Jacoby4HOF66
Pull my finger
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I thought at the time reading Taylor injured his chest in warmups sounded hinky. It was but for a completely different reason.
OT: Washington Football Team 2020 Season Thread 11: Week 1 Edition
- Thread starter AlexBrovechkin8
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Jacoby4HOF66
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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It would be soooo Redskins to pass on Scherff and then he regains All Pro form with another team. To be determined if thats also soooo Football Team like as well.
Agreed that his play hasn't warranted a big extension, but this is just how this team rolls. Homegrown draft pick success story not resigned for reasons X, Y or Z, goes on to great things elsewhere. Seen this movie before.
Jacoby4HOF66
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Yes we have seen that movie before. And him not being a Rivera draft pick is a factor as well along with injury history. Also, he is a UFA after this year. He may want to move on.
Ovechkins Wodka
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Jacoby4HOF66
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That’s good leadership. Gruden would’ve thrown Apke under the bus. For good reason.
I’m sure Ron and Jack are all over Apke inside the room. We are seeing what outside the room should look like from professionals.
Holtbyisms
Matt Irwin is a legit talent
Hopefully that's the case. If Apke becomes one of their pet players and I have to watch more than a year of him I'm going to be pissed. lol...
CaptainAmerica
OV >>>>>> Crosby
No disrespect to Burrow, but that LSU team was stacked with talent. The jury is still out on Burrow. You have to remember that he got beat out by Dwayne "the bum' Haskins at Ohio State. He can't be that amazing if Haskins was able to beat him out.
I think Fields is going to be amazing. In the same category as Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, & Russel Wilson. He's a legit dual threat and as we can see the NFL is following the college with multi dimensional QBs that can make something out of nothing and also throw while on the run/outside of the pocket.
Ovechkins Wodka
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Turned out great for one year, 2012 has been the best year of my football life and I'm 34. RGIII didn't work out for a plethora of reasons but wasn't because he was a mobile QB. Those reasons included his strange inability to slide and his unwillingness to protect himself while scrambling, an inability to properly read defenses from the pocket which rendered him effectively useless once teams stopped him from using his legs, the garbage sandbox they called "turf" at FedEx Field, and a combined failure on all of his, Shanahan's, and the team doctor's parts in keeping him out there playing when he was clearly broken during the Seattle playoff game which zapped a lot of his mobility (and confidence).
As I was mentioning to @EroCaps last weekend, young QBs who have success the fastest in the NFL are typically mobile QBs who can make plays with their legs as they're still learning pro passing concepts. Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Dak Prescott, Deshaun Watson, Cam Newton, Carson Wentz, RGIII, Andrew Luck, etc all saw success quickly because they could make plays with their legs if protection broke down which also keeps opposing pass rushers on their heels. The question of staying power and if they can take it to the next level comes when it's determined whether or not they can make plays through the air once teams scheme to take away their legs. Some like Mahomes, Prescott, or Wilson proved that they can be just as deadly through the air and some the jury is still out, like Jackson and Wentz. Obviously we know the answer to RGIII there as well.
When was the last time a pure pocket passer tore it up early in his career?
Jacoby4HOF66
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Peyton Manning? 28 INTs his first year but he threw for 26 TDs and 3700 yards. That’s pretty good for a rookie pocket QB. Can’t think of any others. Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc. didn’t start their rookie years.
To the rest of your post, spot on.
In the modern era?
Tom Brady
Phil Rivers
Big Ben
Peyton Manning
Jared Goff
Matthew Stafford
Joe Burrow (already looks fantastic)
The list of pocket passers who took 3-4 years to boom is much shorter.
Yes, these are elite QBs, and yes, this is what you need to have a realistic shot at a Super Bowl.
The majority fo elite QBs today are either dual-threats or are excellent in the pocket.
Haskins is neither, and his accuracy down the field is sub-par. He's basically f***ed.
What does this even mean? We had a mobile QB once and it didn't pan out so we should not draft another mobile QB? Thats as absurd as saying "we drafted a pocket passer once and it didn't work out so ... " you get the point.
RGIII didn't fail because he was a highly mobile QB. He failed because he lost his mobility and had nothing else to fall back on. The blueprint for a successful QB doesn't exist, one should not try to force something there. Some mobile QBs are successful, and some mobile QBs fail. Each one is unique in their reasons, but it generally all boils down to this: A QB still needs to be a great passer.
Ovechkins Wodka
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RG3 season was also my favorite as a Redskins fan. But we broke him in like 14 games, hopefully the new staff with coach Ron can develop Haskins.
If Haskins sucks enough to get us Trevor you take him 100%
If Haskins sucks enough to get us Trevor you take him 100%
g00n
Retired Global Mod
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You know this how?
Haskins has 32 games in college and pro, and has NINE pro starts. His Freshman season at Ohio State he played 8 games and had just 57 pass attempts, so you can barely even count that.
So we're talking about a 23 year old who's had one full season in college (where he excelled), a seven game rookie season in the NFL for a lame duck coach who hated him and refused to train him (2-5), and 2 games under a new coach (1-1).
Why don't we wait and see what happens?
Regarding your list:
Tom Brady - future HOF and a backup at age 23 to Bledsoe
Phil Rivers - 4 unremarkable games first 2 seasons as 3rd string behind Brees and Flutie
Big Ben - future HOF, not exactly a pocket passer, had a bad year as a 24 year old
Peyton Manning - future HOF, more INT than TD and losing record rookie year
Jared Goff - 0-7 as rookie, more INT than TD
Matthew Stafford - more INT than TD rookie year
Joe Burrow (already looks fantastic) - has played 2 games and is 0-2 as a rookie
But sure. It's the NORM for rookie pocket passers to just show up and kill it in the NFL as a starter. They all do it immediately, and since Haskins has not run the table after his first 9 games he's a bust.
I think I'll wait a bit. At least another week.
Hmm might want to go back and check out how those QBs did at first.
Tom Brady appeared in 1 game his rookie year and threw 3 passes. Big jump in year 2.
Phil Rivers sat for two years behind Drew Brees and then took over a team with a stacked roster that included multiple All-Pros and future HoFers including LaDanian Tomlinson, Lorenzo Neil, Antonio Gates, and Keenan McCardell at the skill positions.
Big Ben - check, but he was huge and could make plays with his legs too.
Peyton Manning had a really rough rookie year. They went 3-13 and he threw 28 interceptions. Big jump in year two.
Jared Goff went 0-7 in the games he played his rookie year and averaged 1 interception per game. Big jump in year two with better coaching.
Stafford went 2-8 his rookie year and threw 20 INTs in 10 games. He played in 3 games his sophomore year and didn't become the full time starter until year 3.
So all of these guys except Ben struggled their first year. Some didn't become starters until their third year. Some saw big jumps in their second year. All that is to say, to say they all looked terrific as pocket passers right off the bat isn't altogether accurate. And none of them had to deal with not having an offseason like the young QBs this year had to deal with.
Haskins needs to dramatically improve -- no arguments here -- but he was always drafted as a project. He also has a first-time OC trying to figure out how to call plays too.
Jacoby4HOF66
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Listed to Cooleys breakdown of the game. My highlights:
- Haskins was bad. Or as Cooley said “not good enough”. Cooley said the Skins are running a HS level offensive system and he said it was because of Haskins without actually saying it. Haskins struggles really bad against ARI. Cooley also said Haskins can’t throw to his right very well. All his completions and successful runs are to the left. Have to pay attention to that this week. Not a positive trait.
- O-line player pretty good. Grades for the line from LT to RT: B-, B, C, B+, B+. Said Christian and Martin showed dramatic improvement over week one.
-Cooley admits he was wrong when he said TM wasn’t a true #1 WR last week. TM played like he was against ARI.
-McCissik needs more touches.
-D line was great again. Got worn down by Murray and the offenses inability to sustain drives so the D can rest.
- LBs had a good game considering they were chasing Murray around. Huge improvement over last week. Pierre-Louis had a great game. 13 tackles and all over the field.
-Secondary let the defense down. Still have more to listen to.
- Haskins was bad. Or as Cooley said “not good enough”. Cooley said the Skins are running a HS level offensive system and he said it was because of Haskins without actually saying it. Haskins struggles really bad against ARI. Cooley also said Haskins can’t throw to his right very well. All his completions and successful runs are to the left. Have to pay attention to that this week. Not a positive trait.
- O-line player pretty good. Grades for the line from LT to RT: B-, B, C, B+, B+. Said Christian and Martin showed dramatic improvement over week one.
-Cooley admits he was wrong when he said TM wasn’t a true #1 WR last week. TM played like he was against ARI.
-McCissik needs more touches.
-D line was great again. Got worn down by Murray and the offenses inability to sustain drives so the D can rest.
- LBs had a good game considering they were chasing Murray around. Huge improvement over last week. Pierre-Louis had a great game. 13 tackles and all over the field.
-Secondary let the defense down. Still have more to listen to.
CaptainAmerica
OV >>>>>> Crosby
RG3 was great his first year. The problem with him was that every time he got hit it looked like a car accident. He wasn’t agile/elusive. He also didn’t know how to slide or nimbly slide out of bounds before taking a gigantic hit.
In comparison Kyler and Russel are more agile. You never see them taking monster hits like RG3 did.
CapitalsCupReality
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way to shift the goalposts for your own amusement lol..
The ask was “tore it up early in his career”.....first 2-3 years count for me in that broad definition, but it looks like you and Abro want to tag team, so enjoy!
g00n
Retired Global Mod
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It's not shifting the goalposts. How long has Haskins been in the league? How much experience does he have? That's the topic. He's at a point in his career that's comparable to the rookie seasons of the players on that list. It's also unfair to try and compare him to some of the greatest QBs of all time, or to operate under the assumption that some 23 year old who isn't "tearing it up" by now is some kind of rare exception.
If you want to play semantics over definitions you can clear it up with Abro, who asked the question and said almost the exact same things I did.
Jacoby4HOF66
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As Alex says, Griffin failed because he couldn’t protect himself. His ego played a role as well but that’s a different topic.
I’ll take a mobile QB like Russell Wilson, and Kyler Murray. Even Mahommes played baseball. Ex-baseball players that are crazy mobile but also know how to friggin slide and ex-baseball players can throw the friggin football. Can’t be a successful mobile QB without knowing how to slide.
I can still remember when Zorn whipped out the slip n slide to try to teach Jason Campbell how to slide. What a joke. QBs who can’t slide is a huge red flag for me.
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