We were never going to go far with this D-Core

[v4karuna]

I think the leafs should trade Nylander for D.

Someone who can play heavy minutes and be a physical presence out there.

Rielly - X
Muzzin - Dermott
Sandin - X

 

[Legion34]

Not one of tonight’s 3 goals was the fault of the D

wellll barrie actually scored the winner.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

It’s much worse than I think many people realized (I know plenty of people did though). Rielly and Muzzin are both top pairing capable defensemen, but after them that’s it. Dermott has stagnated and doesn’t look like he’s going to get any better. Holl has his moments but looks like he’s best suited as a #5. Ceci is a joke but we figured that coming in to the season. Barrie was pathetic and that trade was a terrible misjudgements by Dubas. Even if Kerfoot becomes/continues to be a reliable 3rd line centre who can PK, the whole point of trading Kadri was to shore up the defence. What a f***ing failure that was. Barrie was barely a bottom pairing guy at the end of it all.

Big changes need to be made, and likely one of Marner or Nylander will have to be sacrificed to make it happen. Dermott and Holl aren’t reliable in the top four, and while Sandin and Liljegren are promising playing them in this environment will see them get slaughtered and ruined.

 

[IrishInOntario]

People that are waiting on Liljegren and Sandin to be the kind of difference makers Toronto needs, are going to be very, very disappointed.

Where our defense core suffers the most is in the playoffs and their inability to break the cycle, play below the faceoff circle, clog shooting lanes and take a hit, while executing a proper pass. That's because outside of Reilly and Muzzin, they have 4 guys who are either small and get ragdolled, or are big, but not especially tough and have complete stone hands.

Toronto needs a 6'3, 210+lb first pairing RHD that is tough and mobile, to pair with Reilly, in the worst way. They then need a guy who is tough as nails and can really shoot the puck to play on the second pairing with Muzzin, as the shutdown tandem. We have one of the worst shooting defense cores in the league. They are absolutely no threat from the point. They need to trade a winger for a legitimate stud, 1st pairing guy and sign Radko Gudas as a free agent.

Darnell Nurse is discruntled in Edmonton. I'd try to package a winger for him and I'd happily give up either Sandin or Liljegren in the process and Dermott as well. I know he's left handed, but I'd still take him. 6'4, 221lbs, offensively gifted and mobile.

I'd then sign Radko Gudas as a Free agent. He's the ideal second pairing partner for Muzzin. They'd be miserable to play against.

Reilly / Nurse
Muzzin / Gudas
Lehtonen / Holl

You need to have at least one excellent pairing and if you can get a big, strong, playoff capable to 4 (like the one above) you sacrifice all of the small defensemen and winger depth you have to get it done.

Between Nylander, Kapanen, Mikheyev, Johnson, Sandin, Liljegren and picks you could pry one of Nurse out of Edmonton or Dumba out of Minnesota and create some cap space to sign Gudas.

 

[biotk]

That shouldn't be the plan. We're gonna rely on a couple more small sub-200 pound puck-moving "specialists" to round out our defense core?

Look at the defense that just fed the Leafs their lunch tonight. All 220 pound mean f***ers.

Well the most traded for D (by a massive margin) by Leafs' fans on capfriendly over the past several days has been Ryan Ellis. I am a big fan of Ryan Ellis, but he is 5' 10" 180 lbs, so it baffles my mind that anyone thinks that he is the solution to the Leafs D problems.

The Leafs' real problem is that unless there are major trades coming they need D like Dermott, Liljegren and Sandin to step up and they have done nothing to help prepare any of them to do so.

Most people have the idea that Dermott will play on the right side. Good thing the Leafs' used him on the right side zero times this season. His main partners over the past 2 seasons have been (in order): Oz, Holl, Barrie, Ceci, Marincin, Gardiner. So which one of the D would you be comfortable mentoring Dermott into a successful top-4 role? Madness.

Sandin and Liljegren. Good luck having either of them reach anything close to their potential on this team - getting the same massively sheltered 3rd pairing minutes with completely inappropriate partners. I hope Sandin gets traded.

They wasted a year with Barrie and Ceci thinking that those two made the team competitive. Instead they could have been preparing for the future - playing Dermott with either Rielly or Muzzin. Having a big, tough as nails 3rd pairing D to play with Sandin and/or Liljegren. Probably would have ended up in the exact same place this playoffs in the end, but they would have been in a better spot to succeed going forward.

If the Leafs are not going to put the effort into developing Dermott into a top-4 D on the right - trade him.

If the Leafs are not going to put the effort into getting a proper partner for Sandin to play with in the NHL - trade him.

If the Leafs are not going to put the effort into getting a proper partner for Liljegren to play with in the NHL - trade him.

My D next year:

Rielly - Ekblad
Muzzin - Holl or Dermott (the other is traded)

Sandin - Vet, big, mean f***er who is defensively sound
or
Vet, big, mean f***er who is defensively sound - Liljegren (either Sandin or Liljegren is traded)

Lehtonen as a #7 - because none of us have any idea if he can play, and being successful putting up points as a D in the KHL is meaningless.

 

[Puckstuff]

The defence this playoffs was actually good or at least much improved. In fact we were great defensively in the final game. We had some bad luck with the puck off of Barrie into the net and then in the final goal - Andersen should have had it, but that was a horrible line change.
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How does OP hate on Justin Holl? Are you even watching the game? He was great. Complete steal at his price tag. Jake Muzzin is fine as a second pair LD. He brings toughness. Dermott was very, very good all series, just a great playoffs for him. Ceci was ok, he wasn't that noticeable and that's a good thing - your 5th best defensmen isn't suppose to be turning heads.
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Barrie needs to go. He's not very good at anything. He isn't being used as a P.P weapon. He's useless to us.
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I really like the guys that should be our 2nd and third pair (Muzzin, Holl, Ceci, Dermott) as long as they aren't on the top pair.
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But Rielly is a very flawed #1 d-man and we don't have a top shutdown RHD. Rielly needs to stop shooting into the shin pads of other teams (which results in turning the puck over and losing possession for our team) and he needs to stop shooting it right into the middle of the chest of the goalie every time!! Rielly can skate circles around the whole team all he wants, but he's just not clinical at all. Not a true #1 at all. He's not an elite scorer, he's not an elite defender. Everyone knows our big need is an elite shutdown #1 pair RD.
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Obviously if we had a top pair like Carlson and Parayko the other guys would look amazing in their roles and no one would be talking about them... but people are searching for problems. The problem is we don't have a #1 shutdown D or an elite D that can finish and score (Jones, Josi, type)
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Keep Holl, Muzzin, Dermott and maybe even Ceci as a bottom pair guy if we can get him cheap (RD are very hard to come by and he would be a decent 6th defensmen if we can get him at around 3 million) then we just need to find a way to fix the top pair

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Well the most traded for D (by a massive margin) by Leafs' fans on capfriendly over the past several days has been Ryan Ellis. I am a big fan of Ryan Ellis, but he is 5' 10" 180 lbs, so it baffles my mind that anyone thinks that he is the solution to the Leafs D problems.

The Leafs' real problem is that unless there are major trades coming they need D like Dermott, Liljegren and Sandin to step up and they have done nothing to help prepare any of them to do so.

Most people have the idea that Dermott will play on the right side. Good thing the Leafs' used him on the right side zero times this season. His main partners over the past 2 seasons have been (in order): Oz, Holl, Barrie, Ceci, Marincin, Gardiner. So which one of the D would you be comfortable mentoring Dermott into a successful top-4 role? Madness.

Sandin and Liljegren. Good luck having either of them reach anything close to their potential on this team - getting the same massively sheltered 3rd pairing minutes with completely inappropriate partners. I hope Sandin gets traded.

so you're basically saying this D needs a complete overhaul? Can't say I disagree, except on the trading Sandin part.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Blue Jackets had superior defence and goaltending this series and they are through.

Yes, this needs to be addressed.

 

[Nineteen67]

There is a reason they have been ~ 500 team for 24 months.

 

[biotk]

so you're basically saying this D needs a complete overhaul? Can't say I disagree, except on the trading Sandin part.

I added a bit to my post.

I would hate to see Sandin go but if they are not going to develop him properly then I want him to go to a team that will.

And, yes in my mind the team would have a complete overhaul. Barrie and Ceci gone of course and - with one of Holl or Dermott getting traded and one of Sandin - Liljegren getting traded.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I don't see enough people giving flack to Kapanen and Soup. Where the hell were they in this series? Both were absolute zeros. Also taking Robertson out for a Johnsson who hadn't played in six months in an Elim game was stupid. Whoever came up with that idea has some 'splainin to do

 

[biotk]

I don't see enough people giving flack to Kapanen and Soup. Where the hell were they in this series? Both were absolute zeros. Also taking Robertson out for a Johnsson who hadn't played in six months in an Elim game was stupid. Whoever came up with that idea has some 'splainin to do

I expected Johnsson to play if it was at all possible. Boosts his trade value and Johnsson vs Robertson was not going to make a difference in the series.

 

[Canadian Game]

We can crap on the D but it wasn't as terrible as I expected. The offence is what lost Leafs the series. Save for game 2 and last few minutes of game 4, they weren't the x-factor they were supposed to be. We lost to a team that has ONE playoff series win in their franchise history... let that sink in.

I think underestimating Columbus was part of the issue for the Leafs, Tampa Bay last year, and fans of both teams. It’s easy to write Columbus off because of their history. But teams evolve and so does history. They are young, hungry, and have something to prove. Last year people predicted Tampa to sweep Columbus but it was 4-0 Columbus. This year people expected this series to be a cakewalk and now there’s several discussions about how Columbus outplayed and out coached Toronto, while we pick apart all of the problems the Leafs need to fix.

Overall I think they have a good, young, well-rounded team. They can score (even without Panarin and Duchene), are good at defending and mostly keeping play to the perimeter in their end, they have 2 elite D who can eat minutes, defend, and produce offensively, they have good goaltending, and they have speed and play with grit.

The Leafs cannot check all of those boxes, and it showed. Now it’s back to the drawing board for the Leafs (again!) while the underestimated Blue Jackets move on to the quarterfinals in a rematch versus Tampa Bay.

 

[Tak7]

I don't see enough people giving flack to Kapanen and Soup. Where the hell were they in this series? Both were absolute zeros. Also taking Robertson out for a Johnsson who hadn't played in six months in an Elim game was stupid. Whoever came up with that idea has some 'splainin to do

After having to deal with the blunt stubbornness of Babcock for as long as we did, I actually thought it was refreshing that Keefe was brave with his lineup decisions - not just Johnsson, but keeping 16-91-34 together.

It didn't work though, and ended up playing perfectly into Columbus' hands.

Much like Toronto's inexperienced GM, the inexperienced coach is going to be learning on the spot.

 

[thusk]

Rielly is a solid d but he need help, rielly was at his best when he was playing with hainsey. He need a defensive d playing with!!! Will be the same thing with sandin

Chris tanev is probably the best fit this off season for morgan rielly

Holl as 6th def is perfect but please no in a top 4.

Rielly-tanev
Muzzin- ?? lehtonen
Sandin-holl

 

[migi]

Win draft. Sign Pietrangelo. Trade Nylander and Kapanen for prospects/picks and compete Lafreniere ELC time.

 

[Rielly4]

Sandin for Severson?

 

[Dave92]

At least now the need for good defense in the NHL has been confirmed, the past 100 years was too small a sample size Dubas had to see it first hand twice.

 

[TakeTheBody]

The future will be determined at 6pm today. As far as trades go. If Marner is worth much more than Willy I'd rather trade Marner and get the stud defenseman needed.

Barrie experiment failed. When Naz was traded the Leafs needed a two for one deal because of the signings made. Nice try, didn't work.

I think the mindset on this team needs attention. Hopefully it's just being young. But it seems they play as well as they have too. They need to play with disdain. Anger, i hope everyone rips on them and they use it to bond as a team.

Most importantly I like Dubas, BUT he needs to see the best teams in this league can win by playing pretty, or playing ugly. The Leafs can't win playing ugly. That needs to change starting this summer.

 

[Gabriel426]

The team could not score, period.
Not saying Defense is good as they need to fix the Dcorps.
I will go with Dermott and Holl as bottom pairing and actually fix two solid stay at home Dman with Reilly and Muzz.

 

[Lenovs]

d-corps needs attention, no question. but comparing the cap hit with 4 forwards adding up to 40 mil offense should've made the difference. it's not we have invested nearly half of our cap hit in 1/3-1/4 of our defensemen, have we.

 

[Gnome17]

Its a scary thing when the defence is supposed to be the weak point (and I think it is dont get me wrong), the goaltender gives up softies in important game, and the offense which is supposed to be the strong point isnt performing either.

How did Ceci end up getting 4.5m anyways? That is kind of ludacris. I dont think hes as bad as some people say but I would peg him as a 2m guy.

 

[Beyonder91]

The team could not score, period.
Not saying Defense is good as they need to fix the Dcorps.
I will go with Dermott and Holl as bottom pairing and actually fix two solid stay at home Dman with Reilly and Muzz.

They couldn't score this series... no question. Didn't get any breaks and we didn't capitalize on our numerous chances. If we play Columbus another 5-game series and we could easily blow them out of the building. I'm not worried about the offence.

Our D was bad... we got lucky A LOT more pucks didn't end up in our net. Freddy bailed out our D so many times I lost count... then he of course let in his back breaking softy. Columbus also had a bunch of goal posts.

There's no question it's the D that needs to be fixed going foward. Nylander is our best piece from a trade value perspective to move to address the issue.

 

[Durrr]

Not one of tonight’s 3 goals was the fault of the D

It's true, one fluke redirect, one team bad change and soft let in from Andy and an empty net.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Holl looked good, actually brings some physicality which is severely lacking. Barrie gets absolutely bundled by Jenner and no one does anything? Color me shocked.

Hard to win games when you don't score. See y'all next year.