Was Vinny Lecavalier's career a slight disappointment?

sr edler

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Mar 20, 2010
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Yeah, it's interesting from 1992–1996, 4 out of 5 1st overall picks were defensemen, and most of them (except Berard) had long careers but all were just good-to-very-good-at-times, but none of them comes close to any sort of HHOF level, and before and after that period you have only forwards and goalies (after) plus Erik Johnson (who's had a long career so far, but only a good one, not near great).
 

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Had a good career, probably the 3rd best #1 pick of the 90's (Behind Lindros and Thornton), never got to be quite the "Michael Jordan of hockey" but still a good player.
 

Terry Yake

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Aug 5, 2013
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yes i'd say his career was a slight disappointment if you take into consideration the hype surrounding him when he first came into the league

he didn't hit his prime until 26 and it only lasted two seasons because matt cooke happened and he was never the same player after that, although he played another 7-8 years. but all in all, he had a hall of very good caliber career
 
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The Macho King

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I watched most of his career. It's... disappointing. It's tough to balance because he's THE Lightning player to me, the Captain, and the first number retired in the organization's history. I love the guy.

He was never the same after Cooke, but there are legitimate questions as to why he didn't peak sooner. He seemed built for pre-lockout hockey. Big guy, skilled... but he didn't play like his size. It turns out post-lockout hockey suited him more. Not to say he wasn't physical, but he was a player that preferred to have the open space to make his moves, which it was hard to do pre-05.

His 2011 run was amazing though. It was nice to see that from him after some rough years. But while 05-10 were great years for his skillset, as the league (and the Lightning) got faster, he started to lag behind.

The hype was unfortunate, because it was a lot for an 18 year old to take on considering how shitty the franchise was. He was asked to carry too much, too soon, and he butted heads a lot with Torts. Eventually they made it work, and maybe Vinny needed it, but it took awhile.
 

Austerlitz

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Jun 26, 2018
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Its funny because, for several years, there was kind of a see-saw battle between him and Thornton as to who the better big, first overall center was. Thornton's longevity makes that a distant memory now.
 
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ForsbergForever

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May 19, 2004
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Its funny because, for several years, there was kind of a see-saw battle between him and Thornton as to who the better big, first overall center was. Thornton's longevity makes that a distant memory now.

That and the extra 500+ points that Joe has racked up. I've read elsewhere that it wasn't just the Cooke hit that caused Vinny's production to nose dive. Apparently he wasn't that dedicated to the game and kind of started mailing it in to a certain extent after signing his mega-deal. Of course I can't support this statement, only repeating what I read on a forgotten thread. As mentioned here, he didn't really hit his stride until age 26, then two great years and then falls back to average to bad seasons afterwards. I personally thought that his 2004 World Cup MVP award signalled his arrival as a legit superstar for years to come but alas it was not to be. Man did I ever want the Habs to trade for him and fulfill the prophesy so to speak but again things just didn't work out.
 
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MarkusKetterer

Shoulda got one game in
That and the extra 500+ points that Joe has racked up. I've read elsewhere that it wasn't just the Cooke hit that caused Vinny's production to nose dive. Apparently he wasn't that dedicated to the game and kind of started mailing it in to a certain extent after signing his mega-deal. Of course I can't support this statement, only repeating what I read on a forgotten thread. As mentioned here, he didn't really hit his stride until age 26, then two great years and then falls back to average to bad seasons afterwards. I personally thought that his 2004 World Cup MVP award signalled his arrival as a legit superstar for years to come but alas it was not to be. Man did I ever want the Habs to trade for him and fulfill the prophesy so to speak but again things just didn't work out.

Nuts to think the Habs offered Price, Pacioretty and Subban for him. In hindsight, they shoulda taken that and ran.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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Nuts to think the Habs offered Price, Pacioretty and Subban for him. In hindsight, they shoulda taken that and ran.

did that really happen?


pacioretty stamkos MSL
palat johnson kucherov

brewer subban
carle hedman

price


and later


pacioretty johnson kucherov
palat stamkos filppula

stralman subban
garrison hedman

price

those are some cups right?
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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Yes, he only lived up to his promise for a couple of seasons, and then he got injured, and never recaptured that. I always thought him and Thornton had fairly similar start to their careers, but Thornton maintained as an elite player for a long time whereas Vinny fell off. Both started young with struggles, emerged as very good but not top 10 players in the league, and then suddenly cemented themselves there. It lasted 2 years for Vinny, for Thornton he was in the discussion for a decade, with high-end season's following it.
 
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MarkusKetterer

Shoulda got one game in
did that really happen?


pacioretty stamkos MSL
palat johnson kucherov

brewer subban
carle hedman

price


and later


pacioretty johnson kucherov
palat stamkos filppula

stralman subban
garrison hedman

price

those are some cups right?

It did! Well according to Brian Lawton. Bob Gainey claims it was Plekanec, Gorges, Chris Higgins and either Subban or McDonagh.
 

trentmccleary

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Mar 2, 2002
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He averaged a 61-80 point pace 10 times in 13 seasons between 2000-2013. The only exceptions being a tough 2002 season and the two years he was on a line with Martin St. Louis. Are people using the Cooke hit, while ignoring tangible changes in Lecavalier's linemate situation and a dip in NHL scoring.
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
3,794
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IMO, he's at the top of the HOVG. To me, his entry and exit from the NHL cloud the optics (IE he doesn't exactly tear it up like you'd expect a forward taken at 1OA to do, and then has a huge dip in his 4th year. To end, he's bought out before struggling and then moves to a new team only after assuring them he'll retire after the season.

I think if Tampa had done like it was rumored and found a way to pay another team to buy him out so they could re-sign him for cheaper, he'd have a better shot. His game probably doesn't fall off as dramatically as it did in Philadelphia so he probably eclipses 1000pts and gets near 500 goals, and he probably gets some fanfare with the Lightnings success that continued after he was bought out.

Man did I ever want the Habs to trade for him and fulfill the prophesy so to speak but again things just didn't work out.

The only thing I remember from the 2009 All Star Game was the huge ovation that Lecavalier got from the Montreal crowd because that was right around when the rumors of him going to the Habs were swirling.
 

Big Phil

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Nov 2, 2003
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Art Williams, who had the hockey IQ of a bag of hammers, called him the "Michael Jordan of Hockey" once he was drafted. This was because Jordan was hot at the time retiring after winning his 6th championship. That was a bit of hyperbole, but the things he said after that sentence weren't. Williams said some things that should have been correct as well. He said that for sure he is a "future Hall of Famer" and that in "3, 4, 5 years he'll be the best player in the game." Those two claims were not crazy to see happening.

I think people forget about the hype of Lecavalier. He was hyped up quite a bit in his draft year. Other than the odd scout who liked David Legwand better - I never understood this - it was Lecavalier that was miles ahead of the rest of the pack. A skilled forward with at times a bit of a mean streak who was 6'4" and could stickhandle as good as anyone. It had scouts drooling. Colorado had 4 1st round picks in 1998 and if I remember correctly they offered Tampa that for the 1st overall pick.

The thing I never understood was why it took him so long to hit his stride. He had a good 2nd season with 67 points and then two seasons where he was going backwards. I am not sure where he fits on the 2002 Olympic team but that start in 2001-'02 ensured he was not making the team. Ironically, Thornton started slow too but had really hit his stride by 2001 and 2002 and never looked back. Lecavalier took longer than that. Even in 2004 he had 66 points and you'd expect him to be vying for the Art Ross by then. 3 players on the Lightning that year outpointed him: St. Louis, Stillman and Richards. In the playoffs he was 4th in scoring with even Frederik Modin outpointing him. I am not saying he didn't have some big moments that spring, I am just saying you expected more.

The 2004 World Cup MVP happened but keep in mind he was only added to the team when Yzerman bowed out. Richards was picked before him without any injury replacements. But you felt post lockout he would start dominating, yet he didn't right away. 2006 he had a strange season with 75 points. 3rd in Lightning scoring.

2007 and 2008 were great years, I know Cooke nailed him right at the end of the 2008 season but how much do people think this affected him? I know Cooke can be public enemy #1 but the hit didn't look bad at all. It was just a shoulder check. I know it was worse than it looked but I know for sure that in the summer of 2009 he was still thought to be on the 2010 Olympic team and his early play that year sort of made him an afterthought. Other centers such as Staal, Richards, Toews, Getzlaf and Bergeron replaced him. And despite being just 29 he never got back to that high level. Which is a shame, he was a treat to watch.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Art Williams, who had the hockey IQ of a bag of hammers, called him the "Michael Jordan of Hockey" once he was drafted. This was because Jordan was hot at the time retiring after winning his 6th championship. That was a bit of hyperbole, but the things he said after that sentence weren't. Williams said some things that should have been correct as well. He said that for sure he is a "future Hall of Famer" and that in "3, 4, 5 years he'll be the best player in the game." Those two claims were not crazy to see happening.

I think people forget about the hype of Lecavalier. He was hyped up quite a bit in his draft year. Other than the odd scout who liked David Legwand better - I never understood this - it was Lecavalier that was miles ahead of the rest of the pack. A skilled forward with at times a bit of a mean streak who was 6'4" and could stickhandle as good as anyone. It had scouts drooling. Colorado had 4 1st round picks in 1998 and if I remember correctly they offered Tampa that for the 1st overall pick.

The thing I never understood was why it took him so long to hit his stride. He had a good 2nd season with 67 points and then two seasons where he was going backwards. I am not sure where he fits on the 2002 Olympic team but that start in 2001-'02 ensured he was not making the team. Ironically, Thornton started slow too but had really hit his stride by 2001 and 2002 and never looked back. Lecavalier took longer than that. Even in 2004 he had 66 points and you'd expect him to be vying for the Art Ross by then. 3 players on the Lightning that year outpointed him: St. Louis, Stillman and Richards. In the playoffs he was 4th in scoring with even Frederik Modin outpointing him. I am not saying he didn't have some big moments that spring, I am just saying you expected more.

The 2004 World Cup MVP happened but keep in mind he was only added to the team when Yzerman bowed out. Richards was picked before him without any injury replacements. But you felt post lockout he would start dominating, yet he didn't right away. 2006 he had a strange season with 75 points. 3rd in Lightning scoring.

2007 and 2008 were great years, I know Cooke nailed him right at the end of the 2008 season but how much do people think this affected him? I know Cooke can be public enemy #1 but the hit didn't look bad at all. It was just a shoulder check. I know it was worse than it looked but I know for sure that in the summer of 2009 he was still thought to be on the 2010 Olympic team and his early play that year sort of made him an afterthought. Other centers such as Staal, Richards, Toews, Getzlaf and Bergeron replaced him. And despite being just 29 he never got back to that high level. Which is a shame, he was a treat to watch.
A lot of it - and I think this is common - is the moves that worked so well in junior never translated to the NHL. I get a little... iffy on puckhandlers now because of that. You can put together a hell of a highlight package, but it is just tough to pull off in the NHL.

Vinny also always went for the fancy play. I can't tell you how many times he tried to score a goal between his legs.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
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A lot of it - and I think this is common - is the moves that worked so well in junior never translated to the NHL. I get a little... iffy on puckhandlers now because of that. You can put together a hell of a highlight package, but it is just tough to pull off in the NHL.

Vinny also always went for the fancy play. I can't tell you how many times he tried to score a goal between his legs.

Yeah, maybe part of that is it. Deking the defenseman out in junior doesn't always translate into the pros. Vinny did that have style where he had the puck in front of him a lot when he was skating so right away you can tell he's probably going to attempt to stickhandle. It worked in Game 7 of the Cup final in 2004. But I can assume it would work less in the pros overall.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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Slight?

Take away his one Rocket Richard trophy season and he's a nobody.

He wasn't even top-3 in team goals or assists or points in their Stanley Cup championship.

He has a 7-year stretch of significance, as an above average player, outside of which he was... blah.

For a 1st overall pick his career was AT BEST an average one.

You would expect a HHOF-calibre player at 1st overall. Vinny wasn't that.

(Heck, Vinny Damphousse was a better player!)
 
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Thenameless

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Apr 29, 2014
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Slight?

Take away his one Rocket Richard trophy season and he's a nobody.

He wasn't even top-3 in team goals or assists or points in their Stanley Cup champipnship.

He has a 7-year stretch of significance, as an above average player, outside of which he was... blah.

For a 1st overall pick his career was AT BEST an average one.

You would expect a HHOF-calibre player at 1st overall. Vinny wasn't that.

(Heck, Vinny Damphousse was a better player!)

You're hurtin' me man.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,133
6,428
You're hurtin' me man.
Sorry to disappoint you.

My Trevor Linden also had a disappointing career, all things considered. Everything was hunky dory through his ironman streak. Then he turned 26 years old and his career went to pot. :(
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
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My Trevor Linden also had a disappointing career, all things considered. Everything was hunky dory through his ironman streak. Then he turned 26 years old and his career went to pot. :(

Your Trevor Linden? I think it's mine Trevor Linden. ;) I wonder if that ironman streak had something to do with his later cliff dive though. That along with getting Keenan'd off to Long Island. Perhaps he played through stuff he shouldn't have played through. Young Linden was quite a physical player.

His 80 points in 79 playoff games in his first 8 year stint in VAN though, along with game 7 clutchness, is not something to sneeze at. He had better/more consistent overall playoff showings than Claude Lemieux, just on worse or slightly worse teams. Linden wasn't drafted as a technically wonderful points magnet (say P. Turgeon, or even Modano), but as a physical all-package heart and soul scorer/leader.

Regarding Lecavalier I'm not an expert as I didn't follow him or Tampa that closely, but when I watched him it often looked like his size was actually a detriment to the game he played or tried to play, and that it just made his movements/stickhandling slower and more awkward.
 

Thenameless

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Apr 29, 2014
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Sorry to disappoint you.

My Trevor Linden also had a disappointing career, all things considered. Everything was hunky dory through his ironman streak. Then he turned 26 years old and his career went to pot. :(

Yes, I grew up in Vancouver starting in the Harold Snepsts days, so I lived through the Linden craze - Smyl x 10? He's still my favourite Canuck. Heart & soul of the team, playoff heroics, he gave his all and that's good enough. Kept waiting for that 100 point season to happen, and it never did. Still, he was our guy. The trade was bad. The new regime were not "Canucks". Broke Linden's heart, I'm sure, and the fans as well. Was happy to see him come back. In one of his late years, he was one of their best playoff performers again - show the young guys how it's done. Nice memories. Makes my all-time team just because he is who he is.
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
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In terms of the tools he had it has to be viewed as a disappointment to a degree. Lecavalier did win and contribute to a Stanley Cup and a major international title however and he did reach an elite level of play for two years. He ended up being less than the sum of his parts however, I guess due to adequate but not elite hockey iq and a compete level that wasn't always at the highest level.
 

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