Weinhandl or Sejna?

[Kafka]

This thread was started on a less visited forum, and since I would like more people to say what they think about it, I tought it was a good idea to ask the question here again.

I personnaly would pick Weinhadl, but two other persons voted Sejna and only one brought arguments.

Thanks!

Click to read more...

 

[degroat*]

If you're asking in fantasy terms... which is what the orginal thread was about... it would really depend on what moves the Blues make between now and the start of the season.

Currently, with the Blues needing wingers badly there's no doubt Sejna would make the team and play on a top two line. If that's the case, then in terms of fantasy scoring he's the easy choice.

BTW... I would do a little research into Sejna's AHL play if I were you.

 

[Kafka]

I am not talking about fantasy league potential... NHL potential.

As for Sejna season, I know it sadly... cause I picked him with my last choice in a pool last season and followed him all the way. ;-)

What have been the roster changes in St-Louis since last year for them to now "badly need wingers"? I know they prefered to get Brian Savage over moving Sejna back in the NHL. I know Demitra may be gone soon... but what is the thing different than last season?

 

[kimzey59]

I am not talking about fantasy league potential... NHL potential.

As for Sejna season, I know it sadly... cause I picked him with my last choice in a pool last season and followed him all the way. ;-)

What have been the roster changes in St-Louis since last year for them to now "badly need wingers"? I know they prefered to get Brian Savage over moving Sejna back in the NHL. I know Demitra may be gone soon... but what is the thing different than last season?

Savage got waived back to Phoenix and Demitra walked via Free Agency. Right now our top 2 lines are
Tkachuk Cajanek ??????
????? Weight Bogunieki(ideally Bogi would be on the third line with Drake and Sillinger)

According to Pleau we might only sign one FA so that leaves a roster spot open for one of the kids at Worcester. Sejna and Disalvatore are the top canadates for those spots and, considering his offensive abilities, Sejna probably has the edge.



As for the orginal question, I would pick Sejna. Weinhandl has some offensive potential but odds are he'll only play a third line role in NY. Sejna is almost assured a spot on our top 2 lines. Unless Weinhandl gets traded I wouldn't look for big point totals out of him. In fact, according to most reports he is fairly poor Defensively so I wouldn't look for him to get much(if any) playing time in NY for a few years(until Parrish or Blake gets moved).

 

[Kafka]

Still, I would like people from long island to give a shot to that question. I have difficulty understanding why Sejna would now be readdy for the NHL while he wasn't at the end of last season when St-Louis was in the need of a good winger... no one explained me that one yet.

 

[DuklaNation]

Neither.

Weinhandl is a fringe player at best.

Sejna is way too small and timid. Only 12 goals in the AHL is not promising.

I don't see either of them making any meaningful impact.

 

[degroat*]

Kafka... the answer to your questoin is pretty simple... you don't put your playoff hopes on a player with 20 games of experience.

Dukla... There's more to someone's game than stats.

 

[guitaraholic*]

Neither.

Weinhandl is a fringe player at best.

Sejna is way too small and timid. Only 12 goals in the AHL is not promising.

I don't see either of them making any meaningful impact.

I can understand why you would look at Sejna's experience last year in the NHL and, initially, in the AHL and arrive at the conclusion you did, Dukla, but way too many people who actually *saw* Sejna play after he gathered his wits at the AHL level say he has NHL level talent and, yes, top line NHL talent. He may be one of those guys that simply takes a bit longer to adjust to each new level he moves up to. The Blues are not so bereft of prospects that Sejna would be listed here at HFBoards as the Blues top prospect if he was showing *nothing* at all. Again, his play at the AHL level after a period of adjustment showed substantial upside to his game, based on firsthand reports, which I'll defer to over your opinion in this case, respectfully, unless you've seen him play as much as they have.

 

[Smith31]

As an Isles fan...Weinie is definately not a "fringe player". He has shown flashes of 1st line offensive talent and developed into a decent defensive player. As stated in other posts, Weinie's output will depend upon what line he plays on. He will be given every chance to play on a line with Yashin (with whom he clicked with two years ago for a 20 game stretch). If that works out he could very easily be a 20G 30A guy...if it doesn't he will be a 10G 20A guy plying on the 3rd line with sporadic PP time.

Personally, I would like to see Parrish paired up with Yashin. For all the talk of a need for a winger, they have never played on the same line.

 

[Kafka]

Kafka... the answer to your questoin is pretty simple... you don't put your playoff hopes on a player with 20 games of experience.

Dukla... There's more to someone's game than stats.

.... you will try to make me believe that you can however put your playoff hopes on Bryan Savage??? ;-)

A 24 guy who played well in the pre-season and that was playing well in the AHL and that is now Soooo talented should have being prefered to Savage.... and I am not talking about stats here.

 

[Kvashinator12]

In fact, according to most reports he is fairly poor Defensively QUOTE]


I have no idea at what reports you are looking at...he is quite solid in his own zone..

 

[kasper11]

Weinhandl is a very talented player with great vision and the potential to be a solid all around player. MM has stated that he wanted to give the younger guys a chance to step up, meaning Weinhandl and Papineau. I haven't seen Sejna enough to comment on him, so I can't compare, but Weinhandl has a good shot at being a second line 40-50 point winger this season.

 

[Kafka]

Anyway, it seems it is tought not to be biased... the one thing that makes me think that Weinhandl has better NHL perspectives is that, at 24, Sejna was overlooked by is team who choose Bryan Savage instead. For being from montreal, I can tell you that if Bryan Savage was a solution to bring the team in the playoffs, then Sejna's evaluation by the team was really low at that moment.

At is age, I would have expect him to be brought up, specially to wake up veterants and remind them they were about to lose a playoff spot.

 

[Puckhead]

As an Isles fan...Weinie is definately not a "fringe player". He has shown flashes of 1st line offensive talent and developed into a decent defensive player. As stated in other posts, Weinie's output will depend upon what line he plays on. He will be given every chance to play on a line with Yashin (with whom he clicked with two years ago for a 20 game stretch). If that works out he could very easily be a 20G 30A guy...if it doesn't he will be a 10G 20A guy plying on the 3rd line with sporadic PP time.

Personally, I would like to see Parrish paired up with Yashin. For all the talk of a need for a winger, they have never played on the same line.

No offense intended, but if you feel that "Wienie" has 1st line potential then the Isles are in a lot more trouble than even I thought. He is a decent player who can chip in some offense. He is quite good defensively, and I feel that he could possibly see time on the 2nd line, but needs more experience, and therefore I feel the 3rd line is where he should be right now. Sejna, does have more offensive upside, but unfortunately for the Blues, he hasn't figured out where that is at this time. He will be on the top 2 lines, but not on merit, only because there is no-one else. If you have to choose one, would probably go with Sejna simply because he will be given every opportunity to shine.

 

[degroat*]

Anyway, it seems it is tought not to be biased... the one thing that makes me think that Weinhandl has better NHL perspectives is that, at 24, Sejna was overlooked by is team who choose Bryan Savage instead. For being from montreal, I can tell you that if Bryan Savage was a solution to bring the team in the playoffs, then Sejna's evaluation by the team was really low at that moment.

At is age, I would have expect him to be brought up, specially to wake up veterants and remind them they were about to lose a playoff spot.

If you think Weinhandl is better, that's fine. But to evaluate Sejna based on a trade made by Blues management is absurd. They made a decision that he needed to finish the year and it's as simple as that. Quit reaching.

 

[Kafka]

No offense intended, but if you feel that "Wienie" has 1st line potential then the Isles are in a lot more trouble than even I thought. He is a decent player who can chip in some offense. He is quite good defensively, and I feel that he could possibly see time on the 2nd line, but needs more experience, and therefore I feel the 3rd line is where he should be right now. Sejna, does have more offensive upside, but unfortunately for the Blues, he hasn't figured out where that is at this time. He will be on the top 2 lines, but not on merit, only because there is no-one else. If you have to choose one, would probably go with Sejna simply because he will be given every opportunity to shine.

Can you tell us why the Blues didn't give him "every opportunity to shine" at the end of the last season please... cause if he is so good, I just can't understand that one.

 

[degroat*]

Can you tell us why the Blues didn't give him "every opportunity to shine" at the end of the last season please... cause if he is so good, I just can't understand that one.

I have already answered that question for you in this thread and you decided that it wasn't good enough because you're agenda here is to convince people that Weinhandl is the better player/prospect.

Using your logic the simply fact that they got rid of Savage and Demitra is evidence that the Blues think very HIGHLY of Sejna.

 

[guitaraholic*]

Can you tell us why the Blues didn't give him "every opportunity to shine" at the end of the last season please... cause if he is so good, I just can't understand that one.

I can explain it. Larry Pleau. That's pretty much it right there. Pleau, while certainly a GM who devotes a lot of time and resources to player development and drafting, believes in veterans come playoff time. Pleau had rushed Sejna to the NHL at the beginning of the season and when Sejna didn't produce as expected he sent him to the AHL. Despite consistent reports from Worcester that Sejna had really taken off as a player at that level and perhaps was ready to move up and start getting adjusted to the NHL, Pleau simply wanted no part of it. Can't say I blame him. I can, however, blame him for acquiring Brian Savage, who is awful, as his winger for Weight but that is a different discussion altogether and has less to do with Sejna than you would think.
As for Weinhandl I've never seen him play that I recall so I won't comment. I do believe that simply writing Sejna off is premature, esp. if you haven't seen him play.

 

[Kafka]

I have already answered that question for you in this thread and you decided that it wasn't good enough because you're agenda here is to convince people that Weinhandl is the better player/prospect.

Using your logic the simply fact that they got rid of Savage and Demitra is evidence that the Blues think very HIGHLY of Sejna.

No, as I said, I want arguments from both sides. Savage isn't a guy who would bring a team to the playoffs, but a 24 years old spark plug could easily.

 

[Kafka]

I can explain it. Larry Pleau. That's pretty much it right there. Pleau, while certainly a GM who devotes a lot of time and resources to player development and drafting, believes in veterans come playoff time. Pleau had rushed Sejna to the NHL at the beginning of the season and when Sejna didn't produce as expected he sent him to the AHL. Despite consistent reports from Worcester that Sejna had really taken off as a player at that level and perhaps was ready to move up and start getting adjusted to the NHL, Pleau simply wanted no part of it. Can't say I blame him. I can, however, blame him for acquiring Brian Savage, who is awful, as his winger for Weight but that is a different discussion altogether and has less to do with Sejna than you would think.
As for Weinhandl I've never seen him play that I recall so I won't comment. I do believe that simply writing Sejna off is premature, esp. if you haven't seen him play.

Thank you for your answer, I accept that one.

 

[degroat*]

No, as I said, I want arguments from both sides. Savage isn't a guy who would bring a team to the playoffs, but a 24 years old spark plug could easily.

Once again, using your logic, the simple fact that they got rid of Savage and Demitra is evidence that the Blues think very HIGHLY of Sejna.

Doesn't make much sense, now does it?

The point here is that Savage and Sejna are completely unrelated and why you cannot see this is beyond me.

 

[Kafka]

Once again, using your logic, the simple fact that they got rid of Savage and Demitra is evidence that the Blues think very HIGHLY of Sejna.

I would say it's just a good timing and that the correlation can easily be made. By the way, why is Plau still saying he will probably sign a player? ;-) Anyway, I have no question about this and don't really understand why you keep saying that St-Louis got rid of Demitra to allow Sejna a spot.

The point here is that Savage and Sejna are completely unrelated and why you cannot see this is beyond me.

Well, if you have a 24 years old guy in the AHL that is playing well and that is seen like a future 60 points per year guy and your team needs a winger to get a playoff spot, you don't trade for Bryan Savage. Someone explained that that's Plau problem, and I accept that. However, I don't find it obvious that "Plau didn't sign Demitra to make a new spot in the roster."..... both Demitra and Savage would have cost a lot to the Blues... just like Kariya last year with Anaheim. You have to remember Plau sign a defensman for 10 millions dollars... with Tkachuk and Weight in the lineup, you need to save money elsewhere.

Anyway, my question was only about why Sejna was overlooked at the end of the season, and you brang no answer to that question.

 

[guitaraholic*]

Pleau is openly (or was) talking about signing another winger because the Blues, even *if* they could or would assume Sejna was going to become a legit NHLer this year, would still be a player short of having real depth up front. The Blues, by Pleau's recent aknowledgement are two players short up front. Two skilled, offensive players. He first talked of signing two UFA's then began talking about the young kids and how one of them might fill one of the spots so they'd only sign *one* UFA winger and just recently he has *really* talked up the young kids making me think that he has been rebuffed by his chosen UFAs or is under budget constraints and now is priming the fans for not signing ANY UFA wingers. Alas.... anyway, Pleau isn't aboot to once again p i m p Sejna as the solution to the Blues scoring dearth, not after he failed to produce at the NHL level last year which made Pleau look bad.
Of course letting Demitra go had nothing at all to do with Sejna and was purely an economic decision that took into consideration Demitra's tendency to disappear during big games and his overall lack of competetiveness, or at least that's how I read Pleau's comments regarding Demitra.
Sejna can still be a solid top 6 player in the NHL, which is the bottom line as it relates to this thread. I base that statement on the opinions of numerous others including the evaluation of Blues brass.

 

[degroat*]

I would say it's just a good timing and that the correlation can easily be made.[/quote[

The correlation works bothways.

By the way, why is Plau still saying he will probably sign a player? ;-) Anyway, I have no question about this and don't really understand why you keep saying that St-Louis got rid of Demitra to allow Sejna a spot.

Pleau is still saying that he'll probably sign a player because the Blues need AT LEAST 2 wingers to fill out their scoring lines.

I have never once said that the Blues got rid of Demitra to allow Sejna a spot. What I have said is that when USING YOUR LOGIC the Blues getting rid of Demitra shows that the Blues think very highly of Sejna.

Well, if you have a 24 years old guy in the AHL that is playing well and that is seen like a future 60 points per year guy and your team needs a winger to get a playoff spot, you don't trade for Bryan Savage. Someone explained that that's Pleau problem, and I accept that. However, I don't find it obvious that "Plau didn't sign Demitra to make a new spot in the roster."..... both Demitra and Savage would have cost a lot to the Blues... just like Kariya last year with Anaheim. You have to remember Plau sign a defensman for 10 millions dollars... with Tkachuk and Weight in the lineup, you need to save money elsewhere.

Anyway, my question was only about why Sejna was overlooked at the end of the season, and you brang no answer to that question.

I did answer that question and once again, you chose to ignore my response because your agenda was to get everything to say that Weinhendl is better. Here's that response for you:

"you don't put your playoff hopes on a player with 20 games of experience."

That's fine if you don't like Savage... I'm not a big fan of his either. What I don't understand is why you're having trouble understanding why a GM whose job is on the line would go with a veteran that's a consistant 20 goal scorer over a guy with 20 mediocre games under his belt.

 

[Kafka]

Pleau is openly (or was) talking about signing another winger because the Blues, even *if* they could or would assume Sejna was going to become a legit NHLer this year, would still be a player short of having real depth up front. The Blues, by Pleau's recent aknowledgement are two players short up front. Two skilled, offensive players. He first talked of signing two UFA's then began talking about the young kids and how one of them might fill one of the spots so they'd only sign *one* UFA winger and just recently he has *really* talked up the young kids making me think that he has been rebuffed by his chosen UFAs or is under budget constraints and now is priming the fans for not signing ANY UFA wingers. Alas....

It may just be that he uses the medias to negociate... if he says in the medias that he will count on good young players instead of signing a vet, then it lowers the UFA power to sign with the club.

Of course letting Demitra go had nothing at all to do with Sejna and was purely an economic decision that took into consideration Demitra's tendency to disappear during big games and his overall lack of competetiveness, or at least that's how I read Pleau's comments regarding Demitra.
Sejna can still be a solid top 6 player in the NHL, which is the bottom line as it relates to this thread. I base that statement on the opinions of numerous others including the evaluation of Blues brass.

I think too that Sejna will has his chance has a top 6 player in the NHL, just like Weinhandl. However, only cause of how I see things going, I would pick Weinhandl over Sejna just cause he has proven more at this point in the NHL.