Was Vinny Lecavalier's career a slight disappointment?

The Panther

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Slight?

Take away his one Rocket Richard trophy season and he's a nobody.
That's just not accurate, no.

Take away his one Rocket Richard trophy season, and he still has:
- one 40-goal, 90+ point season
- four 30+ goal seasons (and another at 29)
- 16-point playoff + Stanley Cup, and another 19 points in 18 games run
- MVP of 2004 World Cup

He's not a Hall of Famer with or without his 2006-07 season, but neither is he a nobody without it.
 

VanIslander

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- one 40-goal, 90+ point season
40 goals? That was 10th most that season. And there have been 26 seasons in which 10 or more players have scored 40 goals. History will forget that.
- four 30+ goal seasons (and another at 29)
History is littered with guts who have done this.
- 16-point playoff + Stanley Cup, and another 19 points in 18 games run
4th in team points on a single championship team? That is forgettable. Zero game winners (teammates had 7,3,3). 6th in team assists. Really secondary footnote to a franchise thing. Not even newsworthy leaguewide at the time it happened. History will be indifferent.
- MVP of 2004 World Cup
This is one significant thing. Though that year's World Cup is not as remembered as 1998 and is more on par with the 1984 Canada Cup. Who was MVP of the 1984 Canada Cup? John Tonelli. How many hockey fans today even know what position he played??????????? He won the Canada Cup MVP, was top 6 in team playoff scoring (63 pts) for a 4-cup dynasty, was a Selke finalist, scored 42 goals in a season, had 93- and 100-point seasons, a two-time 2nd team NHL all star and yet - to my point - some would classify him (now, looking back historically) as a nobody, at least in any conversation of stars in hockey history.
 
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GlitchMarner

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40 goals? That was 10th most that season. And there have been 26 seasons in which 10 or more players have scored 40 goals. History will forget that.

History is littered with guts who have done this.

4th in team points on a single championship team? That is forgettable. Zero game winners (teammates had 7,3,3). 6th in team assists. Really secondary footnote to a franchise thing. Not even newsworthy leaguewide at the time it happened. History will be indifferent.

This is one significant thing. Though that year's World Cup is not as remembered as 1998 and is more on par with the 1984 Canada Cup. Who was MVP of the 1984 Canada Cup? John Tonelli. How many hockey fans today even know what position he played??????????? He won the Canada Cup MVP, was top 6 in team playoff scoring (63 pts) for a 4-cup dynasty, was a Selke finalist, scored 42 goals, had 93- and 100-point seasons, a two-time 2nd team NHL all star and some would classify him (now, looking back historically) as a nobody, at least in any conversation of stars in hockey history.

He had the fifth most points in the NHL from 2002-2003 to 2007-2008.

NHL.com - Stats

He was tied for 12th in points per game among players that played at least 200 games during that span.

NHL.com - Stats


He was a superstar level player during that time frame.
 

The Panther

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Who was MVP of the 1984 Canada Cup? John Tonelli. How many hockey fans today even know what position he played??????????? He won the Canada Cup MVP, was top 6 in team playoff scoring (63 pts) for a 4-cup dynasty, was a Selke finalist, scored 42 goals in a season, had 93- and 100-point seasons, a two-time 2nd team NHL all star and yet - to my point - some would classify him (now, looking back historically) as a nobody, at least in any conversation of stars in hockey history.
It's funny you mention that, because I was going to say that if we take away Lecavalier's 2005-06 season, his career is basically John Tonelli.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about, though. No one's saying Lecavalier is a Hall of Famer. Just that he's hardly a "nobody" with or without 2006 (nor was Tonelli).
 

GlitchMarner

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It's funny you mention that, because I was going to say that if we take away Lecavalier's 2005-06 season, his career is basically John Tonelli.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about, though. No one's saying Lecavalier is a Hall of Famer. Just that he's hardly a "nobody" with or without 2006 (nor was Tonelli).

Was Lecavalier's '06 season really all that special anyway, though?

He was better in '03, '07 and '08 and maybe in '04 as well.
 

The Panther

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You're talking about 2005-2006, right?

He was 39th in scoring that season.

He was a top 20 scorer in '03 and a top ten scorer in '07 and '08.


He was a top 30 scorer and was +23 in '04.
My bad. I meant say "2006-07".

(2005-06 is a weird one in that both Lecavalier and St.Louis were surprisingly modest in production.)
 
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WTFMAN99

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I think he can sleep soundly at night. Lots of money, a cup, some individual hardware....maybe he didn't live up to some people's expectations but he's already accomplished more than most.
 

Killion

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I think he can sleep soundly at night. Lots of money, a cup, some individual hardware....maybe he didn't live up to some people's expectations but he's already accomplished more than most.

Yeah, thats well said. Considered "soft" by some. I prefer "elegant". Enjoyed watching him. Classy player.
 

Jacob

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His career PPG is hurt by a really terrible start and finish to his career, but for like an 8 year stretch he was a legit #1 center on a competitive team.

He didn't quite live up to the hype surrounding him as a prospect though, no.
 

CupsOverCash

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If he would have stayed healthy I think he would still be playing. Cooke really killed his career.
 

VanIslander

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...Cooke really killed his career.
5'11 Cooke? the notoriously hardest worker in training camp (refusing to come off other than last, causing him and Brashear - at a Canucks training camp I was an accredited reporter at in Kamloops - to skate a full hour plus extra one training camp skate)... killing the career of a 6'4 tall guy.

This is like 6'4 Mario Lemieux whining about 5'11 Darius Kasparaitis.

Or 5'11 Peca and his many "Captain Crunch" hits against tall NHLers who need to learn to KEEP YOUR HEAD UP! (Psst! If you do, a guy 5 inches shorter than you will not clean your clock!)

Lindros' mistake 101.

To say Cooke killed Lacavalier's career is an indictment of Vinny. Big guys often didn't have their head on a swivel... too bad, their bad.
 
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Michael Farkas

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Nick Hansen

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1:43. It's more a thing of Lecavalier's arm having an awkward angle thus injuring the shoulder more than anything else IMO. He also broke his hand in 2010.

 
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vadim sharifijanov

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i think part of why it was hard for me to root for lecavalier is the proximity to MSL. you just watch marty and the legs are always pumping. he not only works harder than anyone else on the ice, due to his size and the way he skated he also looked like he was working harder than everyone on the ice.

and then you have this tall guy gliding around making it all look so easy...
 

Vanzig

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I think he was a bit of a disappointment, The NHL sold him as the next best thing and scouts rated him very high. His CUP win was huge and had he not had that I don’t know if he would have been put in the HOF. I mean his overall Career PPG Average isn’t earth shattering or anything!!

He had a few great seasons and a lot of people I know always compared HIM and St. Louis and Both had up and down seasons in their career. But he still didn’t suck if u know what i mean but not in the elite of the elite in my opinion.
 

GlitchMarner

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I think he was a bit of a disappointment, The NHL sold him as the next best thing and scouts rated him very high. His CUP win was huge and had he not had that I don’t know if he would have been put in the HOF. I mean his overall Career PPG Average isn’t earth shattering or anything!!

He had a few great seasons and a lot of people I know always compared HIM and St. Louis and Both had up and down seasons in their career. But he still didn’t suck if u know what i mean but not in the elite of the elite in my opinion.

Lecavalier isn't in the HOF.
 

Jim MacDonald

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Start at :47. Lecavalier was never quite as good after the shoulder injury he got from that play.


Boy I don't want to derail the thread...but Cooke is quite the POS after watching this.....did he leave is feet when he hit Lecavalier?? I'm gonna look again...I wonder if there is a "Raise your hand if you dislike Matt Cooke" thread in HoH!
 

streitz

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5'11 Cooke? the notoriously hardest worker in training camp (refusing to come off other than last, causing him and Brashear - at a Canucks training camp I was an accredited reporter at in Kamloops - to skate a full hour plus extra one training camp skate)... killing the career of a 6'4 tall guy.

This is like 6'4 Mario Lemieux whining about 5'11 Darius Kasparaitis.

Or 5'11 Peca and his many "Captain Crunch" hits against tall NHLers who need to learn to KEEP YOUR HEAD UP! (Psst! If you do, a guy 5 inches shorter than you will not clean your clock!)

Lindros' mistake 101.

To say Cooke killed Lacavalier's career is an indictment of Vinny. Big guys often didn't have their head on a swivel... too bad, their bad.



Well look at the flip side, if Lecavalier played for the Canucks he would be the best player in their history.

nhl_g_lecavalier_b1_600x400.jpg
 

VanIslander

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No.

Or are you ridiculously suggesting he was one of the top-3 Lightning players on their championship run???? He wasn't in any way.

Or are you suggesting he would have done more than any Canuck? Linden scored two goals in the 7th game Stanley Cup Final 3-2 loss in '94. Vinny would have done better?

Or sub Vinny for Kesler or a Sedin in their most recent cup run?

Silliness. Absurdity.

But championships aside, if you are implying careerwise... Lecavalier was better than the Sedins, Luongo, Kesler, Linden AND Bure? THIS is the least absurd claim and it still falls short.

Even talentwise he ain't (clearly, we can at least agree on this eh?).
 
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