BK
"Goalie Apologist"
Gus and Forsling are later picks and more projects. Murphy is already a 4/5. Joker, Boqvist, and Mitchell are top flight prospects. Different situations.
We have the Cap room!! 2019-20 UFA Targets??
- Thread starter AmericanDream
- Start date
Gus and Forsling are later picks and more projects. Murphy is already a 4/5. Joker, Boqvist, and Mitchell are top flight prospects. Different situations.
The more the merrier. Cheap young DMen who can play are gold in the NHL. We can always flip them for very skilled forwards.
IMO, this is Bowman's moneyball. Collect and develop the valued NHL assets. You can always trade some of them to fill out the roster.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Absolutely, keep bringing in young D-men. They’re usually incredibly valuable in trades.
But this conversation is about whether you should count on multiple d-men at 19, 20, and 21 years old to play in your top-4.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
if they are ready, why not?
and one of them at 19 is already proving he can do it..
over the next 1-2 years, I am fairly confident two more of these kids can get there as well..I understand the concern of not rushing them and making sure we have enough veteran NHLers here..all I am saying is we have enough guys under contract as is to shield whatever young kids we bring up next year - do you not think Boqvist can play in our top 6 next year? and this team not be better because of it?
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
I’m not sure what Boqvist will or will not be able to do next year. I’m saying counting on him stepping in as a top-4 d-man next season could be a really big mistake.
We’re already potentially pissing away this year of our core because Stan didn’t improve the D, and that’s after already wasting last year. We can’t afford to waste another 1-2 years of these core guys.
If Boqvist isn’t a top-pairing for three more years, then it may be too late to compete if Toews and Kane are already declining.
And ya, Jokiharju looks fine (which is better than you would expect out of a late 1st guy at 19, so not shitting on him), but we need better than just fine and replacement level in order to complete. I don’t think it’s fair to expect the moon of these young guys right now.
bwana63
carter blanche
Bowman needs to re-sign Kruger. 2 years, $2M/per. Only half joking. This is assuming Kruger stays healthy and regains his 2015 form. Has to stay out of the box, obviously.
But, seriously, Kampf looks like he can take the reins and damn well at that.
But, seriously, Kampf looks like he can take the reins and damn well at that.
Hattrick Kane
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2018
- 8,922
- 12,970
Give Jokiharju the full year, I’m willing to bet he ends up looking more than fine by the end of the year. It’s not like Heiskanen or Dahlin are lighting it up either. Expect rookie mistakes, but he’s well on track to take an even bigger role next year.
Then bring Boqvist up next year and give him a Joker like role. Boqvist could have been given a shot at the roster this year, but it’s hard having two rookie defensemen on the roster so I agree with giving him another year. It’s actually falling into place for the defense in the next few years, the forward depth now becomes an issue.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
I don't think there is anything wrong with that, and essentially I think many of us are on a similar page here. Nobody is assuming or wants to rush them, but we also don't want horrible dead weight contracts in front of these kids which can prevent them from coming up and even worse can in fact lead to them getting moved to escape a bad cap situation...none of us want to see that again.
My expectations are pretty much this -
I thought we would get Joker in our top 4 year - that has happened, so far, and at worse he stays up all year long in the top 6.
I think next year we get Boqvist to step in and be a solid #4/5 right out the gate...shield him with minutes, pair him with someone that can reign him in a bit, but I expect him on this team like Joker for this season. I don't think that is that bad of an expectation.
The following season (2020-21) I expect Ian Mitchell up here in a similar fashion to Boqvist...so in all honesty, we are adding 1 top young dman each year for the next 3 years including this season with Joker...that seems like progress and drafting well, nothing rushed.
we still have Keith, Seabs, and Murphy under contract up to that last season so the defense will still have its veteran players.
I am not sure I agree with wasting the remaining best years of Kane, Toews, etc because we add talented kids...Joker sure as hell looks like the 2nd best dman we have right now, and if anything it is motivating this group and not hurting it..
I understand your concerns, and we have no clue how the future holds, I just think these 3 can step in and not only do the job but elevate the team as well...Can always add another veteran dman at any point over the next 2 years if we need to as well..
Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
- 3,905
- 2,825
Call me crazy, but I’d prefer mark stone over the rest of the list except panarin. I’d include panarin too if he costs more than a million more.
Someone said silver berg is a poor man’s hossa. Mark stone is the closest thing you can get to blackhawks aged hossa. You can improve your team defense with mark stone too, not just a dman.
Someone said silver berg is a poor man’s hossa. Mark stone is the closest thing you can get to blackhawks aged hossa. You can improve your team defense with mark stone too, not just a dman.
bwana63
carter blanche
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Right, it’s not a good idea to expect 19 and 20 year old defensemen to light it up. It happens seldomly.
You could see Boqvist is extremely skilled. However, that kid needs to get a LOT stronger. His ceiling is immense ... but it might take more time to get there. He's just not strong enough yet.
Joker is bigger ... but even then he's still having issues with physicality. My hope is when Joker gets stronger next year, he'll be a legit stand alone top 4 DMen. Boqvist might need another year.
Remember DMen take far longer to develop than forwards. The fact Joker is playing with Keith at 19 years old is a rarity ... and not a given.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
I get it all. I have no problem developing them that way, but we shouldn’t be a developing team right now.
These guys shouldn’t be up unless they’re ready to make an impact.
Going after guys like de Haan, Karlsson, or Faulk wouldn’t have stopped Boqvist from becoming an elite d-man in 4 years.
We should remain as competitive as possible while developing these d-men. We have the cap space, we don’t need to rely on ELCs on defense at the moment.
BobbyJet
I am Canadian
It is pretty obvious that Hawks are rushing Joker by throwing him to the wolves. So far he has handled it quite well but will that last? I hope so but he has been guilty a few times of shying away from the physicality which tends to amp up as the RS progresses.
As for Boqvist and the other prospects, it's going to take more than a year or two for these guys to be ready.
Hattrick Kane
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2018
- 8,922
- 12,970
I don’t like that saying “thrown to the wolves” like Joker doesn’t stand a chance. I’d prefer sink or swim, and right now he’s swimming.
I’m not worried about later in the season for him, because he’s gaining more experience every game, he’s gonna learn how to handle it, and I’ve seen him use his body aggressively a couple times the past few games. I don’t think he was gifted a spot on this roster, he earned it. There’s only so long you can baby a defenseman before they have to do it by themselves. In my opinion, Joker playing these quality minutes now only helps him get better in the long run.
He’s learning, and learning from one of the best at that, and I’m happy with his progress, considering he was 27th overall a year ago.
bwana63
carter blanche
It might. Thing is, that's literally impossible to know right now. Boqvist has ~85% of this season left to make big strides and should make good progress physically during the off season. Definitely has a very large carrot in front of him.
Mitchell and Beaudin are on the 2 year plan, presumably.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
most top college players do not stay for more than two years unless they are likely going to sign elsewhere, are going to an IVY school like Hayden, or were an early birthdate that accelerated schooling.
Mitchell will be turning pro this season, it will not take him more than two years to get here.
Krys is in his 3rd season, but he needed that extra development after a freshman year where he was not getting a lot of ice time. Mitchell was the opposite, he was on the #1 pair from day 1.
Mitchell will be turning pro this season, it will not take him more than two years to get here.
Krys is in his 3rd season, but he needed that extra development after a freshman year where he was not getting a lot of ice time. Mitchell was the opposite, he was on the #1 pair from day 1.
Kevin Musto
Hard for Bedard
- Feb 16, 2018
- 20,938
- 27,230
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
Mitchell will make the jump at the end of the season imo.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
LordKOTL
Abuse of Officials
With respect to Joker, the standout about his play is that he, aside from some rookie brainfarts, Has been solid on the backend--in face more solid than his PDX days--and to add a caveat, a lot of the Joker Rookie brain-farts this year have been made by Keith and Seabrook this year.
The Cerebral aspects of his game are good. He's more often than not in position. He's not putting himself out of position and when he does make a mistake he seems to learn from it and not repeat it.
Hell, Q gave him PK time last game. If you need handholding on D you're not going to get a shot at the PK.
9 games in is not much, but the cerebral aspect of his D-game is promising.
Saying he's already a top-4 is not much of a stretch. Will he remain? Who knows.
As for the capspace, next season gives us Seabs, Keith, Joker, Murph, Manning, and Gus on the backend. That's a full 6-man compliment. Now, Manning is too expensive for a #7, so I'd think he's gotta be moved 1st and foremost. Murph's status is up in the air (i'll pass judgement when he gets some games this year under his belt, but the other 4 have been decent this year. I think any acquisitions on the back end will hinge on how Gus, Joker, Keith, and Seabs play the full 82. If their trend continues, we might only need depth pieces. on D--and preferably at a better rate than Bowman paid for Manning on the slag heap.
The Cerebral aspects of his game are good. He's more often than not in position. He's not putting himself out of position and when he does make a mistake he seems to learn from it and not repeat it.
Hell, Q gave him PK time last game. If you need handholding on D you're not going to get a shot at the PK.
9 games in is not much, but the cerebral aspect of his D-game is promising.
Saying he's already a top-4 is not much of a stretch. Will he remain? Who knows.
As for the capspace, next season gives us Seabs, Keith, Joker, Murph, Manning, and Gus on the backend. That's a full 6-man compliment. Now, Manning is too expensive for a #7, so I'd think he's gotta be moved 1st and foremost. Murph's status is up in the air (i'll pass judgement when he gets some games this year under his belt, but the other 4 have been decent this year. I think any acquisitions on the back end will hinge on how Gus, Joker, Keith, and Seabs play the full 82. If their trend continues, we might only need depth pieces. on D--and preferably at a better rate than Bowman paid for Manning on the slag heap.
the bold is the key to my argument..... we the team can not keep wasting those yrs.
djeck42
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2011
- 59
- 16
I feel like Q would love Bouwmeester on his team. So hopefully Q is gone or Jay retires, a defensive version of Kunitz.
I want Panarin even though I see him too expensive; someone like Mcquaid would be nice but I see him getting overpaid somewhere. Karlsson is going to get a lot of money where I dont see him able to shine in Chicago and should let our young guys develop
I want Panarin even though I see him too expensive; someone like Mcquaid would be nice but I see him getting overpaid somewhere. Karlsson is going to get a lot of money where I dont see him able to shine in Chicago and should let our young guys develop
CallMeShaft
Calder Bedard Fan
- Apr 14, 2014
- 15,843
- 21,373
The Hawks will have control (by either having a player signed or by owning their rights) of Keith, Seabrook, Murphy, Gustafsson, Manning, Forsling, Jokiharju, Boqvist, and Mitchell. Maybe another prospect or two too (Krys?).
That'd make our defensive depth like this
Keith Jokiharju
Gustafsson Seabrook
Forsling Murphy
Boqvist Mitchell
Manning
I like Murphy, but trading him for cap space next year when we're loaded with RHD's biting at the opportunity sounds like a smart choice. I dislike Manning and will hope he magically disappears. Thus our defense would look like this
Keith Jokiharju
Gustafsson Seabrook
Forsling Boqvist/Mitchell
Cheap 7th D
Let Boqvist and Mitchell fight for a spot in preseason. Whoever is more ready and capable to play in the NHL gets a spot, the other goes to Rockford for a year. Sign a 7th defensemen for cheap who'll mostly sit (like Davidson).
That would give us Keith, Seabrook, and Gustafsson for highly experienced players, along with 23yo Forsling, 20yo Jokiharju, and either 20yo Mitchell or 19yo Boqvist. And then whoever else for a 7th defensemen.
But that group above is a good mix of old and young. We don't need to have Beaudin, Mitchell, and Boqvist all start in the same season. We can ease them in when they are ready and ice a relatively competent back end throughout that time frame. No need to trade for or sign more help on the back-end.
For forward acquisitions, either someone cheap like a Dzingel who can help with scoring depth, or sign Panarin. Most times when you sign a UFA, their best years are behind them. Panarin might be the exception due in good part to coming over to the NHL so late in his career. He's my main target, but if he doesn't want to return or the cap won't work, signing a lesser name will hurt less financially, especially when in Dzingel's case, they grew up in the Chicagoland area and would find some extra value in that.
That'd make our defensive depth like this
Keith Jokiharju
Gustafsson Seabrook
Forsling Murphy
Boqvist Mitchell
Manning
I like Murphy, but trading him for cap space next year when we're loaded with RHD's biting at the opportunity sounds like a smart choice. I dislike Manning and will hope he magically disappears. Thus our defense would look like this
Keith Jokiharju
Gustafsson Seabrook
Forsling Boqvist/Mitchell
Cheap 7th D
Let Boqvist and Mitchell fight for a spot in preseason. Whoever is more ready and capable to play in the NHL gets a spot, the other goes to Rockford for a year. Sign a 7th defensemen for cheap who'll mostly sit (like Davidson).
That would give us Keith, Seabrook, and Gustafsson for highly experienced players, along with 23yo Forsling, 20yo Jokiharju, and either 20yo Mitchell or 19yo Boqvist. And then whoever else for a 7th defensemen.
But that group above is a good mix of old and young. We don't need to have Beaudin, Mitchell, and Boqvist all start in the same season. We can ease them in when they are ready and ice a relatively competent back end throughout that time frame. No need to trade for or sign more help on the back-end.
For forward acquisitions, either someone cheap like a Dzingel who can help with scoring depth, or sign Panarin. Most times when you sign a UFA, their best years are behind them. Panarin might be the exception due in good part to coming over to the NHL so late in his career. He's my main target, but if he doesn't want to return or the cap won't work, signing a lesser name will hurt less financially, especially when in Dzingel's case, they grew up in the Chicagoland area and would find some extra value in that.
RememberTheRoar
“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
If we can trust Keith and Seabrook to not decline any more, and if Forsling proves to be a consistent NHL defenseman, then I agree that all could work.
Still, makes me nervous as hell because young defensemen can be so unpredictable in their development.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
Pre-Game Talk: Bruins @ Leafs - Game 3 - 7pm - Series tied 1 - 1- Latest: The Masters
Upcoming events
-
Pelicans Lahti @ Tappara Tampere - Tappara leads series 2-0Wagers: 3Staked: $15,151.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Ocelari Trinec @ HC Dynamo Pardubice - Series tied 2-2Wagers: 1Staked: $25.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
