We are 1/3rd of the Way Through The Season

[CloneHakanPlease*]

You mention him moving to Russia, and so do alot of others. Is there any source for this???

If he is planning on only playing 2 more years... what could we get for Datsyuk???

No matter what we trade for him it wont be enough. 2 1sts and a second pick? From Vancouver lets say? Is it worth it? Or from Boston?

It is highly likely we get 2 players like SHEAHAN for that... its not that good.
BUT if we trade Datsyuk... you also have to trade Zetterberg. I can't see one going and the other staying.

I honestly can't remember a team LITERALLY trading away TWO superstars to rebuild instantly while there team was still decent.... Mmmmm wait a minute... Philly did. I honestly wonder if they are better for it.

Completely different scenarios and faulty logic. Both of their players weren't impending UFAs with a high chance of leaving. Philly was not clearly trending downward. Even despite their failings right now, the return they got for Mike Richards is more valuable than Mike Richards is right now for his bloated contract. I can go on and on about how your comparison makes no sense.

And no one is saying that the players we will get will be close to Datsyuk. They'd just be better than nothing. Even if we get a player that is a 1/3rd of Datsyuk it would be a good deal going forward. Maybe put the sarcasm aside and learn to comprehend what people are actually saying before making a fool of yourself. The adults are talking

 

[BinCookin]

Completely different scenarios and faulty logic. Both of their players weren't impending UFAs with a high chance of leaving. Philly was not clearly trending downward. Even despite their failings right now, the return they got for Mike Richards is more valuable than Mike Richards is right now for his bloated contract. I can go on and on about how your comparison makes no sense.

And no one is saying that the players we will get will be close to Datsyuk. They'd just be better than nothing. Even if we get a player that is a 1/3rd of Datsyuk it would be a good deal going forward. Maybe put the sarcasm aside and learn to comprehend what people are actually saying before making a fool of yourself. The adults are talking

Ya EzBake very rude sir. Unnecessary.

I think the trouble is here, you mention Chicago. They are the best team in hockey right now.
So lets do what they did right?

Chicago was basically the worst team in our division for going on 10 years-12years. They were really bad, for a really long time. You only get good once you draft the right set of guys. There is no guarantee. I think people mentioning 2-3 years, or 4 years are blinding themselves.

What you are arguing for is more giving up on the team completely for the next 6-7 years. Lets just sell everyone and hope we get a good team MUCH further in the future. Lets be Columbus right? Would you trade our NHL team for theirs? They have 3 1st's this year? (I am not patronizing you are making an argument.. its a real question.)

You also have to remember hockey is a business, and its bad business to be the worst team in all of hockey for 5-10 years. Maybe in Canada, you can get away with that. But Detroit will be badly hurt by that.

Also there is something to be said for Datsyuk and Zetterberg retiring as Red Wings.

Many factors here that is all.

Edit: Lets say you can Keep the AHL griffins and Tatar/Nyquist/Smith and then trade the rest of the NHL team straight up for Columbus's, and the draft choices.
Would you do it?

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Ya EzBake very rude sir. Unnecessary.

I think the trouble is here, you mention Chicago. They are the best team in hockey right now.
So lets do what they did right?

Chicago was basically the worst team in our division for going on 10 years-12years. They were really bad, for a really long time. You only get good once you draft the right set of guys. There is no guarantee. I think people mentioning 2-3 years, or 4 years are blinding themselves.

What you are arguing for is more giving up on the team completely for the next 6-7 years. Lets just sell everyone and hope we get a good team MUCH further in the future. Lets be Columbus right? Would you trade our NHL team for theirs? They have 3 1st's this year? (I am not patronizing you are making an argument.. its a real question.)

You also have to remember hockey is a business, and its bad business to be the worst team in all of hockey for 5-10 years. Maybe in Canada, you can get away with that. But Detroit will be badly hurt by that.

Also there is something to be said for Datsyuk and Zetterberg retiring as Red Wings.

Many factors here that is all.

Edit: Lets say you can Keep the AHL griffins and Tatar/Nyquist/Smith and then trade the rest of the NHL team straight up for Columbus's, and the draft choices.
Would you do it?

I didnt mention Chicago at all. I think if done properly the retool could be done in 3 years given our prospect pool and strong ownership (assuming the Illitch family still retains the team if Mike unfortunatly passes.)

Will viewership go down? Most probably but i think we have a strong enough core fan base to still avoid dead wings territory, especially if there is young talent to cheer for.

Will edit more when im not on the mobile app

 

[RedMenace]

Perhaps, but a certain comes to mind.

By , of course I mean Andreas Lilja

Man, Dave Chappelle has put on some weight...

 

[mukluks]

Ya EzBake very rude sir. Unnecessary.

I think the trouble is here, you mention Chicago. They are the best team in hockey right now.
So lets do what they did right?

Chicago was basically the worst team in our division for going on 10 years-12years. They were really bad, for a really long time. You only get good once you draft the right set of guys. There is no guarantee. I think people mentioning 2-3 years, or 4 years are blinding themselves.

What you are arguing for is more giving up on the team completely for the next 6-7 years. Lets just sell everyone and hope we get a good team MUCH further in the future. Lets be Columbus right? Would you trade our NHL team for theirs? They have 3 1st's this year? (I am not patronizing you are making an argument.. its a real question.)

You also have to remember hockey is a business, and its bad business to be the worst team in all of hockey for 5-10 years. Maybe in Canada, you can get away with that. But Detroit will be badly hurt by that.

Also there is something to be said for Datsyuk and Zetterberg retiring as Red Wings.

Many factors here that is all.

Edit: Lets say you can Keep the AHL griffins and Tatar/Nyquist/Smith and then trade the rest of the NHL team straight up for Columbus's, and the draft choices.
Would you do it?

I am the one who mentioned Chicago, in comparison to Calgary. Chicago was terrible for a number of years for many reasons, with our management and ownership I don't think
anyone is proposing being the worst team in hockey for 10 years.

You have to look beyond the griffins and take into account the whole prospect pool. I believe there is a very solid d core and goalie to build around (Mrazek, Oullett, Sproul, etc). There are no Lidstroms, Datsyuk's or Z's in the system however (not likely anyway). This makes sense because of our low drafting position for the last 20 years. In the past we either had Lidstrom to fall back on, spending lots of cash or Dats and Z more recently. Those days are gone however, and they are not coming back.

So my argument is that without any really elite talent coming up in the system, an aging roster and the fact that elite ufa's are hard to come by we need to draft that elite talent. Without a top 3-5 pick that is a tall order, picking from 1-5 however does increase our chances of finding that elite talent.

There is risk to this approach certainly, however there is just as much if not more risk to continue to ignore the reality of the situation and hope it improves somehow. I will once again point to Calgary as a team that has never really taken any risks or made bold moves and is the definition of mediocre.

Given how things have gone after Lidstrom's departure do you really want to repeat it as Dats leaves and Z ages?

 

[Actual Thought*]

Possitives: They seem like a nice bunch of fellows.

Negatives: They aren't very good at hockey.

 

[Syckle78]

Possitives: They seem like a nice bunch of fellows.

Negatives: They aren't very good at hockey.

According to Ryan O'Reilly dad character builds dynasties. Perhaps that is Hollands plan. /shrug

 

[14ari13]

Quincey has no points, but leads the team in +/- and is 6th among Dmen in the league in +/-.
If someone told me he would lead our Dmen in points I woudl say OK, but in +/- with no points.
Anyone has any explanation how?

 

[BinCookin]

Quincey has no points, but leads the team in +/- and is 6th among Dmen in the league in +/-.
If someone told me he would lead our Dmen in points I woudl say OK, but in +/- with no points.
Anyone has any explanation how?

Well all things considered. It means he doesn't help produce any points, and seems to be doing a good job making sure none are scored on us. (This can be done without scoring, it just means you need to be that much better defensively.) - its a flawed stat but his #'s vs Kronwalls is a pattern! (within the same team, +/- is much more comparable)

He might be only against 2nd and 3rd lines. But either way the stats say he should be occasionally promoted up to more ice time to see if that defensive ability translates against top lines.

 

[Henkka]

Quincey has no points, but leads the team in +/- and is 6th among Dmen in the league in +/-.
If someone told me he would lead our Dmen in points I woudl say OK, but in +/- with no points.
Anyone has any explanation how?

It wasn't a surprice for me. He has always been that defensive defenceman at Detroit. That was his projection as a prospect in here, and that's what he is now.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Quincey has no points, but leads the team in +/- and is 6th among Dmen in the league in +/-.
If someone told me he would lead our Dmen in points I woudl say OK, but in +/- with no points.
Anyone has any explanation how?

My only hope is we are sheltering him to boost his plus/minus in order to trade him. Didn't the Panthers recently trade a d-man? If we are truly in hot pursuit of Stephen Weiss then perhaps Quincey is part of the trade and will be heading down to Florida.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

My only hope is we are sheltering him to boost his plus/minus in order to trade him. Didn't the Panthers recently trade a d-man? If we are truly in hot pursuit of Stephen Weiss then perhaps Quincey is part of the trade and will be heading down to Florida.

I sure as hell hope they don't. Quincey has been fine recently and our defense is still terrible.

 

[InjuredChoker]

My only hope is we are sheltering him to boost his plus/minus in order to trade him. Didn't the Panthers recently trade a d-man? If we are truly in hot pursuit of Stephen Weiss then perhaps Quincey is part of the trade and will be heading down to Florida.

Yeah. Ellerby but he was odd-man out.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I sure as hell hope they don't. Quincey has been fine recently and our defense is still terrible.

Fair enough, I just see $4 million per year or thereabouts for a 3rd pairing d-man who plays weak competition and PKs against weak competition to be something we'd laugh at other teams for doing.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Fair enough, I just see $4 million per year or thereabouts for a 3rd pairing d-man who plays weak competition and PKs against weak competition to be something we'd laugh at other teams for doing.

well, we use to anyhow...

 

[14ari13]

Well all things considered. It means he doesn't help produce any points, and seems to be doing a good job making sure none are scored on us. (This can be done without scoring, it just means you need to be that much better defensively.) - its a flawed stat but his #'s vs Kronwalls is a pattern! (within the same team, +/- is much more comparable)

He might be only against 2nd and 3rd lines. But either way the stats say he should be occasionally promoted up to more ice time to see if that defensive ability translates against top lines.

He had a very rough start of the season, but he is 6th in the league among Dmen. No matter what we have to admit it is impressive, specially considering position of our team and considering Kronwall's -9

It wasn't a surprice for me. He has always been that defensive defenceman at Detroit. That was his projection as a prospect in here, and that's what he is now.

I di dnot know that. Why not give him a shot with Kronwall then?

 

[Henkka]

From redwingscentral.com archive:

at January 2007:

10. Kyle Quincey, D, 6-2, 215, Grand Rapids (AHL). When he isn’t trying to do too much, he plays a steady, physical game and makes smart, quick first passes. But he hasn’t done that on a consistent basis this season. “He just needs to work on the simple things,” said McNamara.

Quincey is exactly that on this day. When he doesn't try to be a puckmoving defenceman, he is fine defensively.

It was just the other organizations LAK and COL, who put Quincey on the PP, where he get his points and somehow people started to think he is a great offensive defenceman. He is not, with too much the puck he becomes a mistake-machine, even though he can play the PP on average level. But power-play isn't the only measurement for puck-moving D, it's that main part of the game that happens at even strength.

 

[14ari13]

My only hope is we are sheltering him to boost his plus/minus in order to trade him. Didn't the Panthers recently trade a d-man? If we are truly in hot pursuit of Stephen Weiss then perhaps Quincey is part of the trade and will be heading down to Florida.

Do we need to upgrade forwards or defence?

 

[Vladdy84]

Do we need to upgrade forwards or defence?

Forwards IMO. Smith will be back soon. Kronwall and Jimmy have to get better right?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Do we need to upgrade forwards or defence?

Quincey was supposed to be a top 4 d-man who can play in all areas. He's contributing nothing on the PP. So I've been arguing we need a top 4 d-man who can QB the PP. That would give us 3-4 good d-men for the power play.

Kronwall
Smith
Carlo Colaicovo for the 6 games he's healthy
+ the new guy

 

[RedWingsNow*]

From redwingscentral.com archive:

at January 2007:



Quincey is exactly that on this day. When he doesn't try to be a puckmoving defenceman, he is fine defensively.

It was just the other organizations LAK and COL, who put Quincey on the PP, where he get his points and somehow people started to think he is a great offensive defenceman. He is not, with too much the puck he becomes a mistake-machine, even though he can play the PP on average level. But power-play isn't the only measurement for puck-moving D, it's that main part of the game that happens at even strength.

This is what we saw in the 07 playoffs. Speed for puck retrieval. Get the puck out. Nothing fancy.

I'm still not happy with his play though. I can't believe how soft he's playing? Did coach tell him to stop hitting to keep the PIMs down?

 

[14ari13]

Forwards IMO. Smith will be back soon. Kronwall and Jimmy have to get better right?

If one of them can get it going, I would be more than happy.

Quincey was supposed to be a top 4 d-man who can play in all areas. He's contributing nothing on the PP. So I've been arguing we need a top 4 d-man who can QB the PP. That would give us 3-4 good d-men for the power play.

Kronwall
Smith
Carlo Colaicovo for the 6 games he's healthy
+ the new guy

Who is the new guy? Maybe Quincey's value is never going to be higher, so maybe it is the right time to get something good for him.

This is what we saw in the 07 playoffs. Speed for puck retrieval. Get the puck out. Nothing fancy.

I'm still not happy with his play though. I can't believe how soft he's playing? Did coach tell him to stop hitting to keep the PIMs down?

I do not know how you can say you are not happy with his game. He is +10, 6th among all Dmen in the league on a team that is struggling. He must be doing something right. He was brutal 1st 5ish games, but he has settled down.

 

[Henkka]

He was brutal 1st 5ish games, but he has settled down.

Smith's injury helped a lot as settling down. I hope they don't try them together again.