Was signing Karlsson and letting Pavelski walk a big mistake?

[ismelofhockey]

I don't necessarily think they need the 1st rounders with their drafting and development success, but I do think that is a ton of depth, and personally I'd rather have the shipped out side than the Karlsson side. But there are some intriguing new pieces that I think will turn heads soon. Bergmann and Yurt are both 21 and are playing solid defensive games. The Sharks euro scouting department has been very good the last couple of years. Simek was a helluva find That no one is talking about outside of Sharks circles. Once he's back I think he'll continue to gain notoriety.

I agree. I just believe it's unrealistic to expect Simek, Yurt, Bergmann or Chmelevski...etc. to be able to jump in and have an outsized impact right away. The Sharks'll likely need a year to adjust, and then they'll be back to their normal selves. Had they not traded most of their recent first rounders, you could expect those players to maybe already have a year or two under their belts and be ready for bigger roles.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I think it's fair to assume that this is a transition year for San Jose.

In acquiring Karlsson, and in the time since, the Sharks have shipped out:

Pavelski
Braun
Donskoi
Tierney
DeMelo
Balcers

Nothing critical, but that's a lot of depth. What makes that more problematic is that in the past 4 drafts, the Sharks only have one first round pick still in their system: Merkley. Nor do they own their 2020 first rounder either.

It's tough to lose a lot of depth when you don't have first rounders to make it up. So this year might be tougher than usual.

Erik Karlsson and 5 replacement level players>>>>>>>The 6 players you mentioned.

 

[CupsOverCash]

If the choice is Karlsson and Pavelski Im sorry you take EK every time.

 

[IceNeophyte]

IMO the days of the Sharks making the playoffs every year and winning a round or two are over.

I don't think the decision to sign Karlsson and letting their heart and soul captain is getting enough attention.

I think the Sharks made a big mistake.

This should be a poll, and the options should be "Yes" and "Definitely"

 

[Voight]

Oh, we'll see. We have SJ's 1st this year.

For who was a top 5 defenseman at the time of the trade, they should have got more, even in a contract year.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Guys like Pavelski is easier to come by then offensive weapons like Karlsson. You also have to understand the difficulty of obtaining guys like Karlsson vs getting players like Pavelski. No shot against Pevelski btw, as he is a great leader, but Karlsson all the way.

Through two games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, -4
Brent Burns, through 3 games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, -3

Pavs through three games, 0 goals, 1 assist, +2

 

[ismelofhockey]

Erik Karlsson and 5 replacement level players>>>>>>>The 6 players you mentioned.

There's a limit to what even Erik Karlsson can do, and that's assuming he even stays healthy. I think that for the long run the Sharks have made the right choices, but I also think they sacrificed a little of the present to get there. I think they'll need a big year from Jones if they want to stay at the top of the standings this year.

 

[SpezDispenser]

For who was a top 5 defenseman at the time of the trade, they should have got more, even in a contract year.

They didn't, but that doesn't change the fact that we have SJ's 1st rounder - and we don't know what will happen this year.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

There's a limit to what even Erik Karlsson can do, and that's assuming he even stays healthy. I think that for the long run the Sharks have made the right choices, but I also think they sacrificed a little of the present to get there. I think they'll need a big year from Jones if they want to stay at the top of the standings this year.

There’s a limit to what Pavelski, Donskoi, Braun, Tierney, Balcers, and DeMelo can do and it’s less than what Karlsson can do even when Karlsson is playing through severe injuries.

 

[Kcb12345]

Sharks just haven't adjusted yet to not having Pavelski, especially on the PP and it really shows. Meanwhile the Stars haven't figured out how to use Pavelski on the PP.

But you easily take Karlsson over Pavelski. Biggest downside to that though is Karlsson's term and that contract probably won't look too good pretty soon here

 

[ismelofhockey]

There’s a limit to what Pavelski, Donskoi, Braun, Tierney, Balcers, and DeMelo can do and it’s less than what Karlsson can do even when Karlsson is playing through severe injuries.

You're being unnecessarily defensive. I'm not saying that they would be better without Karlsson. Read my posts again, and you'll see that the point I'm making is that it might take a year for them to reload after losing so much depth and not having first rounders to make up for it. They might see a small dip in points this year, but they'll be back at the top by next year anyhow.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

I think it's fair to assume that this is a transition year for San Jose.

In acquiring Karlsson, and in the time since, the Sharks have shipped out:

Pavelski
Braun
Donskoi
Tierney
DeMelo
Balcers

Nothing critical, but that's a lot of depth. What makes that more problematic is that in the past 4 drafts, the Sharks only have one first round pick still in their system: Merkley. Nor do they own their 2020 first rounder either.

It's tough to lose a lot of depth when you don't have first rounders to make it up. So this year might be tougher than usual.

All of those players, save Pavelski and Tierney, have been replaced by players that appear to comparable or better so far.
Ferraro > Braun
Yuri ~= Donskoi
Demelo ~= Prout or Heed
Balcers ~= Bergmann or Radil

I don’t know about you, but if the net result in terms of talent is Erik Karlsson in, Pavelski and Tierney out, you take that every day of the week.

The issue is PDBs system. It was fully designed around having D men funnel pucks at the net and for tips, IE perfect for Pavelski and Burns.

We now have a much faster and skilled team and PDB refuses to change the system to suit our roster and instead wants players to play against their strengths and adapt to his system.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Theyre in complete win-now mode

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Why? Seems like a great problem to have, to be honest.

I don't think Karlsson/Burns should be looked at as the problem so far. From what I've seen...

• Vlasic's steep decline removes the shutdown stud they once had
• Where have Timo Meier, Tomas Hertl and Kevin Lebanc dissapeared to?
• Both goalies are sitting under .900 sv%...not the be all and end all but not a good start

I am not sure they match up well down the C with other top teams, though. That's where Stastny/Hayes/Tavares would have really helped. Not sure if Joe would have stayed if he was put on the wing, though.

Those would be reasons in support of it’s a bad signing, no? I don’t think it is, but walking through it:

1. If you think Vlasic is already declining, then the only guy insulating Burns and Karlsson from the harder minutes is out, and you’ll have to start using EK more like he was in Ottawa.

2. Hertl and Meier will be fine I think but LaBanc et al aren’t the kind of difference makers/depth that will be able to take over the top-6.

3. Ek is regularly at or near the bottom of his teams in on-ice save percentage so signing him with a goaltending weakness doesn’t solve that.

I agree with you that Karlsson/Burns aren’t at all the problem and ARE SJ’s marquee players right now but they don’t seem to be part of the solution for any of the above either.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I think for San Jose's immediate window, it would have made more sense to not re-sign Kane and keep both Karlsson and Pavelski (if the cap is a bit off, just get cheaper on expendable positions like bottom 6 and depth defenders). I get why they went with Kane, to extend their window for the new core of Meier, Hertl, and Labanc. But for the next two years or so, Pavelski would have given them a better shot.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Team Pavelski wakes up after losing 3 in a row and beats a top team in Capitals, Joe seen pumping up the bench during the game.

Team EK headed for 4th loss in a row while EK turns it over to seal the deal for the Preds.

There's one player who has missed the playoffs once in his career and one player who has never made the playoffs in consecutive years. Guess which is which

Not saying the Sharks should have kept Pavs over EK or anything like that though.

 

[lawrence]

Through two games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, -4
Brent Burns, through 3 games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, -3

Pavs through three games, 0 goals, 1 assist, +2

Eliass Pettersson 2 games 1 shot on goal 0 points, maybe it's time we trade him for Pavelski?

 

[IceNeophyte]

Eliass Pettersson 2 games 1 shot on goal 0 points, maybe it's time we trade him for Pavelski?

Absolutely!

 

[serp]

Eliass Pettersson 2 games 1 shot on goal 0 points, maybe it's time we trade him for Pavelski?

Deal ! No backsies. Doubt Pavs waves the NMC though .

 

[lawrence]

Deal ! No backsies. Doubt Pavs waves the NMC though .

that's too bad.

Absolutely!

faxed it in the deal already, waiting on your end. I will tell Elias to pack his bags.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Karlsson starts slow literally every year. There no point in having this discussion this early in to the season.

 

[Puckstop40]

EK is having a really rough start to the year but I would still take him over Pavelski. Sharks overall have looked rough. I’m not complaining though

 

[tiburon12]

Karlsson starts slow literally every year. There no point in having this discussion this early in to the season.

EK is having a really rough start to the year but I would still take him over Pavelski. Sharks overall have looked rough. I’m not complaining though

Seems like what's killing him this year is that when he skates the puck up on a breakout, he has no support. The forwards seem to like to fly the zone at the first chance the Sharks gain defensive possession, so by the time our D, particularly Karlsson, can skate it out, the forwards are out of real estate. Then he has to make risky plays because his options are so limited......and then those risky plays result in turnovers and odd-man rushes. There has to be better support.

He certainly hasn't been flawless (check that Forsberg goal today), but he has looked really good in terms of zone exits / entries and creating space for himself. much better than he did this time last year.

 

[fEyD08]

They already have an offensive minded defenceman. Karlsson is redundant on that team.

Karlsson is lost defensively. Don't care how many points he gets, he is not someone you win with if he's out there against other teams best players. He can't be sheltered because the Sharks really don't have any great defensive defenceman, and no Vlasic isn't it.

He really is nothing special defensively. You can add Burns to that list too . Vlasic lost his game years ago and Jones will never be a solid goaltender. Labanc and Kane are not two way forwards. So you have too many questionmarks defensively in the top six overall. Last year they overcome that
with great offensive production.
I agree that starting 0/4 has also something to do with bad coaching but right now they are not very well assembled.
Trading for Karlsson allows trading one of Vlasic or Burns. That opens up an extension for Pavelski and Nyquist and the return for the trade, whoever that would be.
Not trading for Jones means you have a 1st round pick in 2016, another player you could add to that lineup. It´s not out of question that holding on to Reimer in 2016 would have been the better choice.

Doug Wilson probably tried to replicate Anaheims defense when they had Pronger and Niedermayer but both were smarter defensively. Thats just speculation on my side.

 

[HabsQC]

This is even worse than the other OP saying the Sharks should've signed Marleau.

Lol this aged well