OT: Washington Football Team: What's in a name?

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CapitalsCupReality

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This is bullshit. I haven't "convicted" him of anything. I said I'm inclined to believe women who say they've been victimized. I guess you're not. Fine.

The OJ reference was only by way of example that not every guilty person is convicted.

You have but ok.....you’re clearly on edge on this subject, so I’ll bow out after this post unless you feel like continuing.

don’t play games suggesting I’m OK with anything of the sort against any victim.

I could just as easily suggest he’s black and that’s why he’s already guilty in the eyes of so many, but I won’t pull that BS, so please stop with yours. Let’s stick with the evidence and facts that can be PROVED.

I’m ok letting the investigation play out before convicting him based off the press releases of his lawyer, are you?

Here’s my predicted resolution.....no criminal charges, it comes to light he frequently paid for these types of encounters, that there will ultimately be some large financial settlement to the girls, and that he will serve a suspension.

I really hope, if it’s true, and he’s a monster, that someone has some real proof that can lead to conviction and long sentence.
 
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Calicaps

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You have but ok.....you’re clearly on edge on this subject, so I’ll bow out after this post unless you feel like continuing.

don’t play games suggesting I’m OK with anything of the sort against any victim.

I could just as easily suggest he’s black and that’s why he’s already guilty in the eyes of so many, but I won’t pull that BS, so please stop with yours. Let’s stick with the evidence and facts that can be PROVED.

I’m ok letting the investigation play out before convicting him based off the press releases of his lawyer, are you?
I really haven’t and it's not for you to tell me what I think. And I'm not "on edge". I just don't believe that most women who say they've been victimized are lying for the slim chance of a payday.

For like the 5th time, yes I believe he's entitled to due process. All I'm saying is, if he's never charged or convicted, it may still be possible that he actually did the things he's accused of. Can you not see that? And that would be more common than not in terms of sexual assault cases.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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It’s up to me to tell you the observations I make....and that’s what I’ve made about you on this subject. I’d have to go check your posts, but at any point did you for one second suggest he was anything but guilty? Guessing nope....based on my recollection of the discussion.

you can choose to be unfair....that’s fine.

and yes, he most certainly could face no criminal charges because they don’t have enough real proof to convict (and still be guilty of something, what I won’t pretend to know).....that WILL however still make it easier to get monetary compensation.....The Goldman’s won that rather convincingly....if the evidence shows some sort of massive wrongdoing or inappropriate behavior these women will get compensation from the courts. Will they collect, that’s another question.

Questions that keep popping into my head, is if you really want justice for the women, why wasn’t HPD fully engaged before the civil suits? If true, put the monster away first, then come for compensation. Also, why the multiple requests to settle early? Very confusing strategy if you’re the lawyer “seeking justice”. Maybe @troyerlaw or someone with some legal chops can answer on that strategy...
 
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Calicaps

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Sigh. I guess I haven't been clear. I am not really talking about Watson specifically. I was talking about men who do the sorts of things he's accused of and the women who accuse them. There's a difference.

Did Watson do these things? We can't yet (maybe ever) know for sure. Sexual assault is difficult to prove to a criminal standard.

We can though choose to assume that women are telling the truth or that they are lying. I think it's less likely that they are lying than that they are telling the truth. That's all.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Sigh. I guess I haven't been clear. I am not really talking about Watson specifically. I was talking about men who do the sorts of things he's accused of and the women who accuse them. There's a difference.

Did Watson do these things? We can't yet (maybe ever) know for sure. Sexual assault is difficult to prove to a criminal standard.

We can though choose to assume that women are telling the truth or that they are lying. I think it's less likely that they are lying than that they are telling the truth. That's all.

from my perspective, your tone from the get go has been, if he gets off, look here, there’s a long history of predators escaping justice, no mention that the truth could even possibly be different. At face value you may agree with due process but your tone is that’s he’s already guilty.

You have your right to opinion on DW and can voice it, as can anyone here. Me expecting any kind of “wait and see” attitude on almost any subject vs instant judgement here is dumb. We can move on.
 

Calicaps

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from my perspective, your tone from the get go has been, if he gets off, look here, there’s a long history of predators escaping justice. At face value you may agree with due process but your tone is that’s he’s already guilty.

You have your right to opinion on DW and can voice it, as can anyone here. Me expecting any kind of “wait and see” attitude on almost any subject vs instant judgement here is dumb. We can move on.
So, me telling you what I actually mean is irrelevant then? Gotcha.
 

Ridley Simon

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You can both take any tone you want. This is no different than any difference of opinion discussion.

drawing your own conclusions based on the commentary and the facts as presented so far is absolutely normal. It’s also not exactly cut and dried from a male or female perspective. Historically, the odds are generally in favour of the man (especially when powerful). Occasionally a powerful woman will do the same. But far less in the percentages.

Obv as being a man, I don’t have the females perspective. I will say I have been involved with women that were victims of sexual assault, and it changed them forever. Never in a better way. Mistrust and pain generally lay there forever, even decades later.

so I could never judge a woman (or a man) that wants to look at a situation like this and doubt the accused. I’ve never been sexually assaulted and I already doubt the accused. I try to be fair, but this isn’t a simple “he said, she said”. It’s dozens of women. That’s not what we’d call a “small sample size”.

anyway, he’s due his due process from a criminal and civil perspective. No one says otherwise. But to assume people won’t determine their own mindset towards the story —all because “well, nothing has been PROVEN yet” — is not being at all realistic and looks to be a tad “high horse- ing” the issue. From where I sit.

I don’t know that he sexually assaulted anyone. However it’s clear he was sexually involved, and that many felt intimidated by the experience. Definitely sexual harassment.

In My Opinion, the NFL needs to come down hard on him, well before the courts make any determination. From their perspective, he has at best put them in a very negative light....and at worst is a serial predator. He should be suspended now. And then the length of the suspension (or termination) should be based on whatever truths come out.

maybe that’s harsh, but no more harsh than what at least 1 of these 22 women are feeling. Arguably all of them.

edit — he also broke the law. Paying for sexual encounters is against the law in 98% of our country. I’m not stating my feelings about the law, and candidly I personally don’t believe in the law. People “sell their wares” in so many different ways, I personally believe it’s prudish (and more about religious beliefs than anything) to prevent selling sexual encounters for money.

But it’s against the law so DW has already admitted for this they his attorney. He’s guilty of it. So the NFL can easily suspend him for it right now. And they should — not because of that crime per say — but because of the overall sorry here and the chances it will get far worse for them (the NFL) when more truths come out.

PS - to my edit. It mentioned the edit comments after @Calicaps liked my post. So if my personal commentary on the law offended, please remove the like, as this part of my post wasn’t part of what you read initially. Total transparency on this topic. As it’s warranted
 
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g00n

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"Why didn't she just go to the cops if she's telling the truth?" is no longer a valid argument, if it ever was. Women know better now.

Ask any woman about this. If she doesn't agree then leave the house and ask another. It won't take long to find someone who will tell you a story about how they or a friend tried to report an incident and got no action from whatever authority was in charge, including police.

Failure to follow up on rape tests is a known problem. It probably doesn't apply here but it's a symptom. The entire process is f***ed up and drags the victim through the mud, usually for no good reason and often without conclusion or conviction.

Plus we're talking about a guy who clearly was trying to skirt that line of consent. Seems like a version of "what have I got in my pocket". Ew.

Also, aside from the squickiness of shark-bumping women with your junk to troll for sex, there's the financial and psychological pressure inherent in the situation that makes whistleblowing less likely. DW had to have known this and it was probably key to his strategy.

Do you stop and walk out? Do you say something and continue? What do you do when he pretends it was an accident? Are you imagining things and making too big a deal of it? What if he insists on going farther and implies either additional payment or threats based on his power? How do you get power and leverage back? Will your business be ruined? Etc.

raw


Dennis had a boat. DW had a massage table.
 

BobbyClarkeFan16

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Nov 29, 2005
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Here's why I'm inclined to believe the women. There are 23 women who have reported him. None of them are acquaintances or friends with each other. They all pretty much tell the same story. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. Now, do I think there are some sketchy characters in there that might have tried to blackmail him? Absolutely. But, and this is what seals the deal for me, when Watson first said that he respected women and there was no relations to now his attorney saying there was consensual set, well, how did we go from no relations to consensual sex? To me, as soon as that narrative changed, that meant something happened.

As mentioned, I'm inclined to believe the women because 23 random people who don't know each other don't just all of a sudden decide to collude with one another to actively bury, humiliate and accuse someone of sexual improprieties.
 
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g00n

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Here's why I'm inclined to believe the women. There are 23 women who have reported him. None of them are acquaintances or friends with each other. They all pretty much tell the same story. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. Now, do I think there are some sketchy characters in there that might have tried to blackmail him? Absolutely. But, and this is what seals the deal for me, when Watson first said that he respected women and there was no relations to now his attorney saying there was consensual set, well, how did we go from no relations to consensual sex? To me, as soon as that narrative changed, that meant something happened.

As mentioned, I'm inclined to believe the women because 23 random people who don't know each other don't just all of a sudden decide to collude with one another to actively bury, humiliate and accuse someone of sexual improprieties.

Do you have a quote where he said nothing happened? DW's statement was a very carefully crafted redirection against the accusers but didn't address the allegations directly. It was an intentional sidestep with the "never treated any woman with anything other than total respect" or something to that effect.

IMO he was leaving the door open for mutual consent excuses because he talked about "respect" rather than simply denying the claims of sexual activity. He had to know there were dozens of these women out there and sooner or later a full-blown denial would be an obvious lie. So he crafted the "respect" defense.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Here's why I'm inclined to believe the women. There are 23 women who have reported him. None of them are acquaintances or friends with each other. They all pretty much tell the same story. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. Now, do I think there are some sketchy characters in there that might have tried to blackmail him? Absolutely. But, and this is what seals the deal for me, when Watson first said that he respected women and there was no relations to now his attorney saying there was consensual set, well, how did we go from no relations to consensual sex? To me, as soon as that narrative changed, that meant something happened.

As mentioned, I'm inclined to believe the women because 23 random people who don't know each other don't just all of a sudden decide to collude with one another to actively bury, humiliate and accuse someone of sexual improprieties.

yeah I also need to see that DW quote changing his story...

and as far as the chain of events, did 23 people randomly decide to file suit at one time independently or did one lawyer go fishing and ultimately find 23 plaintiffs?

and why not formally go to the DA if you’re the lawyer BEFORE attempting to settle and being denied? That doesn’t seem F ‘ing odd to anyone?! If he settled, what, this is all swept under the rug? Some justice for the victims there. Lawyer could have presented all the appropriately redacted evidence without ever exposing a single woman until they were sure the police wanted to prosecute.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Do you have a quote where he said nothing happened? DW's statement was a very carefully crafted redirection against the accusers but didn't address the allegations directly. It was an intentional sidestep with the "never treated any woman with anything other than total respect" or something to that effect.

IMO he was leaving the door open for mutual consent excuses because he talked about "respect" rather than simply denying the claims of sexual activity. He had to know there were dozens of these women out there and sooner or later a full-blown denial would be an obvious lie. So he crafted the "respect" defense.

his only defense is consent....no doubt. Too many to deny anything at all happened. I hope justice is served, I really do.
 

Random schmoe

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In more entertaining news: Valdovinos' 3-Round 2021 NFL Mock Draft: Who moves up for Fields?
7. Washington Football Team (via DET): Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State
Proposed trade: Washington sends picks #19, 51, 124, a 2022 1st and 3rd to Detroit for pick #7.

Multiple sources have said that Washington is interested in moving up for a quarterback. Justin Fields fits the physical thresholds Ron Rivera wants in a quarterback. Big frame, strong arm, outstanding running ability.

Fields also portrays the type of person Rivera expects of his players. He is an elite leader, a player willing to put his body on the line to win for his team; he is someone his teammates rally around.

Fields falls to No. 7 here, and Washington gives Detroit a package of picks for their rebuild. Fields will compete with Ryan Fitzpatrick to be the team’s Week 1 starter and take over when Rivera feels he’s the team’s best.

Ew.
Nope.
 

Random schmoe

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I don't trade up at all.

If one of the top QBs, LBs or OTs doesn't fall to them, I trade down and accumulate more picks. This team still has a long way to go to be good long term, and getting +/- 3 decent long term starters at various positions is better than 1 very good one. IMHO.
 
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