Yes I agree, too many misdirected off failed blocks and blown coverages for me to put him in the 'good' category so far. He's been average, but at least he's buying into the new system. He's ok for the 3rd pairing, but I think he's in over his head when he's moved up to the 2nd pairing.
We're at the 1/4 mark...
- Thread starter carolinacanuck
- Start date
Yes I agree, too many misdirected off failed blocks and blown coverages for me to put him in the 'good' category so far. He's been average, but at least he's buying into the new system. He's ok for the 3rd pairing, but I think he's in over his head when he's moved up to the 2nd pairing.
TruKnyte
On the wagon
If we're grading players at the quarter-pole, relative to role, salary, and expectations, this would be my take :
Goalies
Luongo - B. It's a different Luongo than a few years back. He's no longer elite, and struggles a bit with his athleticism and mobility. Doesn't get to pucks that he used to. But he's battling hard, his rebound control has been very good, and he's been clutch at making the saves he's needed to late in close games.
Lack - B+. Numbers are matching Luongo's as a bargain-basement rookie backup. Nice start to his career, has looked good.
Defense
Bieksa - A. Has been our best defender, and many nights our best player. Still makes the occasional head-scratching blunder, but those have been outweighed by loads of terrific plays to drive possession.
Hamhuis - C+. Was horrible the first 5 games. Since then, he's rebounded and has been very good. Except on the PP, where the decision to continue using him on the #1 unit is perplexing.
Garrison - C+. Reverse of Hamhuis. Started great the first 10 games, has looked poor for the past 10. Struggling at both ends of the rink right now.
Edler - C-. Our most disappointing player so far. Hoped that healthy with a new coach, he'd have a breakthrough as a top player. Instead, he's regressed. Is being overplayed, and now a -7 on the season. Struggled on the PP and not contributing offensively. Should not be seeing minutes against top lines of the opposition - seeming to have major troubles reading the play on the rush, and way too many guys are getting in behind him. I was opposed to the idea of trading him last summer, but in hindsight it would have been a good idea given the way Tanev and Stanton have played. Needs a major turnaround.
Tanev - B+. Great on the PK, seeing top-4 minutes most nights (ahead of Garrison lately). Sometimes goes for a shot block at a bad time, but generally has seen a massive step forward in his play at both ends of the rink.
Stanton - A. Waiver pickup has been rock solid, and looks like he could handle more minutes than he's playing. Only Bieksa has more points at ES, and his composure with the puck has been frankly astonishing for a guy coming in with a reputation as a low-even defensive banger. Will be a top-4 NHL defender in the future.
Weber - Incomplete. Hasn't played more than a couple shifts at forward. The fact he wasn't used on the point on the PP given how dreadful we've been there is bizarre.
Alberts - F. Terrible player. Coaching staff has no confidence in him. Unplayable. Why is he still on the roster eating cap space?
Forwards
Henrik - B+. Would have been an A until poor recent road trip where he struggled. Has still been easily the team's best forward.
Daniel - C+. Being carried by his brother at times. Games 5-15 were much better.
Kesler - B-. Scoring goals when with the Sedins. Doing nothing offensively otherwise. Was a beast defensively on the long road trip, though.
Santorelli - A+. Best forward not named Henrik. Has busted his ass in all three zones on every single shift, and reward with results offensively. Great signing.
Higgins - B+. Couldn't buy a goal early, but on pace for 25 now. Just a solid contributor at both ends of the rink.
Hansen - C. Play was a little off by his standards early, then got hurt.
Burrows - C. Cutting him a little bit of slack because he was injured. But 2 points in 8 games simply isn't good enough. Does not look like a top-6 player when separated from the Sedins. Really wonder how bad that new contract will look in a couple years.
Kassian - C. Incredibly hit-and-miss. Had some very good games on the road trip and seemed to be showing progress ... then was terrible in the past couple games. Needs to keep his feet moving and find some consistency.
Booth - D. Yuck. Shame we couldn't buy him out last summer. Hopefully the AHL stint wakes him up and we can get a bit of value out of him before buying him out next summer.
Richardson - A. 4th line center has 10 points in 20 games, great on the PK, and does all the little things well. Excellent signing.
Weise - C+. Usual solid 4th line play before his injury.
Sestito - D. He stinks, and to me is a waste of a roster spot, but he's had a couple better games lately.
Dalpe - D. Has done zilch so far. The one off-season acquisition who hasn't worked out. Needs to go to the AHL and get some minutes and confidence.
Archibald - B. Not quite ready but showed well, and will be up again before the season is out. Big body who finishes his checks. Needs to get stronger on the puck along the boards in his own zone.
Welsh - B. For a nobody throw-in to the Dalpe deal, he's looked pretty decent. Supremely low-event player, but a big body that can chew up 10 minutes/game without hurting you isn't a poor system asset.
Schroeder - incomplete. Injured twice. Clock is ticking, and you have to wonder where he fits here.
Coach
Tortorella - B+. Has done everything well except for the PP, which is a total disaster. But the team looks prepared and hard-working, PK is great, hasn't done anything controversial yet. Positive change.
Goalies
Luongo - B. It's a different Luongo than a few years back. He's no longer elite, and struggles a bit with his athleticism and mobility. Doesn't get to pucks that he used to. But he's battling hard, his rebound control has been very good, and he's been clutch at making the saves he's needed to late in close games.
Lack - B+. Numbers are matching Luongo's as a bargain-basement rookie backup. Nice start to his career, has looked good.
Defense
Bieksa - A. Has been our best defender, and many nights our best player. Still makes the occasional head-scratching blunder, but those have been outweighed by loads of terrific plays to drive possession.
Hamhuis - C+. Was horrible the first 5 games. Since then, he's rebounded and has been very good. Except on the PP, where the decision to continue using him on the #1 unit is perplexing.
Garrison - C+. Reverse of Hamhuis. Started great the first 10 games, has looked poor for the past 10. Struggling at both ends of the rink right now.
Edler - C-. Our most disappointing player so far. Hoped that healthy with a new coach, he'd have a breakthrough as a top player. Instead, he's regressed. Is being overplayed, and now a -7 on the season. Struggled on the PP and not contributing offensively. Should not be seeing minutes against top lines of the opposition - seeming to have major troubles reading the play on the rush, and way too many guys are getting in behind him. I was opposed to the idea of trading him last summer, but in hindsight it would have been a good idea given the way Tanev and Stanton have played. Needs a major turnaround.
Tanev - B+. Great on the PK, seeing top-4 minutes most nights (ahead of Garrison lately). Sometimes goes for a shot block at a bad time, but generally has seen a massive step forward in his play at both ends of the rink.
Stanton - A. Waiver pickup has been rock solid, and looks like he could handle more minutes than he's playing. Only Bieksa has more points at ES, and his composure with the puck has been frankly astonishing for a guy coming in with a reputation as a low-even defensive banger. Will be a top-4 NHL defender in the future.
Weber - Incomplete. Hasn't played more than a couple shifts at forward. The fact he wasn't used on the point on the PP given how dreadful we've been there is bizarre.
Alberts - F. Terrible player. Coaching staff has no confidence in him. Unplayable. Why is he still on the roster eating cap space?
Forwards
Henrik - B+. Would have been an A until poor recent road trip where he struggled. Has still been easily the team's best forward.
Daniel - C+. Being carried by his brother at times. Games 5-15 were much better.
Kesler - B-. Scoring goals when with the Sedins. Doing nothing offensively otherwise. Was a beast defensively on the long road trip, though.
Santorelli - A+. Best forward not named Henrik. Has busted his ass in all three zones on every single shift, and reward with results offensively. Great signing.
Higgins - B+. Couldn't buy a goal early, but on pace for 25 now. Just a solid contributor at both ends of the rink.
Hansen - C. Play was a little off by his standards early, then got hurt.
Burrows - C. Cutting him a little bit of slack because he was injured. But 2 points in 8 games simply isn't good enough. Does not look like a top-6 player when separated from the Sedins. Really wonder how bad that new contract will look in a couple years.
Kassian - C. Incredibly hit-and-miss. Had some very good games on the road trip and seemed to be showing progress ... then was terrible in the past couple games. Needs to keep his feet moving and find some consistency.
Booth - D. Yuck. Shame we couldn't buy him out last summer. Hopefully the AHL stint wakes him up and we can get a bit of value out of him before buying him out next summer.
Richardson - A. 4th line center has 10 points in 20 games, great on the PK, and does all the little things well. Excellent signing.
Weise - C+. Usual solid 4th line play before his injury.
Sestito - D. He stinks, and to me is a waste of a roster spot, but he's had a couple better games lately.
Dalpe - D. Has done zilch so far. The one off-season acquisition who hasn't worked out. Needs to go to the AHL and get some minutes and confidence.
Archibald - B. Not quite ready but showed well, and will be up again before the season is out. Big body who finishes his checks. Needs to get stronger on the puck along the boards in his own zone.
Welsh - B. For a nobody throw-in to the Dalpe deal, he's looked pretty decent. Supremely low-event player, but a big body that can chew up 10 minutes/game without hurting you isn't a poor system asset.
Schroeder - incomplete. Injured twice. Clock is ticking, and you have to wonder where he fits here.
Coach
Tortorella - B+. Has done everything well except for the PP, which is a total disaster. But the team looks prepared and hard-working, PK is great, hasn't done anything controversial yet. Positive change.
No kidding. I cant believe people haven't been talking about Edler more. -7 and 6 pts in 17 games.
Dead weight @ 5 mil, we NEED him to pick it up badly.
Burrows has been invisible as well.
If it weren't for some great bargain bin offseason signings by MG, we would be well out of a playoff spot by now.
I'm the cynical one so of coarse I predicted they'll miss the playoffs but it's also a very real possibility. People who pegged us as the #4 seed probably didn't count on the Coyotes being this good.
I think LA will pass us soon and we'll be on the outside.
I think LA will pass us soon and we'll be on the outside.
hockeywoot
Registered User
Generally speaking, I feel we are a more difficult team to play against this year.
My only real concern at this stage is the PP. A team that doesn't punish you for taking penalties...is an easier opponent to play against.
I feel this whole "Pacific division blah blah blah" is overblown.
We've thrown away several games where we were well in control (Ana, SJ, PHX), due to critical errors.
Lack of secondary scoring is a secondary problem.
Of course I'd like it to be better, but getting a legit top line fwd will be difficult without giving up something significant.
My only real concern at this stage is the PP. A team that doesn't punish you for taking penalties...is an easier opponent to play against.
I feel this whole "Pacific division blah blah blah" is overblown.
We've thrown away several games where we were well in control (Ana, SJ, PHX), due to critical errors.
Lack of secondary scoring is a secondary problem.
Of course I'd like it to be better, but getting a legit top line fwd will be difficult without giving up something significant.
NuxFan09
Registered User
What sucks is Gillis decided to keep Edler and let Erhoff go. Could have traded Edler and got some assets for him.
topched88
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2007
- 1,381
- 362
This is great, really well thought out and I agree with just about everything in this post, the only disagreement is I think edler at a c- is a little harsh. I think hes been just okay, ofcourse that's just me. Outside of that I really think this is all bang on and makes some really good points
NuxFan09
Registered User
Regarding Edler, he's -8 but so is Shea Weber. I'm not comparing the two. I'm just saying it's not like Edler's play has necessarily been that dreadful. He has passed the eye test in my mind. Sometimes you just rack up the minuses. It's happened to Shea Weber and Marc Staal and one is a lock on Team Canada at the Olympics and the other has a good shot.
Excellent as always. I would have Booth lower based on contract but then again I had low expectations for him. Yet his play has been worse than I expected.
Henrik I would have A- for. I think he has played well but is hurt by Daniel's lack of production. I still think I would reunite the Twins and Burrows.
My good surprise player is Santorelli. I thought he would be a dud.
My dissapointment is Kesler. I know he has 9 goals but he doesn't seem as dominant. I thought he would excel under Torts. Still early though.
Why is Alberts still on the team?
It's hilarious how people grade Edler and Garrsion poorly but don't really pay attention. If they were playing as poorly as some of you are making it out to be, that pairing wouldn't be the first pairing yet they soak up the majority of the minutes and against the toughest competition as well. They're also out there babysitting the 3rd and 4th lines who are terrible at getting out of the zone.
The top 2 lines get to play a lot with every pairing but do you guys know who Torts puts out there to babysit the 3rd and 4th lines? Not Hamhuis-Tanev and not Stanton-Bieksa but Edler-Garrison. Maybe, just maybe, but I'm guessing Torts trusts that pairing the most.
The top 2 lines get to play a lot with every pairing but do you guys know who Torts puts out there to babysit the 3rd and 4th lines? Not Hamhuis-Tanev and not Stanton-Bieksa but Edler-Garrison. Maybe, just maybe, but I'm guessing Torts trusts that pairing the most.
pahlsson
Registered User
- Mar 22, 2012
- 9,950
- 467
i don't think anyone on our defence has looked bad at all this year (at least compared to some of the awful defending we've seen the past couple of years)
hamhuis started out terrible but seems to have righted the ship, bieksa is playing some of his best and most consistent hockey in years. garrison's been kinda mediocre lately but still generally solid and edler has been pretty disappointing offensively but he's cut down on his boneheaded mistakes too
hamhuis started out terrible but seems to have righted the ship, bieksa is playing some of his best and most consistent hockey in years. garrison's been kinda mediocre lately but still generally solid and edler has been pretty disappointing offensively but he's cut down on his boneheaded mistakes too
opendoor
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
- 11,719
- 1,403
What's your source on that?
Here's how much 5-on-5 time Richardson has spent with various defenders so far:
Tanev: 83:41
Stanton: 82:55
Bieksa: 82:44
Hamhuis: 72:03
Garrison: 70:19
Edler: 67:18
And Sestito's common TOI with the defense:
Stanton: 50:41
Bieksa: 50:16
Garrison: 36:17
Tanev: 36:06
Edler: 29:59
Hamhuis: 29:22
I see no evidence that Garrison and Edler get more ice time with the bottom 6 than the other defensemen do.
this where i expect them to finish the season too.
Sedin regression is here
on the bright side goaltending and defense looks good for the foreseeable future
The worst is yet to come....
Tired of David Booth's play?
Tired of losing trade after trade?
Tired of reclamation projects?
Tired of scoring one goal a game?
Tired of watching this team go from first to last in PP%?
Tired of watching our core age and slow down?
Tired of watching our GM do nothing about it?
The worst hasn't even begun.
Want to be scared? Really worried?
Mike Gillis and his development team will be in charge of developing our shiny new prospects. Yes, the team that bought you such players as.........NONE!
Yes, NONE! No forward Gillis has drafted is playing for our team and you expect Horvat, Shink, Guance, Jensen to pan out?
I can deal with the aging group, it happens, but what's really scary is the GM who has been 0 for 20? picks is set to develop these shiny new toys.
Watch the disaster unfold.
Tired of David Booth's play?
Tired of losing trade after trade?
Tired of reclamation projects?
Tired of scoring one goal a game?
Tired of watching this team go from first to last in PP%?
Tired of watching our core age and slow down?
Tired of watching our GM do nothing about it?
The worst hasn't even begun.
Want to be scared? Really worried?
Mike Gillis and his development team will be in charge of developing our shiny new prospects. Yes, the team that bought you such players as.........NONE!
Yes, NONE! No forward Gillis has drafted is playing for our team and you expect Horvat, Shink, Guance, Jensen to pan out?
I can deal with the aging group, it happens, but what's really scary is the GM who has been 0 for 20? picks is set to develop these shiny new toys.
Watch the disaster unfold.
Win One Before I Die
Cautious Optimism
- Jul 31, 2007
- 5,119
- 4
VanillaCoke
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2013
- 25,155
- 11,482
The Canucks will not be participating in this years post season, IMHO.
If they somehow do, they will be destroyed.
Vankiller Whale
Fire Benning
Hodgson has done well, so you can't say zero of his picks have made as Hodgson was his pick, Corrado is also doing great, Lack and Tanev are both looking good too, not draft picks but still were develop under Gillis. I do agree Gillis has slipped a lot as a GM the last few season and had the time fix these scoring issues. Chances of us missing the playoffs this year are good and he's given everyone NTC so moves are limited. Gillis plays it safe and his days as GM could be coming to an end, what does he do if we miss the playoffs? That'll be 3 years with a steady regress.
The four horsemen have arrived.
The first of which, the white rider, was Tim Thomas, harbinger of doom, and conqueror of the Stanley Cup, stealing it from the hands of the Canucks.
The second of which, the red rider, is the referees, persecuting the Canucks players, some of which was seen today!
The third of which, the black rider, is Keith Ballard and David Booth, causing a FAMINE of cap space, squeezing every vital bit this team had!
The fourth of which, the pale rider, signals the end of the Canucks, the end of an era, where y2kcanucks' fantasies come true and the management decide to TANK for the saviour McDavid, the second coming.
The first of which, the white rider, was Tim Thomas, harbinger of doom, and conqueror of the Stanley Cup, stealing it from the hands of the Canucks.
The second of which, the red rider, is the referees, persecuting the Canucks players, some of which was seen today!
The third of which, the black rider, is Keith Ballard and David Booth, causing a FAMINE of cap space, squeezing every vital bit this team had!
The fourth of which, the pale rider, signals the end of the Canucks, the end of an era, where y2kcanucks' fantasies come true and the management decide to TANK for the saviour McDavid, the second coming.
Losing the Moose was a huge blow for this organization. Mike Keane as well. Burkie and Nonis really stocked this group up before the departures.
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
- 29,949
- 25,333
Misc, what blue chippers have we had under Gillis' tenure? We have one in Kassian as he's the result of Hodgson. We have Schroeder who does get injured, but he's a good player. KCONN got moved for Roy. Jensen is a longer term project which was known at the draft. Corrado is going to play for us soon. Our first five picks in the draft this year are all really promising. Gaunce has an extremely high hockey IQ. He'll always be a right place right time player at any level. He'll be an NHL player some day, but it's up to debate what his role will be. Also, we did sign Tanev so he should count for something lol.
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