noel being fired by Christmas. I expected better from Evander.

 

[Guerzy]

I have a somewhat different take. My take is that Noel fully intended to go with Jokinen from the start but wanted to give Scheifele some incentive at the beginning of camp by playing him with two skilled players. He likely did it to hammer home what following his directive could eventually lead to for Mark.

The problem was two-found though: One Scheifele and the line likely performed better than what Noel expected; Two Olli and Kane were so bad together that Noel actually openly questioned the chemistry between them and likely came to the conclusion that playing them together was a bad idea.

I am happy to see the KSS line reunited but I think its a purely reactionary move by Noel. I think Noel really wanted Mark to break in slowly but Olli's play likely left him little choice in the matter. Had this been the plan from the start we likely would have seen them line up more together as a one game sample size as good as it was isn't much to go on.

Well said.

As much as I want Scheifele to be up there with Kane and Setoguchi for obvious reasons, I was also a believer headed into this year that there was a good chance we see Olli rebound. Now, I'm just not sure. It appears Olli simply doesn't "fit" this teams top 6 scoring unit, so while he may not put up 45-50 points in that top 6 role, he could still find his comfort zone on the 3rd line as a veteran who can provide some offense, which we will surely need.

To me, it's clear that in this situation Claude Noel gave Olli the opportunity and respect (of a veteran and leader on the team and in the game in general) in the preseason for him to either sink or swim while the games didn't result in points at the end of the night. Noel gave him the ice in the preseason to see where Olli was at and what he may do with the ice time. Noel was given 2 options for the no. 2 centre spot by Chevy as GM, Jokinen or Scheifele, so he gave his veteran the opportunity to start. At the end of the day, Olli didn't seize the opportunity, therefore Olli will now start the season in a lower role. He could still very well earn it back at points throughout the season as I doubt Scheifele keeps it all year, but, you never know what the kid may do. Looking at the big picture here, Noel doesn't just have to draw up lines, he has to fully manage these players as people and the moral that goes with it, he's also managing the entire room and it's accountability. What can Olli say or think now? it's on Olli for not earning the spot. As a coach, in my opinion, Noel did his job with Olli and Olli didn't repay the coach, therefore, Olli will start 3rd fiddle while a young and promising up and coming prospect gets the green light in a big role in which he is destined for at some point as an NHL'er and hopefully a key cog to this Jets organization. Sometimes you just gotta let these things play out, and right now we may just be seeing this play itself out.

 

[Blackie Dammit]

The part of this that disturbs me is that the players have no idea what is going on one day before opening game. Hell they have no idea at any time. No communication at all from coach to players. As a player, how hard must it be to prepare for a game like this? And why is the lineup such a secret? It seems like such strange behavior. Do other NHL coaches operate like this?

I have no problem with Kane speaking his mind.

 

[ps241]

Why say all that, and why now Kaner? I guess everyone is preoccupied with opening night, but i dont like this calling out of the coach from Kane. This is when you want to see maturity from a player-in particular a memember of the core-and one of the what two, faces of your franchise. Talk about concerning, but also somewhat inappropriate. If you're clicking with Sceiffs and Seto during the season and suddenly Noel breaks up the line then fine, speak your piece, but coming off wearing an A at camp, and having your GM have the confidence in you to say that you're 'poised to take the next step', during a conference about his extension, and to repay it with this. Its like he cant help but want to be the center of attention. Calling out your coach at the beginning of the season when all is as it usually is with line changes-to me-is like kicking someone when they are down with all the hype and lets face it expectation of Noel being fired by Christmas. I expected better from Evander.

I can be rough on Evander but......I didn't see it this way......I felt the guy writing the article was really pressing allot and Kane did a good enough job giving the stock answers and trying to deflect with the " I just do my best with where they put me". some of the comments might being getting taken a bit out of context. It Felt to me like the journalist was on a fishing expedition and kept reloading until Kane buckled a bit.

 

[ps241]

Well said.

As much as I want Scheifele to be up there with Kane and Setoguchi for obvious reasons, I was also a believer headed into this year that there was a good chance we see Olli rebound. Now, I'm just not sure. It appears Olli simply doesn't "fit" this teams top 6 scoring unit, so while he may not put up 45-50 points in that top 6 role, he could still find his comfort zone on the 3rd line as a veteran who can provide some offense, which we will surely need.

To me, it's clear that in this situation Claude Noel gave Olli the opportunity and respect (of a veteran and leader on the team and in the game in general) in the preseason for him to either sink or swim while the games didn't result in points at the end of the night. Noel gave him the ice in the preseason to see where Olli was at and what he may do with the ice time. At the end of the day, Olli didn't seize the opportunity, therefore Olli will now start the season in a lower role. He could still very well earn it back at points throughout the season as I doubt Scheifele keeps it all year, but, you never know what the kid may do. Looking at the big picture here, Noel doesn't just have to draw up lines, he has to fully manage these players as people and the moral that goes with it, he's also managing the entire room and it's accountability. What can Olli say or think now? it's on Olli for not earning the spot. As a coach, in my opinion, Noel did his job with Olli and Olli didn't repay the coach, therefore, Olli will start 3rd fiddle while a young and promising up and coming prospect gets the green light in a big role in which he is destined for at some point as an NHL'er and hopeful key cog to this Jets organization. Sometimes you just gotta let these things play out, and right now we may just be seeing this play itself out.

Yea in a round about way it could actually be better for Olli. lets say at some point they take Tango and Frolik and centre them Olli....there is a chance this combination might actually work better for Jokinen than plying with Kane and Seto?

The one thing we know about Claude is he isn't afraid to shuffle lines so Olli just needs to work hard and bide his time.

 

[angrymnky]

The part of this that disturbs me is that the players have no idea what is going on one day before opening game. Hell they have no idea at any time. No communication at all from coach to players.

I keep wondering about the communication from the coach whenever stuff likes this pops up. I don't like reading that players don't know why some players are benched and why some are playing and when they are asked about talking to the coach about something they seem to indicate that that didn't really happen. Is this a little odd or typical of some coaching styles? Is Noel trying to master telepathy to get a step up on other teams?

 

[KCjetsfan]

I like Kane's comments. I'm glad that he sounds frustrated with what he's had in terms of linemates for the better part of last year and this pre-season. I think if Scheifele can keep up, we may see a true breakout year.
I'll readily admit, as someone who questions Noel's decision making, I'm probably reading more into this than I should, but it does feed the narrative I already believe - even the players scratch their heads watching some of his personnel moves. And I absolutely have no issue with any comments from players that bring this up.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

I keep wondering about the communication from the coach whenever stuff likes this pops up. I don't like reading that players don't know why some players are benched and why some are playing and when they are asked about talking to the coach about something they seem to indicate that that didn't really happen. Is this a little odd or typical of some coaching styles? Is Noel trying to master telepathy to get a step up on other teams?

this is pretty much standard operating procedure for NHL coaches - from Q to Hitchcock to Babcock to AV

I remember Datsyuk not understanding why Abdelkader was playing on the top line, but as a pro you just shake your head and do your best and hope the coach isn't participating in prop bets