Was the Lucic - Neal trade actually a win for the Flames?

[ElysiumAB]

You do realize Neal is also signed for 4 more years at 1.25MM above Lucic (Oilers cost with retention). Neal can't score after November. FACT. Look at the last 3 seasons.

You can't say "FACT" on things that are objectively false.

Neal has 65 points after November in the last 3 seasons........

 

[guzzy]

You can't say "FACT" on things that are objectively false.

Neal has 65 points after November in the last 3 seasons........

sorry. Maybe i should have said last two seasons where he went ice cold after November.

 

[blankall]

It would save $3.3Meen after paying part of Lucic's deal vs $1.2M to buyout Lucic. That is money that can be used to turn a potential $5M forward into a $7M forward. It could esily be the difference between fitting in a guy like Taylor Hall or not being able to.

Beyond the cap flexibility Neal has simply been better in his role for the Oilers than Lucic was. By all accounts he has been a leader in the room while it seems Lucic was more of an anchor in the last few years. So while I personally do not really care if the Flames also won the deal it has been a clear win for the Oilers in the short run and provides them with more flexibility going forward.

But....you retained $750k. And you still need to pay a bottom sixer to fill that role, which Lucic is doing very well. And the buyout lasts for twice as long as the actual salary. It's not as simple as buy Neal out...profit.

 

[CupofOil]

And what fan base doesn't do this Cup?

All you have to do is read through one of your game day threads and a player can go from being the biggest piece of **** and needs to be shot into the sun, to the best player on the team if he scores a goal.

The way HFOil flip flops on Nurse on a week to week basis is mind boggling. One day he's the second coming of Pronger, the nest you'd rather have Russel out there.

Not sure why you're going on and on about this point. IT's what fan bases do.....everyone is guilty of it.

Lucic got mocked for not showing up in a single game.. I was one of those doing the mocking.

I'm over it now and can look a the improvements he's been making since that point in time.

That's true but the vitriol towards Lucic by fans and Calgary media was unlike any I've seen in a long time by any market.
I do think a part of that was fueled by the embarrassing loss on the scoreboard and on the fight sheet with Lucic watching it all unfold from the sidelines but I'm just saying it's amazing what a 180 some Calgary fans have made after a few good games.

In any event, you're right that most fanbases do this. Oiler fans are pretty awful in that respect actually. Just look at some of the criticism of the current league points leader when he has an off game, you'd be surprised at some of the hate Draisaitl receives when he has one of his rare "no show" games.. I really hate a certain portion of the fanbase in moments like that.

 

[blankall]

This is what every fan whose team had a horrible player with a NMC said. Didnt happen then and wont happen next expansion draft

I don't think there's a deal in place. I do think Lucic would waive to go to Seattle though. Lucic has already stated that he wants to play close to his home. I don't see Seattle actually picking up Lucic, but I do see Lucic waiving his NMC.

 

[bucks_oil]

Lucic isn't a liability once the puck is turned over. The Flames are giving him mostly defensive starts now. He leads the team in hits and is very difficult to play against on the boards. Despite all the trolling and back and forth here, Lucic is a very solid contributor in the Flames bottom six.

Neal is a PP specialist at this point. He plays with the best PP tandem in the league, but has only managed 6 goals in his last 30+ games. Neal rarely gets defensive starts (36.3%), as the Oilers know that Neal likely won't be able to catch up with the play. No one can dispute the hot start he got off to, but his play has been downright bad since then.

Oilers have Chaisson on the 1st pp, not Neal.

 

[ElysiumAB]

sorry. Maybe i should have said last two seasons where he went ice cold after November.

39 points the last two seasons after November.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think it was definitely a win for the Flames for this season in a vacuum. What they are getting out of Lucic is miles beyond what they would have gotten from Neal.

It is also a win for the Oilers for the same reason.

Beyond this season, we'll have to see. The Flames have a ton more risk.

 

[DJJones]

That's true but the vitriol towards Lucic by fans and Calgary media was unlike any I've seen in a long time by any market.
I do think a part of that was fueled by the embarrassing loss on the scoreboard and on the fight sheet with Lucic watching it all unfold from the sidelines but I'm just saying it's amazing what a 180 some Calgary fans have made after a few good games.

In any event, you're right that most fanbases do this. Oiler fans are pretty awful in that respect actually. Just look at some of the criticism of the current league points leader when he has an off game, you'd be surprised at some of the hate Draisaitl receives when he has one of his rare "no show" games.. I really hate a certain portion of the fanbase in moments like that.

I didn't notice that. Ya some people called him out but generally speaking most people have been pleasantly surprised with Lucic. Expectations were almost nothing so that helped. But compared to Gaudreau and Monahan. The criticism has been almost non-existent.

 

[blankall]

Oilers have Chaisson on the 1st pp, not Neal.

Neal seems to be getting a lot of assists from McDavid for someone who doesn't actually play with him.

 

[blankall]

39 points the last two seasons after November.

Neal actually had a solid 2-3 months in Calgary where he was close to .5 PPG after January. The major problem with Neal is that he only scores while eating up a good opportunity, and there are always better options.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I'm not prepared to say that Calgary WON the trade. But I don't think it's quite as lopsided as it was made out. I think the Neal we're seeing the last 40 games is a better indication of where he is in his career compared to the start of the year.

 

[greasysnapper]

I think so.

The one things the Flames needed was grit and toughness. They were knocked about all last year and in the playoffs. Its no surprise that in his first game, Lucic throws down against Colorado. He's been what they needed.

 

[Khrox]

It wasn't a win for the Flames, it just isn't as bad as it looked.

Edmonton got what they needed. A PP specialist that forces people to either leave McDrai Open to cover, or leave the shooter open, who might chip in a little 5v5 offense.

Calgary got what they needed: Someone to fill a bottom 6 role, that can hit, and chip in with some offense.

Lucic wasn't doing what Neal is in Edmonton. Neal wasn't doing what Lucic is in Calgary.

Neither team won the trade, but neither team lost it. Garbage contract for garbage contract. The advantage is that Edmonton is guaranteed to not have to protect Neal (while Calgary likely *won't* have to, there is definitely a risk).

I like what Lucic brings for the Flames, and he has been better than what I thought he would be BUT, if we didn't have the Neal cap, we probably could have also gotten someone similar to Lucic for less in FA/Trade, so it's not like it's a great deal. Edmonton could have likely got something better than Neal for cheaper as well IF they didn't have the Lucic contract either.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

In the unlikely event that the Flames draft a good player with the 3rd they're likely to get from this deal, I am gonna call this a win though.

 

[TheFinalWord]

We saved .75M, got a 3rd and I would much rather Lucic on the 3rd line than Neal.

I don't really care what Neal does, it's worked out for Calgary. Neal was never going to sniff a second of top 6 time with us.

He'd be 5th on the Flames in points and tied for 2nd in goals with less games played.

 

[DJJones]

He'd be 5th on the Flames in points and tied for 2nd in goals with less games played.

Ya I'm sure he would have exploded on the 4th line.

 

[madmike77]

From the perspective of what Neal brought to the team last year and what Lucic brought to the team this year then yes. Neal was brutal last year. He sucked on the PP and hurt the team 5 on 5. There’s a good reason he didn’t play in their final game., despite being healthy.

Neal has been better this year though. But I’d still rather use Lucic 5 on 5. On the PP Neal is far and away the better player.

 

[Fourier]

But....you retained $750k. And you still need to pay a bottom sixer to fill that role, which Lucic is doing very well. And the buyout lasts for twice as long as the actual salary. It's not as simple as buy Neal out...profit.

Lucic was at $6M. A buyout of Neal is $1.9M. Add in $.750M and you have a $3.35M savings. Even after filling the roster spot you still have $2.5M extra to upgrade the roster. The difference between someone making $4.5M and someone making $7M is quite considerable.

The Oilers may need this space in the next year or two. After that their cap opens up big time if they don't add any big contracts/ becomes

 

[GOilers88]

Nothing has changed about this. It still helped both teams. Everything else is just noise for the sake of argument. This trying to spin some stupid narrative that Neal cooled off and is somehow having a comparable season to Lucic is absolutely Pejorative Slured. I didn't see the toughness or grit from Lucic during any of the BoA games this year despite Flames fans touting him, so I disagree that he is somehow a different, more productive player for Calgary than he was for Edmonton. He looks exactly the same to me.

Nobody won. Nobody lost. It just is what it is. They swapped shitty contracts and Edmonton got a goalscorer and Calgary got tougher.

What I do find absolutely hilarious is that pretty much EVERYONE on HF shat all over Oiler fans for pretty much the entire time Lucic was here. We constantly had to be told how he was the worst player in the league, with the worst contract ever, that could never be bought out and would never be selected by Seattle.

Over one off-season it seems like all of that is no longer relevant and I keep hearing from lots of flames fans how he is quite productive in the bottom six, has brought tenacity and grit, has a contract that really isn't that bad (not as bad as Neal's now), and should pretty easily be made available to Seattle with some minor wheeling and dealing.

Blows my mind how all of that changed over the course of a single summer. Poor Oilers fans.

 

[djpatm]

Lucic wasn't doing what Neal is in Edmonton. Neal wasn't doing what Lucic is in Calgary.

Neither team won the trade, but neither team lost it.

This is the correct answer. Lucic and Neal have both shown flashes of being useful players. Neither are remotely close to being worth their contracts but those contracts weren't going away so both teams are better off than they were last season.

 

[thaman8765678]

A week ago we were ready to send him to the AHL... 3 games does not make a season.

 

[Bank Shot]

If Lucic puts up 30 from the bottom six,.

From the bottom six?

He's getting all his points on the PP.

A good portion of Lucic's points have been completely flukely as well. Like the 4th Calgary goal last night.

He's bad and the contract is unmovable and terrible.

 

[bucks_oil]

Neal seems to be getting a lot of assists from McDavid for someone who doesn't actually play with him.

I didn't say that... but for the last ~2 months he's been off the top PP, but spending about half the games on McD's wing with Kassian... and the other half the games on the third line (with Chaisson or Archibald elevated).

His offense drying up may have more to do with him needing to score at ES vs the narrative that says his contributions are 100% power play. To his credit, he has 7 ES goals and 5 assists...

Furthermore, McDavid doesn't make every player magically produce, case in point... Lucic.

 

[guzzy]

39 points the last two seasons after November.

stunning work. 5 points per month, not including April. Hall of fame numbers for sure