GDT: WCQF Game 4: Jets @ Blues l 8:30pm CT (FSMW, CNBC) l Home Team Has to Win Eventually...Right?

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Foomp Dugan

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Mar 29, 2012
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If Bortuzzo and Edmundson aren't big crease-clearing D men, what are they?

Did you somehow miss the entirety of Jackman's career?
Bortz and Eddy do “ok” at it, but nobody’s really afraid of them. They’re not difference makers, nor was Jackman.

Eddy could develop into that but his regression this year was disappointing. Would love to see him turn into a Kevin Hatcher type. For being as big as he is, he doesn’t use his body to his advantage as much as years past.

But none of them come close to the nastiness of a Stevens, Konstantinov or Pronger. Those guys were game changers. We don’t have that.
 

Majorityof1

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The D you mentioned all had another nasty D man on their team to take those roles. Konstantinov, Seabrook, Stevens. The Blues have nothing like that.

When was the last time the Blues had a big nasty crease-clearing D man?? Not since Pronger.

Seems all the big men we draft are either powder puff soft or don’t put on the muscle they need.

Neidermeyer won the Conn Smythe with the Duckss, so it was Pronger not Stevens. Point taken though. However, as Easton stated, we have Edmundson and Bortuzzo for that. Even if we didn't, you are not going to get results forcing a player into a game he is not comfortable with. Pietrangelo is not an overly physical player, so expecting him to be physically dominating is setting him and yourself up for disappointment. The original question also stands, why does Parayko (who has the physical size to play that game) get a pass, but Pietrangelo gets raked over the coals by certain fans for not being physical?
 

MissouriMook

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Bortz and Eddy do “ok” at it, but nobody’s really afraid of them. They’re not difference makers, nor was Jackman.

Eddy could develop into that but his regression this year was disappointing. Would love to see him turn into a Kevin Hatcher type. For being as big as he is, he doesn’t use his body to his advantage as much as years past.

But none of them come close to the nastiness of a Stevens, Konstantinov or Pronger. Those guys were game changers. We don’t have that.
Who in today's game would you suggest fits the mold of any of the guys you list here? I can't think of one guy who has the "crease clearing" you're looking for down without having many other glaring holes in their game.
 
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Stealth JD

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Who in today's game would you suggest fits the mold of any of the guys you list here? I can't think of one guy who has the "crease clearing" you're looking for down without having many other glaring holes in their game.

Shea Weber maybe? Chara? They're a dying breed for sure. Heiskenan, Makar, Dahlin & Q. Hughes are going to be the gold-standard. If we could perhaps get a demonic possession to take place within Colton Parayko, you'd have 31 NHL GM's drooling over what he's got. But barring some sort of Clockwork Orange conversion-therapy which makes #55 a bad dude, he's going to waste that size playing a finesse game. The long reach is nice, but he's got such an advantage over 99% of the humans in that league that he could be much more difficult to play against. He needs to break spirits, and make guys unwilling to get in his space...actually be a game-changer.
 

Bluesnatic27

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Who in today's game would you suggest fits the mold of any of the guys you list here? I can't think of one guy who has the "crease clearing" you're looking for down without having many other glaring holes in their game.
You can even go one step further and ask if it’s possible to play a Stevens-like game anymore. Granted I wasn’t around when Stevens was in his prime, but based on the hits I’ve seen in highlights, the guy would be suspended every other game in today’s NHL. I mean if Tom Wilson plays like he has no regard for human life, than Stevens looks like he played to commit genocide.
 
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Majorityof1

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You can even go one step further and ask if it’s possible to play a Stevens-like game anymore. Granted I wasn’t around when Stevens was in his prime, but based on the hits I’ve seen in highlights, the guy would be suspended every other game in today’s NHL. I mean if Tom Wilson plays like he has no regard for human life, than Stevens looks like he played to commit genocide.

Stevens was relatively clean. He just took advantage of people's mistakes to obliterate them. On some of his more famous hits (Lindros, Kariya), he may have gotten too much head for today's game, but he always got a lot of body too. I think he could adjust. He hit people in the front, when they had the puck, without charging. That's a whole world away from Wilson who hit people without the puck from behind taking 6 strides into the hit.
 

Bluesnatic27

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Stevens was relatively clean. He just took advantage of people's mistakes to obliterate them. On some of his more famous hits (Lindros, Kariya), he may have gotten too much head for today's game, but he always got a lot of body too. I think he could adjust. He hit people in the front, when they had the puck, without charging. That's a whole world away from Wilson who hit people without the puck from behind taking 6 strides into the hit.
Fair enough. Like I said, I wasn't a hockey fan when Stevens played. The highlights you find of Stevens wouldn't be tolerated in today's NHL, the Kariya hit being prime evidence. I wasn't trying to suggest that Stevens is somehow a worse player than Wilson, but more hyperbole to suggest that the NHL's disciplinary rulings are much more strict.
 

Brian39

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Stevens was relatively clean. He just took advantage of people's mistakes to obliterate them. On some of his more famous hits (Lindros, Kariya), he may have gotten too much head for today's game, but he always got a lot of body too. I think he could adjust. He hit people in the front, when they had the puck, without charging. That's a whole world away from Wilson who hit people without the puck from behind taking 6 strides into the hit.

He was exceptionally clean for the rules of his time. But those rules are very different than today's and his game greatly benefited from them. A huge component of his game was obliterating guys in open ice to protect the blue line and he routinely blindsided guys and launched upward. That was clean at the time because he did a masterful job keeping his elbow tucked in. With the speed of today's game, I'm not sure it is possible to routinely make his type of hit without contacting the head enough to stay away from long term suspensions. I disagree that he generally hit from the front. His signature play was that hit where he would slide over laterally toward his partner and drill a guy East/West. Often times after they had released the puck. That's largely considered a blindside hit today and is pretty severely punished by the NHL if you contact the head at all.

The margin for error on avoiding the head with those types of hits is just so small. I'm not sure it is humanely possible to consistently make that type of hit without ever getting head. Getting the head on 5 of those types of hits over a 7 or 8 year window in today's NHL would see him earning Tom Wilson level suspensions and the reputation that the ref is going to give him 5 and a game if he sees the forward's head snap back and there was potentially head contact.

I don't think you can routinely make that type of hit in today's NHL, no matter how good you are at trying to avoid the head (which we have zero evidence Stevens would be good at that).
 
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TheDizee

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People with opinions are realists. People who only hold (or express) negative opinions are trolls. You are the latter, and frankly not a very good one. Narcissists like you tend to be very bad at that game, but you’ll never convince them otherwise because, well, they’re narcissists.
rofl if I was a troll I would have been banned years ago. you just cant handle the fact that other people here have strong opinions and are almost always deadly accurate with their analysis of the club. its pretty simple, few others and myself on here dont sugarcoat and act like homers when this team decides to act and play like dummies and it rubs some of you the wrong way.

oh well get over it and use the ignore function already like the mods have stated 100x or quit the whining about "trolls". my moderation history here is basically nonexistent for a reason, not that its any of your business anyways.
 
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Foomp Dugan

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Shea Weber maybe? Chara? They're a dying breed for sure. Heiskenan, Makar, Dahlin & Q. Hughes are going to be the gold-standard. If we could perhaps get a demonic possession to take place within Colton Parayko, you'd have 31 NHL GM's drooling over what he's got. But barring some sort of Clockwork Orange conversion-therapy which makes #55 a bad dude, he's going to waste that size playing a finesse game. The long reach is nice, but he's got such an advantage over 99% of the humans in that league that he could be much more difficult to play against. He needs to break spirits, and make guys unwilling to get in his space...actually be a game-changer.
Byfuglien’s doing a pretty good job keeping our guys out of the crease.
 
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Ted Hoffman

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The days of the nasty, snarling, big physical defenseman clearing everything from in front of the net are gone. It was great in the clutch-and-grab era, it wouldn't last in today's game that's built much more on speed and skill.

This team would be better if it just played sound defense like it did for about 35 games, instead of skating around confused and panicked. It would also be better if it got back to creating sustained pressure in the offensive zone, instead of skating the puck in on net from every bad angle at every opportunity and getting perhaps one low-quality chance. It's pretty clear what works for this team and what doesn't; we need much more of the former to swipe momentum back.
 

hullderko

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Apr 21, 2015
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I watched this over and over and still have trouble understanding how this happened. Scheiffle had some speed over the blue line, but Sunny and Perron could have and should have been much more aggressive on this play while protecting a one goal lead in the 3rd period. I think they were early in their shift as Schenn was the last one off from his line and Schwartz had just jumped on.
First Round, Gm4_ WPG @ STL _ NHL com.jpg


A few seconds prior to that it was basically a 2 on 3 with Perron coming back in support, but he stopped skating as he crossed the Blue note.
First Round, Gm4_ WPG @ STL _ NHL com (1).jpg


This play should have gone nowhere, not sure #27's pinch on Wheeler at the redline was such a bad thing if he felt like he had 3-4 mates behind him. Unfortunately 3 of the four stopped skating and started watching themselves lose a game.
 

MissouriMook

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rofl if I was a troll I would have been banned years ago. you just cant handle the fact that other people here have strong opinions and are almost always deadly accurate with their analysis of the club. its pretty simple, few others and myself on here dont sugarcoat and act like homers when this team decides to act and play like dummies and it rubs some of you the wrong way.

oh well get over it and use the ignore function already like the mods have stated 100x or quit the whining about "trolls". my moderation history here is basically nonexistent for a reason, not that its any of your business anyways.


@ WPG W
@ WPG L
WPG L
WPG W

"Deadly accurate" at 2 out of 4. Basically a coin flip. WRONG AGAIN.

TB-CLB - TB in 4
BOS-TOR - BOS in 5
NYI-PIT - PIT in 5

"Deadly accurate" at 0 out 3 and counting. The other 5 first round series are still to be decided, but frankly a lot of them are looking pretty bad for you.

Having strong opinion =/= having varied or valid opinions. I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that close to 99% of your posts are negative in some way, and that doesn't make you opinionated it makes you a whiner. You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts and you have a losing formula that rarely disappoints:

Step 1 - State an opinion as fact
Step 2 - Get proven wrong
Step 3 - Move the goalposts

And, no, I'm not going to put you on ignore because for some reason I take great joy in parroting back to you (almost daily now) your very wrong predictions. You fancy yourself as some sort of know-it-all, when you've been proven time and again to be no more accurate than a broken clock. A monkey with a quarter or a dart is more accurate. Find someone else to work your schtick on, because I call bullshit when I see bullshit and it follows you around like f***ing Pig Pen.
 
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Robb_K

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Apr 26, 2007
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Shea Weber maybe? Chara? They're a dying breed for sure. Heiskenan, Makar, Dahlin & Q. Hughes are going to be the gold-standard. If we could perhaps get a demonic possession to take place within Colton Parayko, you'd have 31 NHL GM's drooling over what he's got. But barring some sort of Clockwork Orange conversion-therapy which makes #55 a bad dude, he's going to waste that size playing a finesse game. The long reach is nice, but he's got such an advantage over 99% of the humans in that league that he could be much more difficult to play against. He needs to break spirits, and make guys unwilling to get in his space...actually be a game-changer.

They're a dying breed because most of what they did to clear the crease area would result in penalties under today's rules, and the way they are interpreted.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
7,029
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I watched this over and over and still have trouble understanding how this happened. Scheiffle had some speed over the blue line, but Sunny and Perron could have and should have been much more aggressive on this play while protecting a one goal lead in the 3rd period. I think they were early in their shift as Schenn was the last one off from his line and Schwartz had just jumped on.
View attachment 217169

A few seconds prior to that it was basically a 2 on 3 with Perron coming back in support, but he stopped skating as he crossed the Blue note.
View attachment 217171

This play should have gone nowhere, not sure #27's pinch on Wheeler at the redline was such a bad thing if he felt like he had 3-4 mates behind him. Unfortunately 3 of the four stopped skating and started watching themselves lose a game.

Petro's execution on that play was not good. He completely mistimed the play and I'd like to see him go for a stick check/holdup over a hit.

But his decision to step up there is the decision you want your D man making 100% of the time. We had a 3 man line at the blueline behind him AND Perron was applying back pressure on the puck carrier.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
19,834
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@ WPG W
@ WPG L
WPG L
WPG W

"Deadly accurate" at 2 out of 4. Basically a coin flip. WRONG AGAIN.

TB-CLB - TB in 4
BOS-TOR - BOS in 5
NYI-PIT - PIT in 5

"Deadly accurate" at 0 out 3 and counting. The other 5 first round series are still to be decided, but frankly a lot of them are looking pretty bad for you.

Having strong opinion =/= having varied or valid opinions. I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that close to 99% of your posts are negative in some way, and that doesn't make you opinionated it makes you a whiner. You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts and you have a losing formula that rarely disappoints:

Step 1 - State an opinion as fact
Step 2 - Get proven wrong
Step 3 - Move the goalposts

And, no, I'm not going to put you on ignore because for some reason I take great joy in parroting back to you (almost daily now) your very wrong predictions. You fancy yourself as some sort of know-it-all, when you've been proven time and again to be no more accurate than a broken clock. A monkey with a quarter or a dart is more accurate. Find someone else to work your schtick on, because I call bull**** when I see bull**** and it follows you around like ****ing Pig Pen.
why are you talking about things in my topic in another thread? that was the point of that thread being made. keep it in my thread if you wanna critique my posts from there. thanks.
 

Brian39

Registered User
Apr 24, 2014
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why are you talking about things in my topic in another thread? that was the point of that thread being made. keep it in my thread if you wanna critique my posts from there. thanks.

LOL, you were literally the one who brought up how you are "almost always deadly accurate."

Don't bring up things that you don't want talked about.

Next time, phrase it as "I'm always right so long as you don't examine the things I talk about."
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
16,838
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Stevens was relatively clean. He just took advantage of people's mistakes to obliterate them. On some of his more famous hits (Lindros, Kariya), he may have gotten too much head for today's game, but he always got a lot of body too. I think he could adjust. He hit people in the front, when they had the puck, without charging. That's a whole world away from Wilson who hit people without the puck from behind taking 6 strides into the hit.
I read a book on Stevens when I was younger. Apparently there were no doors in his childhood home, because he broke them all practicing his hitting. Dude was an insanely good hitter.
 
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