Pre-Game Talk: Week to Move (ANH, SJ, NYR)

rmthomson21

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Is it really a bad thing if Greer only develops into a disruptive, defensively responsible, bottom 6 forward with some jam? You need these guys.

Of course not - but if there's still some chance that he turns into a middle six guy instead of being limited to a bottom six role, and he's not adding a ton by being on the NHL roster right now, doesn't it make sense to just see if it works out or not?

IMO put him in the A for the rest of the year, see what happens - next year is when we'll really know for sure what he's gonna bring to the table in that case.
 

Pokecheque

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Well you can't just throw guys out there and say "okay guys, figure it out." They have to be put into a position to succeed, and not every player is going to go from AHL scorer to NHL grinder seamlessly. Greer is struggling more than most, and as I've said he's had a few different linemates who have had their own struggles.
 

JoemAvs

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Jul 2, 2011
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For how much hype Greer got last year in his short stint with the Avs and his AHL all star nod, he has been one giant disappointment for me.
He is even way less ready for the NHL than Jost IMO and I still want to send down Tyson the first chance I get because I don't really think he is ready yet.

I wouldn't even think about calling up Greer from the AHL before he significantly(!) improves his skating and works on his offensive game.
Only thing he has done this year is very much annoyed me with his tough guy antics.

Yeah he probably will never be more than a 3rd/4th line guy (which is a disappointment in itself) but honestly I don't even like him in that role. At least not now. His skating is too bad. Rather have someone else in that role that can keep up.


I remember when everyone was gushing about our great (very high) 2nd rounders recently.
Bigras, Greer, Morrison and Meloche as a sign of our way improved drafting post-Pracey.


Well folks.It is not looking good. Aside from Meloche who is on schedule (even though I had hoped for a bit more even from him), the other 3 are on the fast track to nowhere or atleast another organisation similar to their predecessors in Elliott/Siemens/Bleackley/Cohen/etc.

Thats not good. Especially given how many hits there have been in the (very) early 2nd round all around the league.

Timmins will hopefully be the one to change that for us but he was the first pick of the 2nd round and on everyones "want" list at that point given his first round pedigree. So not exactly great scouting.
And even he has still a long way to go.

That needs to be looked at. Maybe stop with the big, raw goalscoring winger type in the early 2nd round. Never have been a fan of it anyways.
 

JoemAvs

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Sorry, but what were you expecting AJG to be?

A serviceable top9 forward with some upside. Similar to Jamie McGinn maybe. The one before the bad injury.
Atleast I expected him to show some flashes of that at the NHL level.

They clearly drafted him for his raw potential. Not for him to turn into a bottom6 grinder.
 

Iceberg

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That needs to be looked at. Maybe stop with the big, raw goalscoring winger type in the early 2nd round. Never have been a fan of it anyways.

I think we are moving away from those types, i believe it was Roy who was obsessed with size.
 

Cousin Eddie

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A serviceable top9 forward with some upside. Similar to Jamie McGinn maybe. The one before the bad injury.
Atleast I expected him to show some flashes of that at the NHL level.

They clearly drafted him for his raw potential. Not for him to turn into a bottom6 grinder.

Plus isn't Roy friends with his family. I'm sure I've read that on here before.
 

henchman21

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The way I look at youth on the NHL roster (or really any roster) is that they need to make a difference if they are up and playing. It doesn't have to be big minutes all the time, but they need to find a way to consistently make a positive impact. Girard is young and at times not getting the most minutes, but he can consistently make a positive impact on the team both 5v5 and especially on the PP. You can find a way to make those players work and I don't have issues keeping those players up. On the other side you have Jost and Greer who are not really making a consistent positive impact on the team and don't bring more in their roles than a replacement player on the team... and in Greer's case, Bourque actually brings more with him being on the PK consistently. In those cases, send the player down to a level where they can make that positive impact consistently until they are ready to bring that up a level or two.
 
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Pokecheque

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A serviceable top9 forward with some upside. Similar to Jamie McGinn maybe. The one before the bad injury.
Atleast I expected him to show some flashes of that at the NHL level.

They clearly drafted him for his raw potential. Not for him to turn into a bottom6 grinder.

Well I don't think he's done developing yet so I think it's a bit premature to declare him a grinder.

And McGinn was a grinder even before the injury. He just happened to hit two incredible streaks during his time in Colorado where he was scoring at an insane pace. He's a very GOOD grinder but still a grinder. That's what I'm hoping Greer pans out as. Maybe at worst Tom Wilson, but smarter and less dirty.
 

Piestany88

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Well I don't think he's done developing yet so I think it's a bit premature to declare him a grinder.

And McGinn was a grinder even before the injury. He just happened to hit two incredible streaks during his time in Colorado where he was scoring at an insane pace. He's a very GOOD grinder but still a grinder. That's what I'm hoping Greer pans out as. Maybe at worst Tom Wilson, but smarter and less dirty.
Greer is only 21, I think he can still develop as well
 

Avs_19

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That's what I thought regarding Jost. He was fine after the hit he took but was in a lot of pain after getting hit with Girard's shot.
 

Freaky Styley

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I think Greer has looked fine:dunno:

Sure he's not lighting up the score sheet but he's been given 4th line minutes and hasn't been a liability. He's been providing energy and mixing it up/making big hits like we'd expect. I guess it all comes down to expectations. He's not going to carry a line ever, but can be a nice complimentary piece in the top 9. Once everyone is healthy, sure I'd send him back to the AHL for bigger minutes but the way he's played and the experience he's received tells me he will likely be on the opening day roster next season.

Jost has also looked a lot better in more recent games. Looks stronger, more assertive with the puck. The points will come with these guys but progress shouldn't be ignored. I've been all aboard the Jost to the AHL train from the beginning of the season, but he's been looking like a legit NHL player the last few games.
 

McMetal

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I'm not sure it's fair to say Greer hasn't done much when we've only ever seen him in the NHL in 2-3 game stretches with limited minutes with long stretches in between. Sometimes it takes a prospect a little bit to adjust to the speed of the NHL. At some point, you have to just give them some rope and see what they do with it. I'd give him a bit to see what he does with it, worst case after 10 games we'll know he's not ready and he can go down, but it will hardly destroy his development to play 10 NHL games in a row.
 

Pokecheque

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I think Greer has looked fine:dunno:

Sure he's not lighting up the score sheet but he's been given 4th line minutes and hasn't been a liability. He's been providing energy and mixing it up/making big hits like we'd expect. I guess it all comes down to expectations. He's not going to carry a line ever, but can be a nice complimentary piece in the top 9. Once everyone is healthy, sure I'd send him back to the AHL for bigger minutes but the way he's played and the experience he's received tells me he will likely be on the opening day roster next season.

Jost has also looked a lot better in more recent games. Looks stronger, more assertive with the puck. The points will come with these guys but progress shouldn't be ignored. I've been all aboard the Jost to the AHL train from the beginning of the season, but he's been looking like a legit NHL player the last few games.

Yeah I gotta agree, I'm not sure why people are hand-wringing so much about him already when his development appears IMO to be on-track.
 

tigervixxxen

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His next step in development is figuring out how to play offense. He hasn't even really figured that out in the AHL. His game needs a lot of polish and that's going to develop a lot more in the AHL than it would in the NHL. At least down there he can get some top 6 minutes, play with other skilled players and even get some PP time.

Greer scored 4 points in his final 17 AHL games last year. He suffered greatly without Compher. I mean he only had 38 points total in 63 games. He isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut in that league. He has rebounded slightly from his finish to last year but still has just 10 points in 17 games. I know the team is bad, but that's not good AHL production. Especially for a guy we hope can translate some offense to the NHL in the future.

I don't think Greer will have any issue carving out a bottom 6 role in the NHL for a long time. But if we keep him in the NHL now that pretty much assures that a bottom 6 role will be all he carves out. Aside from his skating which is very bad but is more of an offseason thing, he needs to work on the game when the puck is on his stick. It's very raw. It makes much more sense for him to work on that at a level he can actually accomplish some of those things. In the NHL he's simply far worse than everybody on the ice in that regard. He isn't going to improve because he isn't going to get the puck on his stick.

I get the waiver thing and all that but waiver exemption is still some time away. As for the ELC, you don't worry about contract issues for players who simply aren't good enough to play in the NHL. If his ELC runs out while he's in the AHL that's ok. He can be signed again.

You have a great sight for our prospects. Your more knowledgeable than anyone I know and I trust your opinion deeply. But I have a feeling you think Greer is better than what he actually is right now.

In bringing up his last year, everyone forgets Compher went a whole month with producing nothing too before his callup. 10 points in 17 games is pretty good production for the AHL and especially if you see how he scored those points, they were all difference makers. Go look up how well guys like Agozzino has done over the last month or two to see how that compares. I'm seeing things in his game in the AHL that he's ready for the next step. The AHL isn't going to increase his skill level, it's going to give him confidence with the puck at that level. He finally has a ton of confidence with it there, it's time to find his confidence with it at the NHL level. This is still a team and a roster in transition, they are all finding their games, he doesn't have to be fully formed to get time there. He's played 80 AHL games and another 16 in the NHL. That's nearly 100 games pro, that's when guys are getting ready to make the transition.

I'm not sure anyone saw the Dallas game where Greer got a primary assist, had the third assist on MacK's goal and should have had another primary assist if Yak could find the back of the net these days. That's the kind of game he can play at the NHL level right now and be effective.

The low TOI is not ideal but it wouldn't last forever. I know he's not staying when everyone is healthy and Bourque is the 13th forward and fits that role well. But the whole he should be in the AHL is not true, he should be in the NHL when there's room for him.
 
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dahrougem2

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Not all prospects are going to be the same development wise in terms of how many pro games it takes to make the transition. For someone that just turned 21 in December, I think there's still a ways to go for Greer to become an NHL regular. First things first, work on his skating all Summer long.
 
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CobraAcesS

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In bringing up his last year, everyone forgets Compher went a whole month with producing nothing too before his callup. 10 points in 17 games is pretty good production for the AHL and especially if you see how he scored those points, they were all difference makers. Go look up how well guys like Agozzino has done over the last month or two to see how that compares. I'm seeing things in his game in the AHL that he's ready for the next step. The AHL isn't going to increase his skill level, it's going to give him confidence with the puck at that level. He finally has a ton of confidence with it there, it's time to find his confidence with it at the NHL level. This is still a team and a roster in transition, they are all finding their games, he doesn't have to be fully formed to get time there. He's played 80 AHL games and another 16 in the NHL. That's nearly 100 games pro, that's when guys are getting ready to make the transition.

I'm not sure anyone saw the Dallas game where Greer got a primary assist, had the third assist on MacK's goal and should have had another primary assist if Yak could find the back of the net these days. That's the kind of game he can play at the NHL level right now and be effective.

The low TOI is not ideal but it wouldn't last forever. I know he's not staying when everyone is healthy and Bourque is the 13th forward and fits that role well. But the whole he should be in the AHL is not true, he should be in the NHL when there's room for him.

Yeah I don't agree with the people ripping on his awareness and puck skill at the NHL level. I personally would like to see him get a step faster though. When the puck is already on the boards he has good strength and heads up awareness in transition, but hes not often first to the puck right now. I think that is hindering his ability to contribute offensively at times in a way that people are really going to take notice.

I feel you though because I was harping on those plays throughout that GDT despite people making the same comments we're seeing right here. Hes already shown the ability to contribute to his lines success. They were also the only line making much happen through the first two periods of the game after the bye week despite Yaks stupidity I guess. They opened the scoring as a direct result of Greer's awareness, and it was glossed over fairly quickly.
 

Avs71

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I’m excited to see Barrie inserted back into the Avs line up soon. It will be interesting to see if they can keep rolling like a well oiled machine, but add one more dangerous weapon to the back end.

I hope Girard stays on the first power play unit though. I imagine Lindholm will be coming out of the lineup, and Barberio will go to the third pairing.

If Barberio is the one to have his ice taken away, it should still be doable for EJ to get his 26 minutes, Zads/Nemeth to get 20-23, and Barrie to get around 21 minutes. I don’t think those big three defencemen should lose ice time to Barrie coming back, given the results of the team with them playing big minutes.
 

forsbergavs32

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I’m excited to see Barrie inserted back into the Avs line up soon. It will be interesting to see if they can keep rolling like a well oiled machine, but add one more dangerous weapon to the back end.

I hope Girard stays on the first power play unit though. I imagine Lindholm will be coming out of the lineup, and Barberio will go to the third pairing.

If Barberio is the one to have his ice taken away, it should still be doable for EJ to get his 26 minutes, Zads/Nemeth to get 20-23, and Barrie to get around 21 minutes. I don’t think those big three defencemen should lose ice time to Barrie coming back, given the results of the team with them playing big minutes.

I also hope they keep Girard on that 1st PP unit as well.
 

Cousin Eddie

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I can't say I'm not excited for when Barrie comes back. I just hope he isn't put back on the top PP unit. Keep Sammy there (he's simply better in that regard) and stick Barrie on the 2nd unit.

ZJ
Nemeth-Barrie
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Is it bad that I'd like to cheaply acquire Cody Ceci? I think he'd be a great partner for Sammy on the third pairing. Barbario + Ottawa's 3rd for Ceci!
 

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