Welch ?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Brent Burns Beard, Dec 27, 2004.

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  1. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    Can someone please describe Noah Welch's style and potential ? who would he compare to in hte NHL and how long until he gets an NHL position.

    Thanks !

    DR
     
  2. Grave77digger

    Grave77digger Registered User

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    nhl position? 2-3 yrs atleast. he will spend atleast 1 season in the AHL. Looks to be an easy top 4 dman for Pittsburgh.

     
  3. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    stardog has seen him a lot, I'd listen to what he has to say when he replies.
     
  4. neelynugs

    neelynugs Registered User

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    i'd also be interested to hear who stardog thinks is better- welch or andrew alberts :)
     
  5. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge Registered User

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    I don't think he's 2-3 years away. There was talk that he could have made it on the Penguins out of camp last season, but of course he, wisely, stayed in Harvard. He's going into next season with 4 full seasons of college hockey under his belt. He'll be, at most, one year away.
     
  6. Grave77digger

    Grave77digger Registered User

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    i was including this year, then next year (AHL)
     
  7. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    I will tell you that many within the Penguins organization like Welch more than Whitney, and it isn't because they aren't high on Whitney.
     
  8. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    what current NHL Dman would you compare him to ?

    dr
     
  9. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    I dunno.
     
  10. hockeyfan125

    hockeyfan125 Registered User

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    A poor mans Wade Redden? (bit taller, but similar)
     
  11. CRUNK JUICE

    CRUNK JUICE Registered User

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    Not a bad comparison, I guess. He plays with more bite than Redden. though.
     
  12. Zoo

    Zoo Registered User

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    I was about to post Reds too. Or even Mike Rathje with more speed.
     
  13. #66

    #66 Registered User

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    Like Jac has said stardog seems to have seen him the most so maybe he or OC can post something. From what I've seen he's the Pens best defensive prospect and is also the most NHL ready. My player comparison would be to Adrian Aucoin without the huge shot. He's just great in his own zone and very grating to play against. He also has a ton of sense and is very safe about his passing. He has a good skill level but I wouldn't cast him as a true offensive D-man. Along with Whitney, Goligoski, Orpik, and Scuderi (spelling?) the Pens should have a very well rounded D for a long time.
     
  14. arnie

    arnie Registered User

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    Whitney's rating has dropped like a stone from the day he was drafted. He had a poor college season last year and has not been great art WBS this year. Outside of his brief burst in last year's AHL playoffs, he has not played especially well since draft day. Remember that after the big 54 (Nash, Lehtonen, Boumiester and Pitkanen) 2002 was the weakest draft year in memory. So far, Lupul looks by far to be the best of the rest.
     
  15. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    You are, as usual, incorrect on a number of points.

    Whitney led a poor BU team in scoring last year, won team MVP too if I'm not mistaken. He's had two excellent WJC tournaments under his belt.

    It's interesting you say he has not been great in WB/S this year. I'm not sure if you've seen any of their games, but I agree. He's been merely solid, with a few flashes of brilliance. One thing he IS doing is paying attention to the minor details of defensive assignments. He's doing well, not great, but not bad, from the two games I've seen.

    I'm not sure what the point was of your reply anyway. The fact remains Penguins brass is equally high on BOTH Welch and Whitney, and in the case of Eddie Johnston and a few others, they like Whitney's overall package a lot more.

    Who cares about Lupul? Semin looks to be a better prospect, too, but we drafted Whitney.
     
  16. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge Registered User

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    Do you care to back that up by any facts? Why is it that basically every non-Penguins fan thinks this way? If the Penguins were given the chance to make that pick again I have no doubt in my mind they would stick with Whitney.
     
  17. stardog

    stardog Registered User

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    Funny you should ask, cuz when I read 2-3 years away followed by "at least" I was going to reply anyways. Maybe with the lockout but remember this is the Pens defense we are talking about, and while they have alot of young talent with alot of potential, h is more polished than the ones I have seen often.
    I dont think he doesnt use his size either, its just that, like Whitney, because of his size people expect him to throw out monster checks or whatever, yet he plays the body at most opportunities.
    Could he e more physical with his frame consistently? Sure. But I would say that every prospect has things they need to work on and if this is his biggest issue then Im happy with that.
    He has the upside of a #1 Dman in my opinion but I usually stay away from talking about him on this forum beause he dmittedly IS my favorite prospect for the Pens and I think he is going to turn alot of heads when he makes the NHL (I would say e plays half a season in the AHL or none at all but we all know that noone can redict how one will adjust to the pro game).
    To me, he just does everything VERY well....not superstarish great but very well. And when you can do everything asked of you very well and be as well rounded as he is in all areas Id take that over a guy who excels better than 95% of the prospects in the scoring area but his defense or attitude is so poor it holds him back.
    I just like watching hi play this year. He has seemed to be a great captain and gets along great with his new coach Ted Donato.
     
  18. stardog

    stardog Registered User

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    Lke I said, Im biased....but Alberts has stood out in every game as a force and I think he could be special.
     
  19. stardog

    stardog Registered User

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    Aucin skates etter obviously and I like the Redden comparison not because of physical characteristics, but because they both (and Im talking strictly within thier own environments or leagues which isnt saying that Welch could do this as well as Redden n the NHL) embody what I ws speaking of above. Redden is an extremely good player not just because of his physical talents because certainly there are quite a few NHL Dmen who are more skilled, but because he s EXTREMELY cerebral and is able touse those talents and brain and vision to help the TEAM and not himself.
    Ive ALWAYS liked Redden because he isnt boisterous or obnoxious. He is better than early the entire league when you are talking bout an all around D-man. Seriously, how many guys would you trade Redden for straight up (Dmen only here)?
    This is why I like Noah as well. He just gets the job that needs to be done, done. He has that kind of aura about him (not Bure/Jagr jump out of your seat kind) that he seems to make everyone feel comfortable out there because he plays so poised yet at a high level, much like a great goalie can give confidence.
    There is just alot to like about this guy in alot of areas and I am one of those Pens fans who thinks he is a better Dman than Whitney and will be our franchise guy eventually.
    I could be wrong of course as he does make mistakes (we arent talking about God here) but I was asked for my opinion and that is it. I guess I cant cmpare him to one single player but the Redden one has many similarities that Ive outlined which have nothing to do witheithers skill or talent.
     
  20. hockeyfan125

    hockeyfan125 Registered User

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    Yea, I have only seen him play 2-3 times, but he seemed very similar to Redden in his mental side of the game and his all around above average play. He has a bit more of a mean streak than Redden, from what I have seen.
     
  21. stardog

    stardog Registered User

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    Check my history and Im no big supporter of Whitneys so I think it is more than fair for me to say this.
    I find it ironic that you dismiss his success in last years playoffs as a burst yet you say his draft rating has dropped since his draft day and a partial reason is his play thus far this year (whichI honestlt dont feel is all that bad considering he is a rookie and the AHL is MUCH deeper than it usually is because of the lockout).
    Why was his playoffs a "burst"? Why couldnt the first part of THIS season be the burst?
    Next is the college comment. Im not to certain what your criteria is, but the id led is team in scoring....and THAT was as a defenseman. Seems to me that insead of saying he had a dissapointing college season, you shuld be applauding a player who was actually one of the few who did thier jobs (which he clearly did).
    As stated, Im not a huge Ryan Whitney fan, but I am also not a fan of faulty reasoning. There was talk of drafting Lupul at the time and I was aganst that as well. Do you think Lupul would have accomplished what he accomplished if he were to have played on the Penguins? He had the luxury f other teams top D units going against some pretty serious star power.
    If you are going to rip on Whitney ten I will agree that his star has fallen since his draft day. And I predict it will rise once he gets through the pitfalls of what alot of yung plaers go through. I dont think he will be as good as most Pens fans do, but I disagree with almost everything you said, especially the insinuation that his playoff success last year was a fluke instead of the norm without taking in mitigating circumstances, and even more so that when he was one of the only players who DID do ther job on his college team it is deemed as a poor year.
    Did you want him to singlehandidly win every game and make every save to ensure they went undefeated?
    No, Ryan Whitney was NOT the problem and he rebounded from a dreadful SOPHOMORE season (which was actually when his star fell and not his junior season as you stated...though he played with a high ankle sprain but who cares) to turn in a VERY good junior season. I just dont understand the intelligence of equating a teams record with an individuals performance.
    And finally, as I said at the TIME of the draft and was RIDICULED mercilously on these very boards, the Pens should have taken Anton Babchuk in his place and NOT Lupul.
    And even today if you were to ask me (or even if youwerent) Id take Babchuk over Lupul.
    Did the Pens make a mistake drafting Whitney? Perhaps. Does your reasoning prove that to be true. Not in the slightest. Were talking about a draft thats two years old. I do like that you sai "so far" because you are correct. So far Lupul looks to be having much more success (obviously). And Whitney DOES have his problems (which I have documented time and again) which he may never learn from. But lets please be fair and not rip him for half truths or even worse, blatant mistruths.
     
  22. stardog

    stardog Registered User

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    Having said all that I just did, I would have taken Babchuk at the time and would do so now as well.
     
  23. arnie

    arnie Registered User

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    The reason is that they are objective.
     
  24. arnie

    arnie Registered User

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    I agree that Babchuk would have been a good pick. But Lupul has already shown that he can produce at the NHL level. Babchuk hasn't. Besides, the Pens' system needs scorers badly, so a player like Lupul would be more valuable to them.

    PS. Historical note: Rumor has it that the Lightning were going to take Lupul ahead of Pitkanen, who would have dropped to the Pens. Then they traded the pick to the Flyers. Sigh, what might have been.
     
  25. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge Registered User

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    Objective as in stupid doodoo heads?
     
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