Wellwood must be one-way?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by mepex, Jan 18, 2011.

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  1. mepex

    mepex Registered User

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    According to Jim Rutherford:

    I can't find anything in the CBA that states there's a cutoff as to when a player can sign a two way deal. Can somebody confirm or deny Rutherford's claim?
     
  2. macavoy

    macavoy Registered User

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    Doesn't matter, he was claimed.
     
  3. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    It's an AHL-PHPA CBA issue, AIUI.

    As Wellwood played in Europe, but signed a deal after 15-December, he can be assigned to the AHL (cap relief, etc.), but he cannot dress for an AHL game.
     
  4. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    I've seen references that it is an eligibility to play issue, not a prohibition against assigning him.

    Someone here once sent me a copy of or a link to the AHL/PHPA CBA - but sadly I can't find that email.

    Unfortunately, the AHL CBA is not available on line - it looks like you can just purchase it from the PHPA for $10.

    Does anyone here have a copy/pointer to the AHL CBA?

    Although some tweets said it was a By-Law issue, not a CBA one - I would guess that those would be virtually impossible to find.
     
  5. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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  6. mepex

    mepex Registered User

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    I'm either mentally ill or have money to burn, because I spent the $10 on the CBA. There is no mention of any December cutoff in there either. I suppose it could be in the bylaws, but this seems like exactly the type of thing that would be bargained for.
     
  7. AllByDesign

    AllByDesign Who's this ABD guy??

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    John Davidson is obviously upset with the process.

    Story

    At least he is handling it with more decorum than Burkie's rant on Offer Sheets. :laugh:
     
  8. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Um, why was Jim Rutherford analyzing this?
     
  9. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Also, I like Davidson's comments on the matter. It does indeed highlight the difference between him and some of the coarser league executives.
     
  10. mepex

    mepex Registered User

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    Sorry, it's Jeremy Rutherford. Link to the post here.
     
  11. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    Guessing he wants it included in future GM meeting agendas and something worked out for next CBA.
     
  12. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    Ah, that makes a lot more sense :laugh:
     
  13. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    I agree - especially since, unlike in the NHL CBA (where the "League Rules", which include the By-Laws and League interpretations/rulings, are included in the CBA, giving them an implicit approval by the NHLPA), the AHL By-Laws are not included in the CBA (and are explicitly excluded).

    It's reasonably likely that should some AHL player challenge the December 15 By-Law restriction in court on anti-trust grounds that it could be overturned - since it does not appear to be a product of collective bargainaing and thus not subject to the Non Statutory Labor Exemption to US anti trust law.

    edit: Upon further review, it looks like the AHL By-Laws are included under the CBA by reference at the end of the AHL Standard Players Contract - but that agreement would not affect players like Wellwood, who has not signed an AHL SPC and would be playing under an NHL contract.

     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  14. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    Beat my counterpoint with the edit :)

    I would also think they're included by reference in the CBA at least somewhat with the PHPA agreeing that the AHL has jurisdiction over the bylaws. If this is a rule that has been in place for a while would the PHPA not be considered to have acquiesced in their CBA acceptance?

    A related question: I assume players in the AHL are required to join the PHPA whether they're playing under an NHL or AHL contract?
     
  15. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    AIUI, kinda.

    There's a "base" $$ extracted from players contracts, in the AHL (and ECHL, CHL -- separate CBAs, respectively).

    However, players do not have to sign with the union (for coverage of image licensing, etc.), which may be at a higher rate.

    (If you really want to know, I can ask my contact at the PHPA.)
     
  16. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    They are not required to officially join the PHPA - but they are covered by the terms of the AHL/PHPA CBA and are required to pay PHPA dues.

    Generally, employees cannot be forced to join a union as a condition of employment, however they can be forced to still pay membership dues which fund the operation of the union. They are permitted to withhold a portion of their dues that the union would use for political activities.

    There have been in the past some athletes who were not members of their Players Associations - including replacement players who crossed the picket lines during the 1995 preseason MLB strike and later played in the big leagues (Brendan Donnelly, Kevin Millar, and the late Cory Lidle being the most well known). They were barred for life from joining the MLBPA. Donnelly was released by the Pirates last summer and was the last remaining active replacement player from the '95 strike.

    edit: The AHL CBA explictly recognizes this:

    There is a very similar Union Security clause in Article 4 of the NHL CBA.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  17. Fish on The Sand

    Fish on The Sand Untouchable

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    I was thinking the same. I was all wow he really likes to keep an eye out for the rest of the league
     
  18. Mike Farkas

    Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    Since it's now a hot button issue all of a sudden, what are the drawbacks to this proposal:

    European UFAs may sign with a team unilaterally (that is, without waivers) by December 15 (same deadline for RFAs to play in the NHL, I believe). After that, they require waivers in the same process that we have currently. Both sides would be ok with that, perhaps?
     
  19. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    Actually, that deadline is December first.


    I'm sure that with Davidson pushing, the BOG may have a proposal for a CBA tweak before they drop the puck in the 11-12 season.
     
  20. AllByDesign

    AllByDesign Who's this ABD guy??

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    I think John Davidson had a fair point in stating that only the teams below the signing team in the standings should have the waiver exposure for that player. It may require a little more thought to round out the issue, but it is a good place to start.
     

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