Weegar v Toews

[Stars27]

Both emerging top defensemen....who would you rather have?

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[Cousin Eddie]

Ironically the two defenseman Sakic was after last offseason.

I think it’s Toews solely because he’s played at a legit #1 caliber defenseman this year but Weegar is a stud too.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I'm a massive Weegar fan but Toews ain't too shabby too... but I'm taking Weegar

 

[Gurglesons]

Weegar easily.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think Weegar might be a little better. Close though.

 

[violaswallet]

Very different strengths: Toews is a good bit more offensive; Weegar is a stud 2-way guy.

Don't know why we'd want to compare them more...they play very different roles for their respective teams

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Very different strengths: Toews is a good bit more offensive; Weegar is a stud 2-way guy.

Don't know why we'd want to compare them more...they play very different roles for their respective teams

I think they play pretty similar roles. Toews leads all Avalanche defenseman in defensive zone faceoff starts. He leads them in minutes played per game. He’s second in PK minutes this year (he has more Pk minutes than Weegar in fewer games played). Toews actually plays a heavy defensive role for Colorado. More so than any other defenseman by a pretty considerable margin. He just has good offensive skills too and plays with a lot of talent.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think they play pretty similar roles. Toews leads all Avalanche defenseman in defensive zone faceoff starts. He leads them in minutes played per game. He’s second in PK minutes this year (he has more Pk minutes than Weegar in fewer games played). Toews actually plays a heavy defensive role for Colorado. More so than any other defenseman by a pretty considerable margin. He just has good offensive skills too and plays with a lot of talent.

I wouldn’t say this is true.

He has essentially the same O-zone start % as Makar and Girard. Unless you’re talking about PK’ing, because he and Graves play on the top PK unit.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I wouldn’t say this is true.

He has essentially the same O-zone start % as Makar and Girard. Unless you’re talking about PK’ing, because he and Graves play on the top PK unit.

What does offensive starts have to do with defensive usage? Starting in the offensive zone doesn’t mean you don’t play defensive minutes. Toews as I pointed out has more defensive zone faceoff starts than any other Avalanche defenseman. Toews plays more minutes than any avalanche D, plays tougher competition than any Avs D and starts more defensive face offs than any Avalanche D.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

What does offensive starts have to do with defensive usage? Starting in the offensive zone doesn’t mean you don’t play defensive minutes. Toews as I pointed out has more defensive zone faceoff starts than any other Avalanche defenseman. Toews plays more minutes than any avalanche D, plays tougher competition than any Avs D and starts more defensive face offs than any Avalanche D.

I think saying he’s in a more defensive role than everyone else by a considerable margin is overstating it when he starts 63% of his possessions in the O-zone.

He generally plays with Makar, or Girard. His role isn’t that much different then them other than PK’ing.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I think saying he’s in a more defensive role than everyone else by a considerable margin is overstating it when he starts 63% of his possessions in the O-zone.

He generally plays with Makar, or Girard. His role isn’t that much different other than PK’ing.

Again why are you talking about offensive starts lol? The Avalanche play 60% of the game in the offensive zone and Toews is a skilled player. He’s obviously going to get plenty of starts there. How does that in any capacity take away what he does defensively? I’m literally providing you with stats to show he starts in the defensive zone more than anyone. I don’t care if he starts in the offensive zone more than anybody. He starts more in the D zone than anybody. That’s the discussion I was into. Defensive usage.

I’d understand if the offensive starts took away the defensive starts but they don’t. He’s used to start in the D zone more than anyone and I don’t understand how his number of offensive zone starts can somehow be used as an argument to take them away lol.

If a player takes a faceoff in the offensive zone It doesn’t suddenly make him used any less defensively if he’s still being used more defensively than anyone else.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Again why are you talking about offensive starts lol? The Avalanche play 60% of the game in the offensive zone and Toews is a skilled player. He’s obviously going to get plenty of starts there. How does that in any capacity take away what he does defensively? I’m literally providing you with stats to show he starts in the defensive zone more than anyone. I don’t care if he starts in the offensive zone more than anybody. He starts more in the D zone than anybody. That’s the discussion I was into. Defensive usage.

I’d understand if the offensive starts took away the defensive starts but they don’t. He’s used to start in the D zone more than anyone and I don’t understand how his number of offensive zone starts can somehow be used as an argument to take them away lol.

Those starts are up from when Makar was injured. When the Avs are healthy they roll their top-3 D pretty evenly.

It’s not like Toews is getting all the D zone starts and he’s partnered with Ryan Graves the whole time. He plays with Makar and Girard. So, I’m not sure how it’s him taking on this heavy defensive role by himself.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Those starts are up from when Makar was injured. When the Avs are healthy they roll their top-3 D pretty evenly.

It’s not like Toews is getting all the D zone starts and he’s partnered with Ryan Graves the whole time. He plays with Makar and Girard.

The stats aren’t just from Makar being injured. It’s all season. If you break it down per game it’s still higher than everyone else.

He has more 5v5 defensive zone faceoff starts than any Avalanche defenseman this year.

He has more 5v5 defensive zone faceoff starts per game than any other Avalanche defenseman this year.

Never said anything about who his partners are. Simply explaining he starts there more than anyone else all while playing more minutes than anyone else.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The stats aren’t just from Makar being injured. It’s all season. If you break it down per game it’s still higher than everyone else.

He has more 5v5 defensive zone faceoff starts than any Avalanche defenseman this year.

He has more 5v5 defensive zone faceoff starts per game than any other Avalanche defenseman this year.

Never said anything about who his partners are. Simply explaining he starts there more than anyone else all while playing more minutes than anyone else.

By how much though?

When you say considerable margin you make it sound like he’s playing 5 more minutes 5v5 than every other defenceman per game and that he starts primarily in the D zone.

He plays a minute more than Girard and 30 seconds more than Makar, which is obviously inflated by the very high TOI he had when they had all the injuries.

He’s used in a slightly more defensive role than those other guys, not a considerable more defensive role.

 

[Stars27]

Sooooo, would you rather have Weegar or Toews...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

By how much though?

When you say considerable margin you make it sound like he’s playing 5 more minutes 5v5 than every other defenceman per game and that he starts primarily in the D zone.

He plays a minute more than Girard and 30 seconds more than Makar, which is obviously inflated by the very high TOI he had when they had all the injuries.

He’s used in a slightly more defensive role than those other guys, not a considerable more defensive role.

Not enough for it to be a considerable margin just 5v5 (Toews is 4.97 per while Girard is next closest at 4.79 per). But when you factor in all situations it’s not even close. Toews has 349 defensive zone faceoff starts this year. Next closest to him is Graves at 332. Next to him is Girard at 236. Toews has played less games than both.

There is no argument for anybody but Devon Toews as the heaviest lifting Avalanche defenseman from a defensive usage perspective.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Not enough to consider it a considerable margin just 5v5. But when you factor in PK he does. Toews has 349 defensive zone faceoff starts this year. Next closest to him is Graves at 332. Next to him is Girard at 236. Toews has played less games than both.

Gotcha. Yeah, if you’re factoring in PK, I can understand what you’re talking about.

 

[majormajor]

I've seen 5-10 games for each team this year and I was more drawn to Weegar. He seemed solid defensively and very intense in puck battles. I might slightly prefer Toews with the puck.