Was Sundin regarded as good as Sakic in 1993?

feffan

Registered User
Sep 9, 2010
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146
Malmö
can we just cut the crap and acknowledge what we're really talking about, which is that *maybe, just maybe* pierre page was yelling at sundin and the rest of his line not because they were european players but because that line was getting ventilated by the habs?

look at the game 4 and 5 box scores and it's clear who was on the ice when the habs were scoring in those one-goal games.
t
I as said think my wording may have been bad. My meaning of that you quoted was not to push Page (or the others...) as anti-european, but that his yelling at Sundin/Rucinsky got the anti-european crowd going. Because Sundin was, to me, unfairly singled out thoose PO:s. What he did awfully wrong as I see it is yelling at the bench on two 21 year old great prospects who are in their first PO:s. That will loose u the team in most cases. Take that behind closed doors, if needed. Or yell at the veterans that don´t get the team together. Even if I think yelling at a team is a card that´s only good if u only use it a few times a season at most.

And apologize for getting defensive as hell, but it hurts when suggested judging people on nationality.
 

feffan

Registered User
Sep 9, 2010
1,949
146
Malmö
Come on feffan, you don't have to be so defensive about it or write a long novel about it. It's not even that big of a big deal.

By the way, "lazy European"? I thought it was mainly "soft European", the old school stereotyping, no? Swedish players for instance, I don't think they've ever had a broader reputation of being lazy, but instead have (and had) a reputation as good hard working team guys who can gel in pretty much everywhere. Perhaps there are different ones (stereotypes) for Swedes, Finns, Czechs, Russians though. The "chicken Swede" stereotype was definitely a real one though.

I remember a good quote actually about Inge Hammarström (by a Toronto guy, Ballard?) where he said Inge could skate into the corner with an egg (or multiple eggs) and come out of it (the corner) with all eggs intact (i.e. not broken). Implying he was super soft, of course. I think that story is funny though, exaggerated or not.

We did have a poster on this board just recently though claiming that 70% of the Europeans in the early 90s NHL were soft (including Mats Sundin, the only player he mentioned by name). When I asked him about more examples of these players (outside of Sundin) he didn't answer me though. I'm still interested to know how he came up with that number though, 70%.

Stereotypes can fly in all different types directions though. I remember the Czechoslovaks had a pretty big reputation as divers (through the Swedish commentators) when I watched international tourneys in the early 90s.
You´re right. On overreaction from me. But it hurt when suggested I judge based on nationality. But bad wording of me started it all.

And right again. The types mainly where Chicken Swede and Lazy Russian, as I remember it. Even if Kent Nilsson kind of was the stereotypical "lazy russian" before Kovalev became the still lasting poster boy for thoose who like to stereotype. The "Europeans have no heart" and "don´t want the Cup as much" was also a thing that mostly Detroit helped to change. Most of all when Lidstrom captained, as the "no european captain has lead a team to a Cup" was a thing for quite some time.

Remember that as well about the Czechoslovaks. I think that was unfairly because of the way they played the game, with the left wing lock. They had a great deal of odd man rushes created because of it and chasing opponents hooked the Czechoslovaks. More called penalty on thoose situation may have caused that stereutype. But that´s just speculation.

Regarding the Hammström story, heres a good read. Inge was quite aware of his strenghts and what he should do to help the team. Sadly Ballard and many others didn´t understand that: Toronto Maple Leafs Legends: Inge Hammarstrom

And I think that is what the poster who made that 70% argument and mentioning Sundin is missing to understand. That a great team has different kins of players that can chance different kind of situations to your advantage. And just like Sundin wasn´t gonna wrestle or fight everyone, that didn´t make him soft. He took constant abuse. And just like the anti Sedin crowd, who doesn´t seem to get what tough treatment thoose kind of players get every night. And to me not reacting to it every single time is really tough.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,590
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t
I as said think my wording may have been bad. My meaning of that you quoted was not to push Page (or the others...) as anti-european, but that his yelling at Sundin/Rucinsky got the anti-european crowd going.

ah, i get what you're saying now. that's a fair point.

Because Sundin was, to me, unfairly singled out thoose PO:s. What he did awfully wrong as I see it is yelling at the bench on two 21 year old great prospects who are in their first PO:s. That will loose u the team in most cases. Take that behind closed doors, if needed. Or yell at the veterans that don´t get the team together. Even if I think yelling at a team is a card that´s only good if u only use it a few times a season at most.

yes, i think even pierre page himself has admitted that it was a mistake.

And apologize for getting defensive as hell, but it hurts when suggested judging people on nationality.

sorry for putting words in your mouth. i honestly didn't mean to.
 
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feffan

Registered User
Sep 9, 2010
1,949
146
Malmö
ah, i get what you're saying now. that's a fair point.

yes, i think even pierre page himself has admitted that it was a mistake.

sorry for putting words in your mouth. i honestly didn't mean to.

Thanks for the excuse. As said. Sloppy writing from me wich lead to the misunderstanding.

Would be interesting to read if there´s a Page quote about it out there. Gonna give it a google later on. Always intteresting to read what coaches see as mistakes when they overreact or try to turn the tide.
 

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