Wendel Clark vs. Terry O'Reilly

[arrbez]

Two guys I see a lot of similarities in. Both were bad, bad men who could play them game with their gloves on or off. Both retired young (age 33), and both have their jerseys hanging in the rafters for Original Six franchises.

Who's your pick?

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[Psycho Papa Joe]

If Clark hadn't had his back issues, I don't think this would be close. But he did, and this is pretty much a dead heat career wise in terms of numbers.

So the tie breaker is natural talent and IMO Clark had more.

On the fight board I mentioned how Brideman and O'Reilly don't get enough credit career wise, especially in comparison to Clark Gillies, another very similar player is in the hall. To be honest, career wise I don't see a big difference between the 4 players. Gillies being on a 4 time cup winner sure got alot of mileage in this case.

 

[reckoning]

Interesting article from 1978 where Fred Shero pinpoints O'Reilly as the reason Philadelphia couldn't beat Boston in the playoffs around that time: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1093647/index.htm

Philadelphia Coach Fred Shero was convinced the Flyers lost because they were unable to neutralize O'Reilly's aggressiveness in the corners and in front of Parent. "I wonder if even the Bruins realize how good O'Reilly really is," Shero said. "I know that the rest of the world doesn't understand that O'Reilly is one of the best players in the world. He's much like Bobby Clarke in that he never stops giving second effort. Sometime soon—like right now—I've got to come up with a line that can handle O'Reilly. A line, I said, not just one player."

 

[seventieslord]

I'm going to say clark but i agree it's a dead heat.

Clark's career GPG average is actually higher than Kevin Stevens' and he never played with Mario. (he did have a season with Dougie, but that's hardly the same thing)

 

[Big Phil]

Clark wins this one. Although what a fight that would be eh?

As a player Clark was very valuable when he wasn't hurt. We forget this often. Maybe he wasn't a Hall of Famer if he has a full career, or maybe he is. Who knows. But the man was someone you wanted on your team

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Clark wins this one. Although what a fight that would be eh?

As a player Clark was very valuable when he wasn't hurt. We forget this often. Maybe he wasn't a Hall of Famer if he has a full career, or maybe he is. Who knows. But the man was someone you wanted on your team

He only had one season in his career where he was over a point per game, this playing half his career in the highest scoring era in history.

I highly doubt he would have been close to a HOFer if healthy.

I say this fully admitting that I didn't actually watch him play until after his prime.

Clark was basically traded straight up for Claude Lemieux in a 3 way deal. Would I be out of line to say that a healthy Clark would have had a career on the same level as Claude Lemieux, albeit with totally different styles? Very good player, very memorable, but a definite step below HOFer.

 

[arrbez]

He only had one season in his career where he was over a point per game, this playing half his career in the highest scoring era in history.

I highly doubt he would have been close to a HOFer if healthy.

I say this fully admitting that I didn't actually watch him play until after his prime.

Clark was basically traded straight up for Claude Lemieux in a 3 way deal. Would I be out of line to say that a healthy Clark would have had a career on the same level as Claude Lemieux, albeit with totally different styles? Very good player, very memorable, but a definite step below HOFer.

It would have been interesting to see. With the rate he scored goals at his entire career (basically a 35 goal pace on average), it's not hard to imagine him ending his career with 500 (he scored 330 in less than 800 games). Of course, did the style that made him so effective also lead to his injuries...?

Wendel Clark was definitely a level above Claude Lemieux. He's a guy whose value goes well beyond the numbers.

*Man-crush alert*

Did you see the video? He beat the **** out of everyone! He pumped Neely, caved McSorley's face in, one-punched Fetisov, beat Probert a couple times, dropped devastating hits all over the ice, actually murdered some poor man named Bruce Bell, decapitated Cujo, AND was a monster in the playoffs. TOTAL BEAUTY.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Wendel Clark was definitely a level above Claude Lemieux. He's a guy whose value goes well beyond the numbers.

Lemieux's value went beyond the numbers for a different reason though. We all know about his agitating, but he was also a great defensive player and one of the most effective shadows of the 90s.

Maybe on a "per game" basis Clark was better. Definitely a much better fighter than Claude the Turtle obviously

It's probably a really bad comparison since they were totally different, but I was just trying to figure out what Clark's value (or ranking in a historical sense) would have been if he had stayed healthy. I find it really hard to believe he would have been a HOFer.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Did you see the video? He beat the **** out of everyone! He pumped Neely, caved McSorley's face in, one-punched Fetisov, beat Probert a couple times, dropped devastating hits all over the ice, actually murdered some poor man named Bruce Bell, AND scored huge goals in the playoffs. TOTAL BEAUTY.

I miss the days when enforcers actually fought like they wanted to kill the other guy.

Now, it's all (or mostly) staged fights where there's more jersey tugging than actual punches thrown... boring.

 

[arrbez]

I miss the days when enforcers actually fought like they wanted to kill the other guy.

Now, it's all (or mostly) staged fights where there's more jersey tugging than actual punches thrown... boring.

Agreed. I absolutely hate fighters who just try to tie the other guy up in his own jersey. I wonder if the tighter-fitting sweaters since the lockout have made that easier to do?

As a Leaf fan, I love Colton Orr because he actually goes out there and throws bombs. He doesn't just grab the jersey and try to spin the guy around like Belak did.

Fighting just isn't as organic as it used to be. It's not just that half the fights are staged now, but that people seem to want to score it like a boxing match. That drives me nuts, when fans are counting punches to determine the "winner", like it's a spectacle unto itself, and not part of the game at all. The point should be to send a message, not score points on the judges scorecard. I've seen people say that McSorely won the famous fight in the playoffs in 1993 because he landed more punches than Clark. But did you see his face after? He was mangled, and the message was sent.

 

[revolverjgw]

I'd take Lemieux over Clark any day. Clark's physical game may be sexier, but Lemieux's non-statistical contributions were even more useful... he could shadow opponents while still putting up big points, and could take entire teams off their games without sacrificing anything but his dignity... but dignity shcmignity, he didn't care and why should he, contenders were tripping all over each other to get him and win with him.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'd take Lemieux over Clark any day. Clark's physical game may be sexier, but Lemieux's non-statistical contributions were even more useful... he could shadow opponents while still putting up big points, and could take entire teams off their games without sacrificing anything but his dignity... but dignity shcmignity, he didn't care and why should he, contenders were tripping all over each other to get him and win with him.

Personally, I agree with you. I think the worst mistake Lou L ever made was trading Lemieux away after 1995 over a contract dispute.

No way to prove this obviously, but I think with Lemieux in the lineup, the Devils make the playoffs in 1996 - they missed on the last day of the season. I think they beat the Rangers in the playoffs in 1997, which would have given them a date with the Flyers in the 1997 ECF - the Devils controlled the play the majority of that series but were missing clutch scoring.

Oh, sorry to take this thing off topic.

 

[seventieslord]

I said Clark and I stand by that, but I'm really surprised this poll is 9-0 right now.