Pre-Game Talk: WC Qualifier: (5) Edmonton Oilers vs. (12) Chicago Blackhawks

[Oilhawks]

I am not sure how you classify players but I think having a guy like Chisasson as a 4RW is overly harsh. If you look at scoring over the three years between 2016-1017 and 2018-2019 Chiasson sits at #56 amongst RW with 80 points and he's tied for 41st in goals. He's decent defensively as well. So it's pretty safe to say that he is an unspectacular but effective 3rd liner who can play up the line-up when he is going well.

Athanasiou has not yet clicked with the Oilers but he is legitimate top 6 winger on most teams. And I say that even though I was not a big proponent of trading for him. Over the same period as a above he sits 26th in goals for LW with 64 and is 37th in points. At this point the Oiler's forward depth is actually fairly good because some of the less productive bottom 6'er are also terrific pk'ers, and in the case of a guy like Neal or Chaisson you have players who can be contributors on the pp.

Chicago has more pure talent in the bottom half of the forward crew. But the Oilers have done a lot to address their forward depth.

I was basing it off stats but also my subjective feel of the player and where they are at at this moment in time (ex younger players likely to be higher as they develop or get used to the team / systems). I was trying to be a bit harsh in some cases for sake of being conservative in expectations.

I was debating putting Chiasson as “3RW”, on the lower end like you pointed out. I like the player and think he’s been more of last seasons Chiasson the second half of this season.

Agreed with your assessment of Athanasiou, that is my hope at least. He could be a real X factor if he starts to come on offensively.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

This is shameful. At least the more "adventurous" individuals around here have the gall to use the same account when they are trolling the other team's boards.

Haha, yeah. I've been a member of HF for 5 years and I probably have a collective of over 1 year in HF jail. I try to watch what I say but I still get carried away sometimes. I would never do a fake account tho.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The only note I will say here is of my aboriginal friends they have always been mixed on the logo and name. Some think it's bad some think it's whatever. All of them hate when people wear headdresses like they are a costume and shit like that.

I think the timing is weird as well but them banning it is a positive.

Can't really agree because its blatantly dishonest. if the hawks finally believe that theres connotation of disrespect than they need to rethink, rename, rebrand everything. you can't just tell the fans to be doing it, lol. Wouldn't take me long to find out that the Hawks were selling head dresses in concessions. Didn't they even give them out in playoffs at one point?

In anycase the mascot name "Tommy Hawk" completely evokes how tonedeaf the org was, always, to any concerns. I mean that mascot existing at the Madhouse as recently as hockey was played there.

You ignore that the Hawks logo is a depiction of an indigenous person wearing Head Dress. So that they've tied themselves in a double standard that is laughable. I mean either be one or the other. The hawks don't get to pretend to be sensitive to every viewpoint and expect to be taken seriously on it.

 

[GrinningBuddha]

And then it was 1. Let the playoffs begin!!

 

[CycloneSweep]

Can't really agree because its blatantly dishonest. if the hawks finally believe that theres connotation of disrespect than they need to rethink, rename, rebrand everything. you can't just tell the fans to be doing it, lol. Wouldn't take me long to find out that the Hawks were selling head dresses in concessions. Didn't they even give them out in playoffs at one point?

In anycase the mascot name "Tommy Hawk" completely evokes how tonedeaf the org was, always, to any concerns. I mean that mascot existing at the Madhouse as recently as hockey was played there.

You ignore that the Hawks logo is a depiction of an indigenous person wearing Head Dress. So that they've tied themselves in a double standard that is laughable. I mean either be one or the other. The hawks don't get to pretend to be sensitive to every viewpoint and expect to be taken seriously on it.

Oh I agree they are being pretty damn tone deaf and full of double standards like you said. Doesn't mean I don't support them banning the headdress. I'd go more into why but this is not really the place for it. All I will say is wearing a headdress is a sign of honor and you have to be given the right to do so. So people wearing a headdress for fun would be similar to someone wearing war medals around cause they thought they looked cool, when they didn't earn them or anything.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Guy uses “us” in reference to the Oilers.

Username is hattrickkane88.

Majority of posts are on the mains and the Devils board.

Definitely checks out.

Wow 2 usernames. Some people just don't have lives honestly

 

[Porkleaker]

The only note I will say here is of my aboriginal friends they have always been mixed on the logo and name. Some think it's bad some think it's whatever. All of them hate when people wear headdresses like they are a costume and shit like that.

I think the timing is weird as well but them banning it is a positive.

trudeau_headdress.jpg *cough*

 

[Todd Parchment]

Let’s destroy that racist team!!! Go Oilers Go

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oh I agree they are being pretty damn tone deaf and full of double standards like you said. Doesn't mean I don't support them banning the headdress. I'd go more into why but this is not really the place for it. All I will say is wearing a headdress is a sign of honor and you have to be given the right to do so. So people wearing a headdress for fun would be similar to someone wearing war medals around cause they thought they looked cool, when they didn't earn them or anything.

Yeah, no need to go further, I just thought it was real interesting and figured it at least deserved a mention in this thread.

haha, the BlackHawks should forfeit the series out of abject shame. Don't belong here, didn't make the playoffs, no way they would've, and now this. Its somewhat ironic they are playing in Edmonton, a place that has had a most recent pro sports name change, playing against Edmonton with Ethan Bear wearing the cree spelling of his name. (I hope theres a way to continue that)

Maybe the hawks could wear their plain color sweats for the series and pack up asap after game 3 to not stench up the place.

I think I've getting geared up. Its finally happened.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Wow 2 usernames. Some people just don't have lives honestly

OK Cloned...


jk


Cloned is too one of a kind for that name choice. heh

irony noted.

I'll walk away

 

[McTonyBrar]

I hope the Oilers obliterate the Hawks and the naysayers eat crow. Of course everyone on the main boards will find a way to downplay the Oilers' success:

"It was because of McDavid, everyone else sucked"

"Their PP was the reason they won. They sucked 5v5"

"Crawford didn't have much time to practice."

"Edmonton had locker room advantage."

f*** the mains

"Edmonton had the better toilets"

"Edmonton got the best strippers"

 

[CycloneSweep]

I am not sure how you classify players but I think having a guy like Chisasson as a 4RW is overly harsh. If you look at scoring over the three years between 2016-1017 and 2018-2019 Chiasson sits at #56 amongst RW with 80 points and he's tied for 41st in goals. He's decent defensively as well. So it's pretty safe to say that he is an unspectacular but effective 3rd liner who can play up the line-up when he is going well.

Athanasiou has not yet clicked with the Oilers but he is legitimate top 6 winger on most teams. And I say that even though I was not a big proponent of trading for him. Over the same period as a above he sits 26th in goals for LW with 64 and is 37th in points. At this point the Oiler's forward depth is actually fairly good because some of the less productive bottom 6'er are also terrific pk'ers, and in the case of a guy like Neal or Chaisson you have players who can be contributors on the pp.

Chicago has more pure talent in the bottom half of the forward crew. But the Oilers have done a lot to address their forward depth.

I find looking at raw point totals to decide where a player goes isn't the best. So I decided to look at their 5v5 numbers.
Chiasson drops down to 70th in 5v5 points and 59th in goals. Doesn't change much about him but it does put him in 3rd liner territory still.

Athanasiou drops to 40th in points but raises to 15th in goals.

I decided to look at goal scoring rates to see if that changed anything. I put in a caveat for 1000min so a guy who has played at least a full season in those 3 would qualify.

Athanasiou jump to 28th in Points/60 and 8th in Goals/60

Going back to Chiasson... he drops down to 90th in Points/60 and 56th in goals /60.

Then I decided hey lets look at Expected Goals For/60...

Chiasson sits at 100 and Athanasiou is 105.

What this tells me is both Chiasson and Athanasiou both have over achieved probably due to line mates, which, there is nothing wrong with that. It shows that they are very much complimentary players and both need linemates better than them to achieve what they have achieved. Which is fine.

Chiasson can be a good third liner, probably needs at least a decent 3c (not a Khaira or Sheahan) and Athanasiou can fit in the top 6 as well.

 

[Cloned]

OK Cloned...


jk


Cloned is too one of a kind for that name choice. heh

irony noted.

I'll walk away

He’s talking about the other guy, not me, lol.

 

[CycloneSweep]

trudeau_headdress.jpg *cough*

Cause I have to respond lol..

In that case it is considered okay because he was presented with it by a First Nations Chief. Stephen Harper was as well in like 2011

 

[Drivesaitl]

He’s talking about the other guy, not me, lol.

I need a new program. I thought you were 7 posters on this board. Stop speaking in tongues and riddles..


I was just jk around. Part 2.


No, Part 32,238 if I'm counting

 

[Little Fury]

I think losing to Chicago and drafting 1st overall would be the most Oilers thing ever

I'd take it TBH.

 

[Cloned]

I need a new program. I thought you were 7 posters on this board. Stop speaking in tongues and riddles..


I was just jk around. Part 2.


No, Part 32,238 if I'm counting

I'm a cunning linguist.

 

[bucks_oil]

The only note I will say here is of my aboriginal friends they have always been mixed on the logo and name. Some think it's bad some think it's whatever. All of them hate when people wear headdresses like they are a costume and shit like that.

I think the timing is weird as well but them banning it is a positive.

I'm usually pretty PC, so this may be offside for some. But I actually think the context and depiction of the logo matters.

In the case of Chicago: you've got an Indigenous person in (partial) headdress and looking stoic, brave, serious... to be respected and honored. Perhaps it comes from lore of a bygone era, but at least the artist was depicting the figure as a symbol of respect. In that sense it is similar to depicting "the samurai" or "knights". It can be conjuring respect, strength and... emblematic of the types of imagery that you want to unify a sports team.

In the case of Cleveland: you have a characature that is friendly looking, but deliberately cartoonish. No one can say for sure what the artist was going for, but "to be respected, revered, feared on the battle/sports field" was probably not high on the list.

The Columbus Blue Jackets for example have a third logo where a soldier is carrying a flag in a very "bayonet" type of positioning. Is this ok? or not? The Vegas Knights logo clearly presents a Knight's helmet.

I certainly understand the concept of "subjugation", and Cleveland crosses that line for me... but when is it ok to also have respect and admiration for the past? Is that only reserved for those we perceive to be the ultimate "winners"... thus Kings (mostly gone), Senators (Rome fell), and Knights (not the same as it used to be) all seem to be ok. It's ok to be inspired by the might and power of those images, but not Blackhawks? Seems a bit ethnocentric to me.

So I suppose it depends on what one sees in the logo. And I appreciate I shouldn't have a vote. The vote should go to the Potawatomie, Ojibwa and other people who identify with that region.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm usually pretty PC, so this may be offside for some. But I actually think the context and depiction of the logo matters.

In the case of Chicago: you've got an Indigenous person in (partial) headdress and looking stoic, brave, serious... to be respected and honored. Perhaps it comes from lore of a bygone era, but at least the artist was depicting the figure as a symbol of respect. In that sense it is similar to depicting "the samurai" or "knights". It can be conjuring respect, strength and... emblematic of the types of imagery that you want to unify a sports team.

In the case of Cleveland: you have a characature that is friendly looking, but deliberately cartoonish. No one can say for sure what the artist was going for, but "to be respected, revered, feared on the battle/sports field" was probably not high on the list.

The Columbus Blue Jackets for example have a third logo where a soldier is carrying a flag in a very "bayonet" type of positioning. Is this ok? or not? The Vegas Knights logo clearly presents a Knight's helmet.

I certainly understand the concept of "subjugation", and Cleveland crosses that line for me... but when is it ok to also have respect and admiration for the past? Is that only reserved for those we perceive to be the ultimate "winners"... thus Kings (mostly gone), Senators (Rome fell), and Knights (not the same as it used to be) all seem to be ok. It's ok to be inspired by the might and power of those images, but not Blackhawks? Seems a bit ethnocentric to me.

So I suppose it depends on what one sees in the logo. And I appreciate I shouldn't have a vote. The vote should go to the Potawatomie, Ojibwa and other people who identify with that region.

The Black Hawks name was always a weird one cause it was named in honor of a US military division named the Blackhawk division which in turn was named after Chief Black Hawk. Which was always weird but goes with the long history of the states naming military things after people who fought AGAINST them. (Black Hawk fought with the British against the US during the war of 1812).

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Let’s destroy that racist team!!! Go Oilers Go

>inb4 the Oilers name is demanded to be changed by angry mobs because it promotes a product that is causing the climate crisis.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

>inb4 the Oilers name is demanded to be changed by angry mobs because it promotes a product that is causing the climate crisis.

Even if that did happen....who cares?

Its a name of a team.....it could be anything. you dont need to cling to it for history sake.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I find looking at raw point totals to decide where a player goes isn't the best. So I decided to look at their 5v5 numbers.
Chiasson drops down to 70th in 5v5 points and 59th in goals. Doesn't change much about him but it does put him in 3rd liner territory still.

Athanasiou drops to 40th in points but raises to 15th in goals.

I decided to look at goal scoring rates to see if that changed anything. I put in a caveat for 1000min so a guy who has played at least a full season in those 3 would qualify.

Athanasiou jump to 28th in Points/60 and 8th in Goals/60

Going back to Chiasson... he drops down to 90th in Points/60 and 56th in goals /60.

Then I decided hey lets look at Expected Goals For/60...

Chiasson sits at 100 and Athanasiou is 105.

What this tells me is both Chiasson and Athanasiou both have over achieved probably due to line mates, which, there is nothing wrong with that. It shows that they are very much complimentary players and both need linemates better than them to achieve what they have achieved. Which is fine.

Chiasson can be a good third liner, probably needs at least a decent 3c (not a Khaira or Sheahan) and Athanasiou can fit in the top 6 as well.

 

[Mr Positive]

>inb4 the Oilers name is demanded to be changed by angry mobs because it promotes a product that is causing the climate crisis.

All these animal team names will be next. PETA will say it is obvious exploitation of a voiceless group, commodifying the natural world

 

[CycloneSweep]

View attachment 356578

For those of you with the attention spans of a gnat

TLDR: AA and Chiasson are players that have overachieved and can perform well when playing with good players. They are decent complimentary players but cannot do anything carrying or driving on their own.

 

[bellagiobob]