Confirmed with Link: Wayne Simmonds traded to Nashville for Ryan Hartman + conditional 4th

[landsbergfan]

^ If we could sign Hayes for 4 years @ $6 mil, I wouldn’t even be mad.

As for this 4th round pick, **** it. Should’ve gotten a 2nd rounder+ in a trade anyway instead of a 4th liner who showed grit in his first game. Shouldn’t have had to worry about this conditional pick being our only liquid asset return.

I think 4 years for Hayes is waaaaaayyyy too optimistic

 

[Freddy The Fog]

Simmer would be smart to sign one year deal in Toronto. Babcock will totally go full cleary with him and play him on Matthews wing once they lose kapanen.

I think right about now TO wishes desperately that it had a net front presence like JVR or Simmer (as he used to be). Glaring weakness in this PO round.

It's awesome they don't.

 

[deadhead]

Matthews should be a net front presence with his size and hands.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Honestly, if Simmonds took the year off instead of playing through injury, I think he would of been healthier this year and done better, but honestly, I think his career might be winding down due to that bad year.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Matthews is a net front presence. The top goal scorers mostly are. He’s just not defined by it like guys Simmonds & JVR are because he’s a much better hockey.

 

[FLYguy3911]

It was still a stupid move by Fletcher to turn down the 2nd round pick that multiple contenders definitely offered for Simmonds.

You really believe Fletcher didn’t have a 2nd round offer on the table?

 

[Tripod]

It was still a stupid move by Fletcher to turn down the 2nd round pick that multiple contenders definitely offered for Simmonds.

I don't disagree. But upper Mgt might now have had something to do with it too.

But as it stands, we traded a worse player, for a better player on that day and also got a pick thrown in. And we have a 3rd line RW stopgap until Farabee is ready or if we can't sign anyone.

And at some point, Hartman will likely be traded himself in 1-2 years...I would expect a 3rd to be the return. We all thought Simmonds sucked. Maybe other teams saw what we saw too. And certainly the change of scenery did nothing to change that opinion.

 

[Tripod]

You really believe Fletcher didn’t have a 2nd round offer on the table?

I think he is saying he thinks their WAS 2nd rounders offered.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I think he is saying he thinks their WAS 2nd rounders offered.

Considering he was defending the move on deadline day, I’m going to guess he’s being sarcastic and siding with management on this one.

 

[Curufinwe]

Which contender wanted to pay a 2nd for Simmonds? Not Nashville. Boston and Tampa used their 2019 2nds in other trades, and already had full forward lineups. I don't think Dubas had any interest in a guy like Simmonds.

It's so funny seeing the multiple main board threads saying how bad this trade was for Nashville, and then coming here to see people whining about getting Hartman and a 2020 4th for a totally cooked Simmonds. As if those assets couldn't fetch a 2nd now if the Flyers wanted to move them.

 

[Tripod]

Considering he was defending the move on deadline day, I’m going to guess he’s being sarcastic and siding with management on this one.

oops...my bad.

 

[Curufinwe]

The Simmonds trade was truly awful

Confirmed Trade: - [NSH/PHI] Wayne Simmonds for Ryan Hartman and 2020 conditional 4th round pick

He produced at the exact same PPG rate in Philly playing on the 3rd and 4th line. I am not saying Hartman is great. But at ES the last 3 years, he has between 26-30 ES points in each year.

Simmonds had 22 ES points this year, 28 last year, 27 2 years ago

That's pretty darn similar with the edge going to Hartman this year at ES. Simmonds is obviously better at special teams....but Flyers fans saw his drop happening their too and wanted JVR and Patrick to get his icetime instead.

Wrong. He's an untradeable 4th liner.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Hartman had 3rd line production this year at ES if you look at all forwards....and was 1 point away from being 2nd line at ES. It's sad, but true.

If he plays on the 3rd line this year, so be it. Ideally, we add and also Frost makes it pushing him to 4th line.

43%Cf and -5.2% CRel on the Flyers.

Yeah I don't know how you're reaching that conclusion about 3rd/4th line. He's a liability. 4th line material.

 

[Curufinwe]

Laughton had a worse CF% Rel and it came over a full season, so despite him scoring 32 points (zero coming on the PP) he must also be a 4th liner.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Should of kept Jordan Weal since he had the 3rd best CF% Rel of any Flyer forward.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Which contender wanted to pay a 2nd for Simmonds? Not Nashville. Boston and Tampa used their 2019 2nds in other trades, and already had full forward lineups. I don't think Dubas had any interest in a guy like Simmonds.

It's so funny seeing the multiple main board threads saying how bad this trade was for Nashville, and then coming here to see people whining about getting Hartman and a 2020 4th for a totally cooked Simmonds. As if those assets couldn't fetch a 2nd now if the Flyers wanted to move them.

Yet Friedman believed Simmonds was ready to waive his NTC to go to WPG before they elected to go after Hayes (for a 1st!). If you don’t think Fletcher had a second rounder on the table during his Flyers tenure you’re either delusional or intentionally ignoring reality to be combative. Hell I bet he had a 1st rounder on the table at some point, but I’m willing to concede that Fletcher probably waited too long as he was evaluating the roster. By that time Simmonds’ play never rebounded to a respectable level therefore that window was in all likelihood shut by 2/25. But a 2nd?! C’mon.

And as I said on the day that the trade went down, this wasn’t 100% on Fletcher. Hextall shares most of the responsibility imo. You can go back and read what I said about not liking this trade on the day that it happens and it has nothing to do with valuing Simmonds more than Hartman in a vacuum. It was more to do with the philosophy of valuing a bottom of the roster NHL player over draft picks.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Laughton had a worse CF% Rel and it came over a full season, so despite him scoring 32 points (zero coming on the PP) he must also be a 4th liner.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Should of kept Jordan Weal since he had the 3rd best CF% Rel of any Flyer forward.

Yes.... Laughton is a 4th liner.

 

[Curufinwe]

During his tenure, sure, but it seemed like on deadline day the contenders went with other options either external or internal. Better options.

In any event, I think Fletcher could trade Hartman this summer for a 2nd if he wanted an 11th pick in the 2019 draft.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yes.... Laughton is a 4th liner.

He wasn't during the 18-19 season. Not by ice time, and not by ES points.

 

[Tripod]

43%Cf and -5.2% CRel on the Flyers.

Yeah I don't know how you're reaching that conclusion about 3rd/4th line. He's a liability. 4th line material.

I wonder what his stats were on the 3rd line, vs on the 4th line when he was with Varone, Knight and Co.

I said he PRODUCED as a 3rd liner....raw production at ES.

 

[Johnk0728]

Laughton had a worse CF% Rel and it came over a full season, so despite him scoring 32 points (zero coming on the PP) he must also be a 4th liner.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Should of kept Jordan Weal since he had the 3rd best CF% Rel of any Flyer forward.

Amen..... analytic stats to prove a point? Weal is better than Hartman at hockey..... that would be: no.

 

[Flyer lurker]

1) Hartman is a fine average 24yr old 3rd line good 4th line player. We settled for it with Laughton and he was a 1st. Give Fletch credit for a B trade. You can criticize Hexy for holding on to Simmons too long but not Fletch. 2) If Frost is ready AND we sign one forward I have crazy concept for us. With Hartman and Raffl we have the makings of a legit 4th line. What a crazy concept. That not playing Varone and Bailey and all the other 14a players will help this team. If you don't have a top 10 player in the NHL (and we don't sorry Giroux/Couts) then you have to be strong EVERYWHERE else.

 

[deadhead]

You really believe Fletcher didn’t have a 2nd round offer on the table?

Did you see anything that suggested someone actually offered a 2nd?

 

[deadhead]

He wasn't during the 18-19 season. Not by ice time, and not by ES points.

Laughton can be a 3rd line LW, say with Frost until Farabee is ready, but he's no better than a 4C.
Just lacks vision and instincts, and really isn't a very good defensive player.
He's best on the wing, forechecking.

If the Flyers can't get a solid 2C/3C, a good veteran 4C could help hold the fort until Farabee, Rubtsov, et al are ready in the spring.
Someone who's a definitive upgrade over Varone/Knight.

Laughton - Frost - TK
Raffl - veteran 4C - Hartman/NAK/Bailey

then when Farabee is ready, Laughton can compete at 4LW/4C
and when Rubtsov is ready, more the merrier.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Idk why ya'll are ready to pencil Frost in. I'm not there yet. Many a players have had their junior success not translate to the pro game.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Yet Friedman believed Simmonds was ready to waive his NTC to go to WPG before they elected to go after Hayes (for a 1st!). If you don’t think Fletcher had a second rounder on the table during his Flyers tenure you’re either delusional or intentionally ignoring reality to be combative. Hell I bet he had a 1st rounder on the table at some point, but I’m willing to concede that Fletcher probably waited too long as he was evaluating the roster. By that time Simmonds’ play never rebounded to a respectable level therefore that window was in all likelihood shut by 2/25. But a 2nd?! C’mon.

And as I said on the day that the trade went down, this wasn’t on 100% on Fletcher. Hextall shares most of the responsibility imo. You can go back and read what I said about not liking this trade on the day that it happens and it has nothing to do with valuing Simmonds more than Hartman in a vacuum. It was more to do with the philosophy of valuing a bottom of the roster NHL player over draft picks.