We're at the 1/4 mark...

MISC*

Guest
Misc, what blue chippers have we had under Gillis' tenure? We have one in Kassian as he's the result of Hodgson. We have Schroeder who does get injured, but he's a good player. KCONN got moved for Roy. Jensen is a longer term project which was known at the draft. Corrado is going to play for us soon. Our first five picks in the draft this year are all really promising. Gaunce has an extremely high hockey IQ. He'll always be a right place right time player at any level. He'll be an NHL player some day, but it's up to debate what his role will be. Also, we did sign Tanev so he should count for something lol.

Do you feel comfortable having our prospects develop with the current staff?

Do you have confidence in them to help these players to there highest potential?

If your answer is 'no', then I understand.

If your answer is 'yes', please educate me.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
29,640
24,984
Do you feel comfortable having our prospects develop with the current staff?

Do you have confidence in them to help these players to there highest potential?

If your answer is 'no', then I understand.

If your answer is 'yes', please educate me.

Well, if you look at the few late round success stories that we had under Burke and Nonis, they did take a while to develop. (see bieksa/hansen) Kesler took a while as well, but he's not a late round guy. Burrows was a hidden ECHLer.

It took them 4-5 years to develop, and they were the only two that really did have some success, so I don't get why you're praising the old staff so much.

We've found Corrado who's continuing to develop. We developed Tanev well. Eddie lack is an okay guy as well. In 2010, we only had picks from rounds 4-7... but I do like McNally. Our other college hockey prospects are developing fine but with late round picks, it takes 4-6 years to see if they have a chance in the NHL. I think he's done well drafting the last three drafts. 2010 he didn't have anything to work with really in terms of picks. Outside of the first round, the first two years weren't good, so I'll give you that.

edit: short answer - it's going to be a while to see if some of our guys turn out the way we hope they can. I do have faith but like I said, it's not that easy to find the gems you'd like. we found like 2 over a long time in the draft, as well as some other guys outside of it.
 
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MISC*

Guest
Well, if you look at the few late round success stories that we had under Burke and Nonis, they did take a while to develop. (see bieksa/hansen) Kesler took a while as well, but he's not a late round guy. Burrows was a hidden ECHLer.

It took them 4-5 years to develop, and they were the only two that really did have some success, so I don't get why you're praising the old staff so much.

We've found Corrado who's continuing to develop. We developed Tanev well. Eddie lack is an okay guy as well. In 2010, we only had picks from rounds 4-7... but I do like McNally. Our other college hockey prospects are developing fine but with late round picks, it takes 4-6 years to see if they have a chance in the NHL. I think he's done well drafting the last three drafts. 2010 he didn't have anything to work with really in terms of picks. Outside of the first round, the first two years weren't good, so I'll give you that.

edit: short answer - it's going to be a while to see if some of our guys turn out the way we hope they can. I do have faith but like I said, it's not that easy to find the gems you'd like. we found like 2 over a long time in the draft, as well as some other guys outside of it.

So your answer is `yes`..
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
29,640
24,984
So your answer is `yes`..

Well if you want to be smug, and not really answer when I tried to fulfill your request of 'educating you,' then yes. -- Not really. It's plausible.

Do you not realize like 10% of drafted players from rounds 4-7 actually make it to the nhl and have somewhat careers? Even in the first round, it's only like a 2/3 chance. The only question mark we have out of our first round picks is Jensen, but he was pegged as a long term project.

10%!!! we only got two - hansen and Bieksa - and if you want to count Mike brown? Go ahead lmao! We had 45 or 46 picks throughout that Burke tenure that were from the rounds of 4-7 or later. If you include brown, that's like 6%!!!! If you exclude him, which I would do, then it's like 3-4%, so I don't get why you were praising burke/nonis.

If Gillis can hit the mark on between 8-12% of our late round picks, it shouldn't be considered 'bad drafting' lol
 

Reverend Mayhem

Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Feb 15, 2009
28,096
5,224
Port Coquitlam, BC
I see a lot of accusations in this thread, yet the biggest fact is that Gillis has drafted zero NHL talent, like Cody Hodgson, Yann Sauve, Jordan Schroeder, Nicklas Jensen, or Frankie Corrado.

Yes, I long for the days of Patrick White and Kyle Beach. Does that make me special? I want me back some real NHL talent, like Brad Isbister and PP specialist Byron Ritchie, who needs these scrubs like Mike Santarello or Brad Richards'son?
 

MISC*

Guest
Well if you want to be smug, and not really answer when I tried to fulfill your request of 'educating you,' then yes. -- Not really. It's plausible.

Do you not realize like 10% of drafted players from rounds 4-7 actually make it to the nhl and have somewhat careers? Even in the first round, it's only like a 2/3 chance. The only question mark we have out of our first round picks is Jensen, but he was pegged as a long term project.

10%!!! we only got two - hansen and Bieksa - and if you want to count Mike brown? Go ahead lmao! We had 45 or 46 picks throughout that Burke tenure that were from the rounds of 4-7 or later. If you include brown, that's like 6%!!!! If you exclude him, which I would do, then it's like 3-4%, so I don't get why you were praising burke/nonis.

If Gillis can hit the mark on between 8-12% of our late round picks, it shouldn't be considered 'bad drafting' lol

Pretty good explanation. Thank you.
 

Buffalo In A Carwash

Registered User?
Apr 10, 2012
192
0
Quesnel
Oh, lordy lordy! I've seen the light!

MISC has descended from the sky in a brilliant brown light to show us the truth.



Anyone know of a hockey club willing to take a fan in? Do they have donuts?
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
29,640
24,984
Tired of David Booth's play?

Tired of losing trade after trade?

Tired of reclamation projects?

Tired of scoring one goal a game?

Tired of watching this team go from first to last in PP%?

Tired of watching our core age and slow down?

Tired of watching our GM do nothing about it?

Now to address the rest of this..

Booth played well at the start, then the injuries hit him. I believe he had like 30 points in 55 games or so his first season here... good second line numbers! Even still, we barely paid anything for him.

He's been hit and miss with his trades, but I won't even argue with you. It's not his strong suit. (this is where Burke should get any credit. He's a good trader, not a good drafter like you were going on about.)

I like reclamation projects, just not if we're relying on them. It's a good gamble, and he's done well with these..

He's tried addressing our top six scoring every year really lol. Demitra, Sundin, Booth, Higgins (although he was a reclamation project), Bernier, Roy. Idk I mean, he hasn't got the big fishes like Nash, Gaborik, Kessel etc but he's tried.

We have too many streaky players. The only consistent guys we have are the sedins and they do get shut down by the top teams in our division, and have been for the last few years. This is due to the streaky play of our depth scoring. I agree that our goal scoring is a problem. I don't know what we can do to solve it without giving up a blue chip prospect or another high pick.

at this point I think no one can fix our powerplay. i don't know what happened lol.

I haven't seen the signs of slowing down yet. Yeah, the players are past their career years but they haven't started slowing down yet.

What else can he do, be an armchair gm and propose some things.
 

JuniorNelson

Registered User
Jan 21, 2010
8,631
320
E.Vancouver
Gillis is almost out of options. He can't attract free agents. He can't win a trade. He hasn't drafted very well.

The real issues I think are the monumentally wrong headed decisions (like trading Schneider)! It doesn't matter if the draft pick was used to get an awesome player, it shouldn't have happened. It shows they are stupid. Seriously. I don't wonder why nobody wants to sign here, because I know why. It's the steady stream of WTF? this team produces.

Luongo is the slowest I have ever seen him. He is not athletic enough, at this time. I hope he has an undisclosed minor injury he wants to play through. If he is in good health, I think something else is wrong. Maybe he just doesn't give a damn? Regardless, Tortorella must be decisive. Lack should be getting starts, like two years ago with Schneider.

Twins were utterly gassed last week. They are slow and are absorbing a lot more hits this season. Kesler took some of the heat off them, but couldn't mitigate the exhaustion of massive minutes. The rational approach would be to develop a powerful second line to ease the Sedins importance. Booth is a very important part of this attempt with Kesler and Hansen to create that. It looks like this is a lot to ask of the current Booth. Too much, really.

Booth and Alberts appear to be fails. Deal with it. Send them to Utica and call up someone useful to Tortorella. If that fails try it again with different guys until the non useful guys are off the roster. Then, maybe Tortorella won't ride the Sedins into the ground.

The powerplay has to be fixed or all the other stuff is moot. This is where the effort to improve should be concentrated. I don't think a trade is warranted because every other option has not been explored. Others have noted some guys haven't been tried, but perhaps they've played themselves out of contention in practices? If not, then they should give it a shot. Otherwise Gillis will have to be let loose on the trade market and who knows what he'll lose this time?

In the event of Gillis following form and either doing nothing or bungling it, he should be removed. If this is Torts' team, let him run it.
 

serge2k

Registered User
Sep 16, 2006
15,116
3
Misc, what blue chippers have we had under Gillis' tenure? We have one in Kassian as he's the result of Hodgson. We have Schroeder who does get injured, but he's a good player. KCONN got moved for Roy. Jensen is a longer term project which was known at the draft. Corrado is going to play for us soon. Our first five picks in the draft this year are all really promising. Gaunce has an extremely high hockey IQ. He'll always be a right place right time player at any level. He'll be an NHL player some day, but it's up to debate what his role will be. Also, we did sign Tanev so he should count for something lol.
Well he had Hodgson. Had.

And was Jensen longer term at the draft or is that just the reasoning now they he has 2 goals 6 points in his first 30 AHL games?
 

serge2k

Registered User
Sep 16, 2006
15,116
3
Gillis is almost out of options. He can't attract free agents. He can't win a trade. He hasn't drafted very well.

The real issues I think are the monumentally wrong headed decisions (like trading Schneider)! It doesn't matter if the draft pick was used to get an awesome player, it shouldn't have happened. It shows they are stupid. Seriously. I don't wonder why nobody wants to sign here, because I know why. It's the steady stream of WTF? this team produces.

Luongo is the slowest I have ever seen him. He is not athletic enough, at this time. I hope he has an undisclosed minor injury he wants to play through. If he is in good health, I think something else is wrong. Maybe he just doesn't give a damn? Regardless, Tortorella must be decisive. Lack should be getting starts, like two years ago with Schneider.

Twins were utterly gassed last week. They are slow and are absorbing a lot more hits this season. Kesler took some of the heat off them, but couldn't mitigate the exhaustion of massive minutes. The rational approach would be to develop a powerful second line to ease the Sedins importance. Booth is a very important part of this attempt with Kesler and Hansen to create that. It looks like this is a lot to ask of the current Booth. Too much, really.

Booth and Alberts appear to be fails. Deal with it. Send them to Utica and call up someone useful to Tortorella. If that fails try it again with different guys until the non useful guys are off the roster. Then, maybe Tortorella won't ride the Sedins into the ground.

The powerplay has to be fixed or all the other stuff is moot. This is where the effort to improve should be concentrated. I don't think a trade is warranted because every other option has not been explored. Others have noted some guys haven't been tried, but perhaps they've played themselves out of contention in practices? If not, then they should give it a shot. Otherwise Gillis will have to be let loose on the trade market and who knows what he'll lose this time?

In the event of Gillis following form and either doing nothing or bungling it, he should be removed. If this is Torts' team, let him run it.
If they can't hack it then trade them. Of course I don't think this is the case at all, they are by far the best players on the team and should stay.

So many excuses for the complete offensive ineptitude. So much blame on Luongo.
 

Saturated Fats

This is water
Jan 24, 2007
4,299
769
Vancouver/Edinburgh
If they can't hack it then trade them. Of course I don't think this is the case at all, they are by far the best players on the team and should stay.

So many excuses for the complete offensive ineptitude. So much blame on Luongo.
I agree. To blame Luongo here is such a Vancouver-specific fallacy (always the goalie's fault, always the goalie, never the players, always the goalie, unless it's McLean). Excluding the LAK game, where he wasn't great, but was also hung out to dry by weak down-low coverage on at least 2 of the goals, he has let in 2 or fewer in each of the last 8 games. He has 2SO on the year, which equals the league best. He has a respectable (granted, not sparkling) .912SP. He has been absolutely everything we needed him to be this year. It's just, we can't score. We don't have the horses.

Then again, we knew that would be the case coming into the year. You need only look at our roster to see. Santorelli's hot start allowed us to shirk the eventual drought by a dozen or so games. So did a bunch of games against the weaker sisters of the East. This lack of scoring shouldn't be surprising to anyone, as it was all but an inevitability.
 

ChilliBilly

Registered User
Aug 22, 2007
7,081
4,329
chilliwacki
Predictable - one point in 4 games and the bandwagon is abandoned.

We get this every year. Usually we have a slower start in Oct and the screaming starts then.

The Canucks are playing reasonably well, lots of shots, few goals against and are not getting results. I would be a lot more worried if we were losing 7 - 2 and getting double the shots against.

Am I cheerful about the present situation? Of course not. But lets not write the season off just yet.
 

BROCK HUGHES

Registered User
Jun 3, 2006
3,450
582
Victoria bc/red deer alberta
Predictable - one point in 4 games and the bandwagon is abandoned.

We get this every year. Usually we have a slower start in Oct and the screaming starts then.

The Canucks are playing reasonably well, lots of shots, few goals against and are not getting results. I would be a lot more worried if we were losing 7 - 2 and getting double the shots against.

Am I cheerful about the present situation? Of course not. But lets not write the season off just yet.
NO,Its Predictable - one point in 4 games .:help:
 

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,088
13,876
Missouri
Burkie and Nonis really stocked this group up before the departures.

If that was actually true with Nonis the canucks wouldn't have the gap in 24-26 year old players. But they do. The only players the canucks have in that age group are Gillis signings. And people wonder why the lack of depth at times. That's the reason. Nothing truly useful from the last couple years of Nonis. Grabner was his only NHL player that he drafted.

And before it's brought up that savior of the secondary scoring (Grabner) has 1 point in his last 15 games and has been pointless in his last 12 while being a -6 during that time. Only 3 NHLers the last 3 drafts and one was Bourdon. So what Nonis left the franchise with his last 3 drafts as a GM were Raymond and Grabner.

Not saying Gillis had good drafting his first few years as he likely didn't but he did supplement his drafting with Tanev and Lack for instance. And there is a reasonable chance he gets 5 or so players from his last three drafts.
 
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serge2k

Registered User
Sep 16, 2006
15,116
3
I agree. To blame Luongo here is such a Vancouver-specific fallacy (always the goalie's fault, always the goalie, never the players, always the goalie, unless it's McLean). Excluding the LAK game, where he wasn't great, but was also hung out to dry by weak down-low coverage on at least 2 of the goals, he has let in 2 or fewer in each of the last 8 games. He has 2SO on the year, which equals the league best. He has a respectable (granted, not sparkling) .912SP. He has been absolutely everything we needed him to be this year. It's just, we can't score. We don't have the horses.

Then again, we knew that would be the case coming into the year. You need only look at our roster to see. Santorelli's hot start allowed us to shirk the eventual drought by a dozen or so games. So did a bunch of games against the weaker sisters of the East. This lack of scoring shouldn't be surprising to anyone, as it was all but an inevitability.

No, it's not.

The goalie graveyard idea is burke's excuse for failing to ever acquire a solid goalie.

912 isn't really respectable, he does need to improve. His November numbers are solid enough, just can't get the wins.
 

serge2k

Registered User
Sep 16, 2006
15,116
3
Predictable - one point in 4 games and the bandwagon is abandoned.

We get this every year. Usually we have a slower start in Oct and the screaming starts then.

The Canucks are playing reasonably well, lots of shots, few goals against and are not getting results. I would be a lot more worried if we were losing 7 - 2 and getting double the shots against.

Am I cheerful about the present situation? Of course not. But lets not write the season off just yet.
Meh, same result. This team very clearly has too little offense.
 

serge2k

Registered User
Sep 16, 2006
15,116
3
If that was actually true with Nonis the canucks wouldn't have the gap in 24-26 year old players. But they do. The only players the canucks have in that age group are Gillis signings. And people wonder why the lack of depth at times. That's the reason. Nothing truly useful from the last couple years of Nonis. Grabner was his only NHL player that he drafted.

And before it's brought up that savior of the secondary scoring (Grabner) has 1 point in his last 15 games and has been pointless in his last 12 while being a -6 during that time. Only 3 NHLers the last 3 drafts and one was Bourdon. So what Nonis left the franchise with his last 3 drafts as a GM were Raymond and Grabner.

Not saying Gillis had good drafting his first few years as he likely didn't but he did supplement his drafting with Tanev and Lack for instance. And there is a reasonable chance he gets 5 or so players from his last three drafts.

They haven't really had a top 6 forward through the draft since Kesler, excluding hodgson. The best of the bunch are grabner and raymond. One got traded and waived, the other never consistently produced.

Haven't drafted a top 4 dman since Edler.

Terrible drafting is going to drive this team into a long rebuild at some point. :(
 

Wizeman*

Guest
Yes. Tracking the history of a GM's development of young players is useless.

The Canucks will keep shoveling **** and you'll continue to eat it and smile.

You sound like me .......................30 years ago when I first figured out the Canucks were sucking and they didn't seem to care very much about it.

Get used to it. The team will give you excuses and half baked trades and we will be mediocre for about 10 years until we stockpile enough talent to be good again.
 

Tobi Wan Kenobi

Registered User
May 25, 2011
5,284
94
Vancouver
You sound like me .......................30 years ago when I first figured out the Canucks were sucking and they didn't seem to care very much about it.

Get used to it. The team will give you excuses and half baked trades and we will be mediocre for about 10 years until we stockpile enough talent to be good again.

Tell me more master. What happens after ten years?
 

Just A Bit Outside

Playoffs??!
Mar 6, 2010
16,176
14,964
I don't know what everyone is freaking out about; likely because we got off to such a good start after minimal expectations.

This team is exactly what you would expect from a Torts team (i.e. comparing to NYR):
- Good forechecking/pressure of the puck
- Lots of shots for/try to minimize shots against
- Decent/good goaltending to keep you in games
- Can't score to save someone's life.

Everyone and their dog knew this team still didn't have enough secondary scoring.

Gillis likely wanted to see how the team started out and go from there. With our hot start and including injuries, there was reason for optimism.

However, that start also coincided with playing a majority of Eastern teams (even though it was on the road) and waiting for Burrows, Hansen, Booth (meh) to come back.

Now the guys are coming back but need time to catch up.

Team points/wins wise is actually decent in my eyes and I've loved how they give the effort.

Unfortunately, they play in the most brutal division in hockey and essentially "Can't Keep Up With the Joneses".

Now they either just need to say **** it and ride it out for the season and essentially focus on next year.

Or try and make some moves.

Either way, I got no expectations for the rest of the year.

My only hope is they do actual hockey trades and not just picks/prospects to help this year.
 
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ferroid

Registered User
Mar 22, 2010
707
78
Pittsburgh has lost 4 of their last 5! Are they suddenly an awful, declining team?

What the **** is wrong with some of you people? This team has been playing well, and has outplayed its opponent in several of its last losses.

In all likelihood, simple regression to the mean in terms of both power play and 5v5 shooting % will have this team streaking again before long.
 

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