Wayne & Mario vs Sakic & Yzerman in the 90s

[NHLNUT04]

these men are legends of the game. My vote goes to Sakic and Yerman only because I seen them in more games.

 

[blogofmike]

In the 1996 playoffs specifically? Sure, he was. As far as the decade goes, it's no contest (Gretzky and Lemieux), but Sakic played better than any other skater on the ice in the 1996 playoffs, bar none.

Sakic was the best skater if you look at the playoffs only. It's not so clear with the season as a whole. Also, the luck of playoff seeding meant Mario Lemieux played tougher defences than say, the Vancouver Canucks, leading to Sakic's 7 point lead (1.55 ppg to 1.50 ppg).

And as great as Sakic's run was, Lemieux comes within .05 ppg which is much closer to matching Joe's best run than Sakic or Yzerman can come to matching better runs by Lemieux and Gretzky in 91, 92, and 93.

 

[Kant Think]

The reason I have to going with Sakic and Yzerman is they are both alot younger than Mario and Wayne and in the later 90's had alot of team success. Both players could play in both ends of the ice as well and were both great playoff performers.

Even tho it seems most people would take 66 & 99 (Although I dont personally agree but I completely understand why) the question I now have is which forward would have to be added to Sakic and Yzerman to make you want to take them over Mario and Gretzky? Would it be someone like a 2nd line winger or is the gap much larger say a Modano or Messier?

Modano OR Messier?
As in players of relative equal values?

It would be like saying Crosby or Plekanec, no disrespect but one is a top 30 players of all time and the other one would be a fringe HOF if (big if in my opinion) he ever gets in.

By the way, I'm in no way a Messier fan, I never liked him but he is the FAR superior player here.

I don't mean to Hijack the thread, just pointing out the obvious here.

 

[YzerTheMan*]

If you could have either Wayne and Mario on your team from the 1990/91 - 1998/99 seasons or Sakic and Yzerman which combo would you choose? I decided to break down the combos season by season to arrive at my answer:

90/91 Season
Gretzky-78GP 41G 122A 163P
Mario- 26GP 19G 26A 45P
Total-104GP-60G-148A-208P

Playoffs: Mario explodes and wins his First Cup and Con Smyth trophy while Gretzky plays in 12 playoff games.

Sakic-80 48 61 109
Yzerman-80 51 57 108
Total-160GP-99G-118A-217P

Playoffs: Sakic misses the playoffs and Yzerman bows out in 7 games in the first round.

Edge: Mario and Gretzky- Even though Mario plays just 26 games in the season his playoffs are out of this world and he leads his team to their first Stanley Cup.

91/92 Season
Wayne 74 31 90 121
Mario 64 44 87 131
Total:138GP-75G-177A-252P

Playoffs: Mario again wins the Stanley Cup and gets 34 points while playing only 15 playoff games. Wayne bows out in the first round.

Sakic-69 29 65 94
Yzerman-79 45 58 103
Totals: 148GP-74G-123A-197 P

Playoffs:Sakic fails to make the playoffs again and Yzerman plays in only 11 games.

Edge: Again Mario and Wayne take it this year. Mario's playoffs and the fact you would have two players with over 120 points is enough to take 66 & 99.

92/93
Wayne-45 16 49 65
Mario-60 69 91 160
Total-105GP-85G-140A-225P

Playoffs: Wayne leads his team to the Cup finals while Mario gets upset by the NYI.

Sakic:78 48 57 105
Yzerman:84 58 79 137
Totals:162GP-106G-136A-242P

Playoffs: Both Sakic and Yzerman are first round exits.

Edge: Despite playing far less games I would still go with Mario and Wayne because of their Playoff success and Mario's massive 160 point season.

93/94

Wayne-81 38 92 130
Mario-22 17 20 37
Total: 103GP-55G-112A-167P

Playoffs:Wayne does not make the playoffs while the Penguins are eliminated first round

Sakic:84 28 64 92
Yzerman:58 24 58 82
Totals: 149GP-52G-122A-174P
Playoffs: Yzerman plays in only 3 games while Sakic misses the playoffs.

Edge: Very Close but Id still take Mario and Wayne.

94/95

Wayne-48 11 37 48
Mario- Did Not Play

Playoffs: Wayne does not make playoffs

Sakic:47 19 43 62
Yzerman-47 12 26 38
Totals: 94GP-31G-69A-100P

Playoffs: Yzerman makes it to the Stanley Cup finals before getting swept and Sakic is eliminated in the first round.

Edge: Sakic and Yzerman by a mile.

95/96
Wayne-80 23 79 102
Mario-70 69 92 161
Total: 150P-92G-171A-263P

Playoffs: Wayne is eliminated by Yzerman and Mario is eliminated by the Panthers the same team who Sakic sweeps in the Finals.

Sakic-82 51 69 120
Yzerman-80 36 59 95
Totals: 162GP-87G-128A-215P

Playoffs: Sakic scores 18 goals and wins his only Con Smyth and first Stanely Cup. Yzerman gets defeated by Sakic in the West final.

Edge: Probably the closest decision of the decade but I would take Sakic and Yzerman. Their playoff play and how Yzerman and the Wings win over 60 games is just to much not to take them.

96/97-

Wayne-82 25 72 97
Mario-76 50 72 122
Totals:158GP-75G-144A-219P

Playoffs: Wayne loses in the 3rd round while Mario plays his last game for a while in the first round defeat from Philly.

Sakic:65 22 52 74
Yzerman:81 22 63 85
Totals: 146GP-44G-115A-159P
Playoffs: Yzerman wins his first Stanley Cup and Sakic is eliminated in the West final by Yzerman.

Edge: Very slight edge to Sakic and Yzerman. Alot less points but both had good playoffs and a Cup tips the scale for them.

97/98
Wayne-82 23 67 90
Mario- Retired at the Time

Playoffs: Wayne does not make playoffs

Sakic:64 27 36 63
Yzerman:75 24 45 69
Total:139GP-51G-81A-132P

Playoffs: A first round playoff exit by Sakic while Yzerman wins his 2nd straight Stanley Cup and only Con Smyth Trophy.

Edge: Sakic and Yzerman by a mile.

98/99

Wayne70 9 53 62
Mario-Retired at the Time
Playoffs: Wayne does not qualify for the playoffs

Sakic: 73 41 55 96
Yzerman:80 29 45 74
Total: 153GP-70G-100A-170P

Playoffs: Yzerman loses in round 2 to Sakic and the Avs while Sakic loses in the West final to the Stanley Cup champ Stars.

Edge: Yzerman and Sakic no question.

Awards:

Wayne and Mario: 6 Art Ross trophies, 2 Hart Trophies, 2 Con Smyths, 2 Pearsons, 2 Lady Byngs, 4 First team all stars and 4 second team all stars.

Yzerman and Sakic: 2 Con Smyths.

I took Mario and Wayne 5 times and I took Sakic and Yzerman 5 times.

I would have to go with Sakic and Yzerman however, because they were injured far less, had better all round game (ie defense) and also had great playoff performances and offensive numbers.

I will probably get slammed for not taking any team with Mario and Wayne but Sakic and Yzerman are two of the greatest leaders and players the game has ever seen and in the 90s they were both in their primes and alot more healthy and younger then Mario and Wayne.

As the biggest Yzerman fan in the world (exaggerating) I am obviously still going to pick Wayne and Mario...

 

[Dangler99*]

Lemieux was running the 90's throw in Gretzky and well...

 

[Hardyvan123]

I would lose sleep at night if I chose anyone but Wayne and Mario. Considering that Gretzky led the 1990s in points at a time when he was "slowing down" you just can't ignore that.

I don't think Wayne and Mario from 1991-1999 would be much different than the 1987 Canada Cup. Yes, Gretzky would have slowed down in the 1990s since that time frame, but Mario was better for all of the 1990s than he was in 1987. It would still be pure poetry on the ice. We saw how those two dominated the stat sheet vs. the Russians in the 1987 Canada Cup but can you imagine them piling up the points against the Hartford Whalers of the NHL? If they really put their mind to it, I am wondering if 275 points is out of the question.

I'll take the Wayne and Mario combo but really do you think that Either Wayne or Mario could have scored 275 points in any season?

It seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Mario's best in Jr was 282 points as an 18 yr old in the Q which was really weak back then.

 

[Sens Rule]

I'll take the Wayne and Mario combo but really do you think that Either Wayne or Mario could have scored 275 points in any season?

It seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Mario's best in Jr was 282 points as an 18 yr old in the Q which was really weak back then.

If Mario somehow got drafted onto the Oilers, Let's say Sather pulled a move like the Habs did to get Lafleur. Then I think it is possible it could have happened. Imagine if the Oilers could have had Mario AND had the financial means to keep everyone. Hoe many Cups would they have won? How many more points would Mario and Gretzky have?

Let's assume somehow the Oilers do not lose anyone of consequence and do not dump all their players in the early 90's. I think they might win every Cup from 87-95 or 96, maybe longer.

Either they keep Mario with Gretzky or they split them up, doesn't matter either way both score more points.

Imagine this top 6 and Coffey, it would be that much sicker than the Oilers already were. I think the Oilers would have had some 500 goal seasons.

Mario-Gretzky-Kurri
Tikkanen-Messier-Anderson
Coffey

I imagine in a PEAK year where everyone was healthy if you had a Mario-Kurri-Gretzky line in say 87,88 or 89 you would be looking at a 60 goal 190 assists season by Gretzky, a 110 goal 225 point season by Mario, a 75 goal, 160 point season by Kurri. It would be so incredibly sick. I bet Coffey would get 50 goals and 150 points too.

 

[Merya]

I'll take Wayne and Mario and the 3+ cups they'll win the team in the early nineties.

 

[Big Phil]

I do agree with you if this were taking players in their primes but in the 90s Mario played half the games of Sakic and Yzerman. Thats a huge factor to consider.

Also Mario and Wayne in the playoffs didn't do nearly as much as Sakic and Yzerman did after the 94 season. 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Final appearances, 2 Con Smyths vs. none after 94 for Mario and Wayne.

There is a reason for that. After 1994 Mario played 2 more seasons in the 1990s. After 1994 Gretzky was never on a team that was good enough to make the final yet he made the semis and was a goal away from doing the same in 1996.

So you don't think that 275 points is possible with those two playing a full season?