Wellwood must be one-way?

[mepex]

According to Jim Rutherford:

Wellwood has agreed to a one-year, two-way contract with the Blues, according to sources. However, he is not eligible to play in Peoria this season because the Blues missed the Dec. 15 deadline that would have allowed him to be paid a two-way contract. Therefore, if signed, Wellwood must either play with the Blues, or be paid an NHL salary if he is waived. A deal may still happen, but currently it's being held up.

I can't find anything in the CBA that states there's a cutoff as to when a player can sign a two way deal. Can somebody confirm or deny Rutherford's claim?

Click to read more...

 

[macavoy]

Doesn't matter, he was claimed.

 

[LadyStanley]

It's an AHL-PHPA CBA issue, AIUI.

As Wellwood played in Europe, but signed a deal after 15-December, he can be assigned to the AHL (cap relief, etc.), but he cannot dress for an AHL game.

 

[kdb209]

It's an AHL-PHPA CBA issue, AIUI.

As Wellwood played in Europe, but signed a deal after 15-December, he can be assigned to the AHL (cap relief, etc.), but he cannot dress for an AHL game.

I've seen references that it is an eligibility to play issue, not a prohibition against assigning him.

Someone here once sent me a copy of or a link to the AHL/PHPA CBA - but sadly I can't find that email.

Unfortunately, the AHL CBA is not available on line - it looks like you can just purchase it from the PHPA for $10.

Does anyone here have a copy/pointer to the AHL CBA?

Although some tweets said it was a By-Law issue, not a CBA one - I would guess that those would be virtually impossible to find.

 

[danishh]

the phpa has this 'main points' summary: http://www.phpa.com/en/content/home/about/ahl-collective-bargaining-agreement/


but details on this clause arnt included.

 

[mepex]

I've seen references that it is an eligibility to play issue, not a prohibition against assigning him.

Someone here once sent me a copy of or a link to the AHL/PHPA CBA - but sadly I can't find that email.

Unfortunately, the AHL CBA is not available on line - it looks like you can just purchase it from the PHPA for $10.

Does anyone here have a copy/pointer to the AHL CBA?

Although some tweets said it was a By-Law issue, not a CBA one - I would guess that those would be virtually impossible to find.

I'm either mentally ill or have money to burn, because I spent the $10 on the CBA. There is no mention of any December cutoff in there either. I suppose it could be in the bylaws, but this seems like exactly the type of thing that would be bargained for.

 

[AllByDesign]

John Davidson is obviously upset with the process.

Story

At least he is handling it with more decorum than Burkie's rant on Offer Sheets.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Um, why was Jim Rutherford analyzing this?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Also, I like Davidson's comments on the matter. It does indeed highlight the difference between him and some of the coarser league executives.

 

[mepex]

Um, why was Jim Rutherford analyzing this?

Sorry, it's Jeremy Rutherford. Link to the post here.

 

[LadyStanley]

John Davidson is obviously upset with the process.

Story

At least he is handling it with more decorum than Burkie's rant on Offer Sheets.

Guessing he wants it included in future GM meeting agendas and something worked out for next CBA.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sorry, it's Jeremy Rutherford. Link to the post here.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense

 

[kdb209]

I'm either mentally ill or have money to burn, because I spent the $10 on the CBA. There is no mention of any December cutoff in there either. I suppose it could be in the bylaws, but this seems like exactly the type of thing that would be bargained for.

I agree - especially since, unlike in the NHL CBA (where the "League Rules", which include the By-Laws and League interpretations/rulings, are included in the CBA, giving them an implicit approval by the NHLPA), the AHL By-Laws are not included in the CBA (and are explicitly excluded).

30.1 League Rules. Subject to Section 30.3, the NHL, each Club and each Player
shall be bound by the provisions of the League Rules. In the event of a conflict between
this Agreement and said League Rules, the provisions of this Agreement shall govern. A
copy of the current League Rules, all amendments thereto, and any official interpretations
of this Agreement shall be available at the office of each Club. On or before September 1
of each League Year, the League shall send to the NHLPA a complete set of current
League Rules. No Player shall be bound by any provision of a League Rule that has not
been furnished to the NHLPA in accordance with this Article.

Section 6: AHL Constitution, By-Laws, Regulations and League Policies

a. The AHL Constitution, By-Laws, Regulations and League Policies shall remain independent and shall not, in any way, be incorporated by past practice or agreement into the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

b. The parties hereto agree that the AHL Constitution, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations and League Policies shall remain the exclusive jurisdiction of the AHL and its Member Teams.

c. The AHL agrees to make available through each Member Club a copy of the AHL Constitution, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations and League Policies to PHPA members. Furthermore, the League shall provide the PHPA with copies of AHL Constitution, By-Laws, Rules and Regulations and League Policies, which shall not be reproduced in any way or form.

It's reasonably likely that should some AHL player challenge the December 15 By-Law restriction in court on anti-trust grounds that it could be overturned - since it does not appear to be a product of collective bargainaing and thus not subject to the Non Statutory Labor Exemption to US anti trust law.

edit: Upon further review, it looks like the AHL By-Laws are included under the CBA by reference at the end of the AHL Standard Players Contract - but that agreement would not affect players like Wellwood, who has not signed an AHL SPC and would be playing under an NHL contract.

16. GOVERNING INSTRUMENTS – The Club and the Player severally and mutually promise and agree to be legally bound by the Constitution, By-Laws, Regulations and Policies of the League and by any Collective Bargaining Agreement that has or may be entered into between the League and the PHPA, and by all the terms and provisions thereof, that are in full force and effect, as of the date of the signing during the term of this Contract, a copy of which shall be open and available for inspection by the Club, its directors and officers, and the Player, at the main office of the League, and at the main office of the Club. The Contract is entered into subject to the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the League , its Member Clubs and the PHPA, and any provisions of this Contract inconsistent with such Collective Bargaining Agreement are superseded by the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[mouser]

It's reasonably likely that should some AHL player challenge the December 15 By-Law restriction in court on anti-trust grounds that it could be overturned - since it does not appear to be a product of collective bargainaing and thus not subject to the Non Statutory Labor Exemption to US anti trust law.

edit: Upon further review, it looks like the AHL By-Laws are included under the CBA by reference at the end of the AHL Standard Players Contract - but that agreement would not affect players like Wellwood, who has not signed an AHL SPC and would be playing under an NHL contract.

Beat my counterpoint with the edit

I would also think they're included by reference in the CBA at least somewhat with the PHPA agreeing that the AHL has jurisdiction over the bylaws. If this is a rule that has been in place for a while would the PHPA not be considered to have acquiesced in their CBA acceptance?

A related question: I assume players in the AHL are required to join the PHPA whether they're playing under an NHL or AHL contract?

 

[LadyStanley]

A related question: I assume players in the AHL are required to join the PHPA whether they're playing under an NHL or AHL contract?

AIUI, kinda.

There's a "base" $$ extracted from players contracts, in the AHL (and ECHL, CHL -- separate CBAs, respectively).

However, players do not have to sign with the union (for coverage of image licensing, etc.), which may be at a higher rate.

(If you really want to know, I can ask my contact at the PHPA.)

 

[kdb209]

A related question: I assume players in the AHL are required to join the PHPA whether they're playing under an NHL or AHL contract?

They are not required to officially join the PHPA - but they are covered by the terms of the AHL/PHPA CBA and are required to pay PHPA dues.

Generally, employees cannot be forced to join a union as a condition of employment, however they can be forced to still pay membership dues which fund the operation of the union. They are permitted to withhold a portion of their dues that the union would use for political activities.

There have been in the past some athletes who were not members of their Players Associations - including replacement players who crossed the picket lines during the 1995 preseason MLB strike and later played in the big leagues (Brendan Donnelly, Kevin Millar, and the late Cory Lidle being the most well known). They were barred for life from joining the MLBPA. Donnelly was released by the Pirates last summer and was the last remaining active replacement player from the '95 strike.

edit: The AHL CBA explictly recognizes this:

ARTICLE V
UNION SECURITY

Section 1: Association Membership

Every Player has the option of joining or not joining the Association; provided, however, that as a condition of employment commencing with the execution of this Agreement and for the duration of this Agreement, wherever and whenever legal:

(a) any active Player who is or and later becomes a member in good standing of the Association must maintain his membership in good standing in the Association; and

(b) any active Player (including a Player in the future) who is not a member in good standing of the Association must, on the 30th day following the beginning of his employment, or with the execution of this Agreement, whichever is later, pay to the Association a service fee in the same amount as any initiation fee required of members of the Association and any dues of the Association.​

There is a very similar Union Security clause in Article 4 of the NHL CBA.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Ah, that makes a lot more sense

I was thinking the same. I was all wow he really likes to keep an eye out for the rest of the league

 

[Michael Farkas]

Since it's now a hot button issue all of a sudden, what are the drawbacks to this proposal:

European UFAs may sign with a team unilaterally (that is, without waivers) by December 15 (same deadline for RFAs to play in the NHL, I believe). After that, they require waivers in the same process that we have currently. Both sides would be ok with that, perhaps?

 

[LadyStanley]

Since it's now a hot button issue all of a sudden, what are the drawbacks to this proposal:

European UFAs may sign with a team unilaterally (that is, without waivers) by December 15 (same deadline for RFAs to play in the NHL, I believe). After that, they require waivers in the same process that we have currently. Both sides would be ok with that, perhaps?

Actually, that deadline is December first.


I'm sure that with Davidson pushing, the BOG may have a proposal for a CBA tweak before they drop the puck in the 11-12 season.

 

[AllByDesign]

Since it's now a hot button issue all of a sudden, what are the drawbacks to this proposal:

European UFAs may sign with a team unilaterally (that is, without waivers) by December 15 (same deadline for RFAs to play in the NHL, I believe). After that, they require waivers in the same process that we have currently. Both sides would be ok with that, perhaps?

I think John Davidson had a fair point in stating that only the teams below the signing team in the standings should have the waiver exposure for that player. It may require a little more thought to round out the issue, but it is a good place to start.